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starting a locomotive....

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starting a locomotive....
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 4:12 PM
how do they do it, being as it is such a big engine i would assume you wouldent be able to use an electric starter as on other diesel engines or do they ?
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Posted by petitnj on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 4:21 PM

For the DC locomotive, the Generator can be rewired as a large motor. A special set of contacts from the main battery leads to the generator rotor and field. These are activated by the "start" switch on the locomotive control console. Once the motor rolls over a couple of times the cylinders start to fire and it starts. Once started, the electrical setup is changed so that the starting contactors cannot be closed again while running. If the locomotive is very cold, a little ether in the air intake will help start the thing. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 4:25 PM
cool thanks just curious
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Posted by cnwfan51 on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 6:44 PM
   You havent lived until when after firing up a sd40=2 it cranks over there is a very loud bangand a flame about 20 feet shoots out of the stack  That will wake up  the dead   Larry
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Posted by trainboyH16-44 on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:27 PM
^ Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

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Posted by bigboy4024 on Wednesday, March 5, 2008 8:25 PM
on the old plymouth at rollag minesota that i used to work on we used air to star the very tired allace chalmers engine
have safe and happy steam season
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Posted by wabash1 on Wednesday, March 5, 2008 9:11 PM

 cnwfan51 wrote:
   You havent lived until when after firing up a sd40=2 it cranks over there is a very loud bangand a flame about 20 feet shoots out of the stack  That will wake up  the dead   Larry

well i guess i aint lived cause i have never fired up a sd-40 then cranked it over again after its fired and got a bang and a flame.  i have never had a reason to recrank one if its running. and have never had one shoot flames out the stack like a ge does

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Posted by stmtrolleyguy on Thursday, March 6, 2008 1:59 AM
On a locomotive scale, how much is "a little" ether to get it started?
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 6, 2008 7:00 AM
idk prolly a few good squirts maybe?
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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, March 6, 2008 7:19 AM

If our Road foreman of Engine ever saw you anywhere near one of our locomotives with a can of ether, you'd probably have to learn to walk with the can in a really uncomfortable location...

If your dumb enough to spray ether on the air intake filter, then you really don't need to be anywhere near any mechanical device more complicated than a manual can opener, and that might be a little too dangerous for you...

 

Like Wabash, I guess I aint never lived.

After years and years of starting SD40-2s, I have yet to have one shoot flames out the exhaust stack...had a few that smoked it up a lot when they finally started, but un like GEs, they don't flame on...of course, it might be that I am not spraying enough ether in the air intake.....Wink [;)]

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 7:37 AM

Maybe that's what the "E's" stand for ed. 

General Ether
and
Ether Motive Diesel

Shock [:O]

Dan

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Posted by wabash1 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 7:38 AM
any squirt of starting fluid is to much,
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 6, 2008 10:14 AM

i dont see the big problem with ether

i use it to start my freightliner in the winter when it gets ignorant just a little squirt in the aircleaner does it, but you dont un-load in the thing

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 10:34 AM
TRX - Just for the heck of it - do you know what the displacement is in a modern Diesel-electric locomotive?

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Posted by Railway Man on Thursday, March 6, 2008 10:42 AM

You can use ether to assist in starting a locomotive.  But it's a bad idea.  By the time you put in enough to do any good, you're getting close to having enough to blow the airbox covers off an EMD.  Some shops/railways prohibit the practice.  Better to warm up the engine with salamanders and charge the batteries.  Since locomotives are rarely shut down in cold weather, it's rarely an issue.  If you're shutting them down in warm weather and the batteries are too weak to start the engine, then get new batteries!

Original question was about starter motors.  EMD D.C. main generator locomotives up through the 567 used a starter winding built into the main generator.  That no longer was feasible when EMD changed to an A.C. main generator, so two D.C. starter motors were applied to the side of the crankcase, gear-driven to the flywheel.

