railfan619 wrote:Good Afternoon everyone i was wondering something. I saw a cop car today with someone pulled over and he had his ditch lights flashing. Like all emergency vehicles today have ditch lights on them from fire trucks to ambulances and even cop cars. So my question is did the railroads come out with them first or did the manufactures of emergency vehicles. Like oshkosh truck here in wisconsin. The maker of fire trucks and people that manufacture of cop cars and other emergency equipment manufactures. I have been thinking of this for a while but i never actually had the time to do this. Thanks for any input on this subject.
I believe you are confusing ditch lights and strobe lights.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Those are typically refered to as wig-wags on emergency vehicles. The actual headlamp flashes. Strobes are strobe bulbs put in beside/near the headlight, which emits a high intensity flash. Strobes are more visible up close, but the wig wags are more visible than the light bar and other emergency lighting most of the time, especially from any distance. As for which came first, I googled it, and could not find any easy results. My guess, emergency vehicles had them first, making use of the already present lighting.
Blue-streak: I didn't know ditch lights were used back that far. Neat, you learn somehting every day.
Nagrom1 wrote: My guess, emergency vehicles had them first, making use of the already present lighting.
As a long-time student (and user) of emergency lights, I'll take a hack at this.
Alternating high-beams (wig-wags) in emergency vehicles date to the mid-sixties - when bubble-gum machines were the normal warning light. The circuit drawing appeared in a police magazine of the time - I still have the one my father built and installed in one of our local patrol cars. In those days of simple vehicle wiring, the whole thing consisted of an alternating flasher unit (available at your local auto parts store) and a couple of heavy duty diodes. The diodes allow the high-beam switch to override the flasher - a handy feature at night, since the flashing high-beams create a really interesting landscape.
Today's circuits are self-contained and are often capable of multiple flash patterns and dealing with different types of vehicle wiring.
As noted - it is one of the most effective warning systems available, out performing even the brightest lightbars. As far as you can see headlights, you can see wig-wags.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wow, I may have been even the slightest bit right, lol. Do you have any ideas when ditch lights appeared on trains? I too thought the came about in the 70's, for grade crossing protection.
In Europe, they have had a 'triangle' light configuration that has been standard for many years. In North American, either CP or CN started experimenting with 'ditch lights' in mountain territory in the 70's. This allowed the crew to identify rock slides easier. By the mid 80's, I remember seeing BN SD60M's with a pair of small strobes mounted on the pilot deck. By 1990 they were the current 'rage' for safety devices, having replaced the yellow roof beacon. The government eventually stepped in and set regulation on their use.
As a railfan, I always liked the sweeping Mars light, but I beleive these are even better. They really get noticed by the public at grade crossing(the main point). In 1997 my son and I were railranning the WC on a foggy morning south of Fond du Lac and the flashing ditch light really made a difference at the grade crossing - Sold me!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Here is a link to ditch lights a long, long time ago:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~animato/3003/3003bb.html
railfan619 wrote:So my question is did the railroads come out with them first or did the manufactures of emergency vehicles.
Not exaclty an answer to your question but some good trivia.
CN locomotives have long featured unique features, unlike the stock EMD and GE locomotives. CN introduced a wide-nosed four window "Comfort Cab", the predecessor to the now standard North American Safety Cab. After a BC derailment, CN introduced ditch lights, lights mounted on or just below the anti-climbers on the front pilot of a locomotive. These are arranged in a "cross-eyed" configuration, to make trains more visible at grade-crossings, and to give better visibility around curves.
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_National_Railway
First railways in North America to use ditch lights were CN and CP circa 1952. First U.S. railway to adopt them was Alaska Railroad in the 1980s.
I suppose you could call the European headlamp pattern "ditch lights" but I am not sure they served the same function as in North America, which was (first) to light the sides of the track to give better indication to enginemen of obstructions on the track, and (second) to give better warning to motorists at grade crossings.
RWM
Railway Man wrote: I suppose you could call the European headlamp pattern "ditch lights" but I am not sure they served the same function as in North America, which was (first) to light the sides of the track to give better indication to enginemen of obstructions on the track, and (second) to give better warning to motorists at grade crossings. RWM
I don't believe that the european's had headlights mounted on the top of the front, or in the center of the boiler front, so no, those are not ditch lights, just headlights.
Christian
MONONC420 wrote: Railway Man wrote: I suppose you could call the European headlamp pattern "ditch lights" but I am not sure they served the same function as in North America, which was (first) to light the sides of the track to give better indication to enginemen of obstructions on the track, and (second) to give better warning to motorists at grade crossings. RWM I don't believe that the european's had headlights mounted on the top of the front, or in the center of the boiler front, so no, those are not ditch lights, just headlights. Christian
Before WWII, European trains had two headlights mounted above the buffer beam, just oil lamps in some cases, but in the 1950s Germany introduced a system of three electric lights at the front of each train arranged in a triangle as a symbol of a train. This included steam locomotives which carried the third light at the top of the smokebox.
As late as the 1970s French locomotives had only two lights except for locomotives which were permitted to run in Germany on cross border trains.
These days most European locomotives have the three lights, but they were never intended as ditch lights.
My first recollection of Ditch Lights were those on the British Columbia Railway when I visited Vancouver in 1986.
M636C
I hadn't noticed it much before, but on my more recent fanning trip to the Folkston Funnel late last year, I became acutely aware that all the CSX NB I saw had that triangular configuration: up in front the traditional front light(s), then at lower left and lower right (but not right on either edge or too close to the track) were two flashing lights, which I guess, drawing on knowlege from this thread, would be "wig-wag" strobe type lights of the "cross-eyed" variety. There's enough of a view to the south to see the head engine's first main lights appear, then the "ditch" type lights coming over a slight rise. At first the wig-wags don't appear to be flashing; once they do you know the train is getting pretty close. (Looking to the north the track curves slightly and there isn't enough distance to see the several different steps of how the lights appear).
"Wig-wag" itself: I wonder if that term first came from emergency vehicles, or from Santa Fe grade-level crossings of the 1930s and 1940s?? - a. s.
In my experience, CSX only uses the "wig-wag" when approaching crossings. I'm guessing the function may be somehow tied to the bell. Maybe csxengineer will 'chime' in on that for us.
Some railroads don't use the alternating flash at all. If MSTS is to be believed, BNSF uses it all the time, but I doubt it.
Slightly off topic, but after I read about CN's cross-eyed ditch lights back in the mid 90's, I went out & bought a set of white fog lights for my car. I installed them at outside corners under my bumper and aligned them so their beams crossed in an X pattern about 100' ahead. It really did help me see around curves at night whilst driving some of our tricky PA mountain roads. Yea CN
Prolly not legal
The USFRA made "Ditch Lights" federal law, mandatory starting in 1997 (any locomotive used @ speeds greater than 20mph). Many roads had some type of secoundary lighting and warning lights prior to this...example- FEC had a 2 additional lights mounted below the headlights that were aimed "cross eyed" lighting up the ditches. The lights alternated (wig-wag) at all times.
FYI- Federal Signal sold a light bar in the 60's & 70's (Visabar)that "wig-wagged"(rotating alternating flash pattern) that actually had a crossbuckle and lights on it's name plate.
WC engines had the ditch lights flash when the bell was turned on. Blowing the horn also turned on the bell.
CSX and NS engines seem to have the flashing ditch lights hooked up to the horn. After the last horn sound, they flash for another 10-15 seconds, then burn steady. UP engines seem to burn steady all the time.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.