RWM 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 6, 2008 11:01 AM

idk what th displacement is exactly but i know that you can jump down into the cylinder

 i can see where it would be a bad idea for that large of na engine maybe im too used to the old 3406B CATs

who makes the engines in them an yway?

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Posted by jvanorder on Thursday, March 6, 2008 11:34 AM
Even on a 3406 cat ether is not a good idea
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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 11:55 AM

 TRX450R racer wrote:
..who makes the engines in them anyway?

EMD and GE each make their own prime movers.

For EMD, the model number is the displacement of each cylinder.

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Posted by Railway Man on Thursday, March 6, 2008 12:18 PM
 TRX450R racer wrote:

idk what th displacement is exactly but i know that you can jump down into the cylinder

 i can see where it would be a bad idea for that large of na engine maybe im too used to the old 3406B CATs

who makes the engines in them an yway?

Even in my skinny days I could not jump into a cylinder.  An EMD 567 is 8-1/2" bore, 10' stroke; a 645 is 9-1/16" bore, 10" stroke; and a 710 is 9-1/16" bore, 11" stroke.  The model number is the displacement in cubic inches per cylinder.  567s were offered at various times in V6, 8, 12, and 16 configurations, 645s in V8, 12, 16 and 20 configurations; and 710s in V12, 16 and 20.  EMDs have crankcases, not blocks, fabricated out of weldments and castings.  EMD crankcase series to date (all two-stroke) are A-G: 567A-D, 645E and F, 710G. 

EMD also offers a 4-stroke engine, the H series.  Not common and not widely accepted in U.S. locomotive practice.  The designation is 265H, with 10.4" bore and 11.8" stroke.  The 265 refers to the cylinder bore in millimeters.

Caterpillar, Sulzer, MTU, and others have made attempts to supply engines to the North American heavy locomotive market with very limited to absolutely no success to date.  Small switching locomotives made in the past, and gen-set and hybrid locomotives manufactured today, have used just about every manufacturer of diesel and large gasoline engine there's ever been, including Buda, Cooper-Bessemer, Cummins, Caterpillar, Allis-Chalmers (which bought Buda), and Hercules.  I don't recall ever seeing a Mack, IH, or Detroit 53 or 71 in a locomotive, but Detroit 110s powered Budd Rail Diesel Cars.  

RWM

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, March 6, 2008 1:07 PM
 Railway Man wrote:

.  Better to warm up the engine with salamanders and charge the batteries.  RWM 

I have seen salamanders in use in restaurants, but have no clue what they are in reference to an engine.  Care to explain? 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 6, 2008 1:35 PM

 jvanorder wrote:
Even on a 3406 cat ether is not a good idea

yea it not a good idea if youre a total moron., you dont unload in the air cleaner just a little squirt  maybe not even that, its not going to hurt anything the only way its going to hurt anything is if you put to much in it and it will blow the head, but then again that is if youre a total moron Wink [;)] or you can not use ether and just crank it until it gets warm but i dont think anyone has the battires for that ESPECIALLY in the cold in wich that is when you use ether

as for the salamander it warms up the block of the engine so it makes it easier to fire 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 2:04 PM
 Mookie wrote:
 Railway Man wrote:

.  Better to warm up the engine with salamanders and charge the batteries.  RWM 

I have seen salamanders in use in restaurants, but have no clue what they are in reference to an engine.  Care to explain? 

They are frequently used in construction and other temporary heating situations.

Disclaimer - I'm not plugging this particular brand - it just happened to come up when I did a Google image search.

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Posted by Gambi80 on Thursday, March 6, 2008 5:43 PM

I like to call it a torpedo heater...if you can see the resemblance. 

Ether should be more or less a last resort.  There's no substitute for a block heater. 

Quite a while ago, I watched a dude start a SF B40-8W at the Galesburg Railroad Days...he did something with the rocker arms before cranking it over...maybe someone could clue me in on why he did that.  After that, he pulled a couple foot long lever and it cranked over and started...a relatively quiet uneventful process.  All that just cause it was getting too hot out and he wanted the air on.

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