Hi all,
Can anyone tell me what's going on with this line? I've gone railfanning along this line (between Grand Rapids and Fennville) a few times in the last few months and each time I've seen nothing. I've been going on weekdays between 5 and 9pm, which is usually the time that I can catch an empty coal train or a mixed freight, but lately I haven't been able to catch anything. The last time I went I noticed that a pair of crossing gates had been installed at 138th Ave and a new signal had also gone up. Is CSX preparing for more traffic though this area (hopefully)? Any info is appreciated. Thanks.
The new signal is interesting--can't see that unless it replaces one or more old ones (adjustment of block length).
CSX in Michigan, in my opinion, may have been dealt a death blow when most of CP's overhead trains went to NS instead. I don't think that any through Chicago-Detroit business goes this way any more--in fact, our traffic to Grand Rapids is routed most of the time via Toledo.
As always, the Chicago-Detroit line can be divided pretty much into two parts, with Grand Rapids in the middle. My suspicion (and that's all it is right now) is that one of these two segments is doomed to be cut. The question is which one is the weaker link--the one to Detroit, with its old trestle at Grand Ledge, or the one to Chicago, with its killer (in Midwestern terms) grade out of New Richmond. I'm not sure Amtrak is in the equation--if CSX wants to get rid of its line between Chicago and Grand Rapids, they could run the Grand Rapids train via (or out of) Kalamazoo instead (provided NS or the new Michigan Central allows it).
Fact is, Michigan is probably still overbuilt in terms of mainline trackage, and something's going to give. And of the three major routes across the state, CSX's is the one that's now least able to justify its existence.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I am so used to there being at least one train every two hours on the GTW now CN mainline that when I have been to the Lake Michigan side of Michigan it always seems like a miracle when a CSX freight rolls through.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
CShaveRR wrote: I'm not sure Amtrak is in the equation--if CSX wants to get rid of its line between Chicago and Grand Rapids, they could run the Grand Rapids train via (or out of) Kalamazoo instead (provided NS or the new Michigan Central allows it).
I believe I have seen 2 or 3 maps over the last dozen years in Trains magazine showing Amtrak's Pere Marquette running to Grand Rapids through Kalamazoo. Kevin Keefe is from Michigan (?), perhaps he has seen the future ?
CShaveRR wrote: The new signal is interesting--can't see that unless it replaces one or more old ones (adjustment of block length).CSX in Michigan, in my opinion, may have been dealt a death blow when most of CP's overhead trains went to NS instead. I don't think that any through Chicago-Detroit business goes this way any more--in fact, our traffic to Grand Rapids is routed most of the time via Toledo.As always, the Chicago-Detroit line can be divided pretty much into two parts, with Grand Rapids in the middle. My suspicion (and that's all it is right now) is that one of these two segments is doomed to be cut. The question is which one is the weaker link--the one to Detroit, with its old trestle at Grand Ledge, or the one to Chicago, with its killer (in Midwestern terms) grade out of New Richmond. I'm not sure Amtrak is in the equation--if CSX wants to get rid of its line between Chicago and Grand Rapids, they could run the Grand Rapids train via (or out of) Kalamazoo instead (provided NS or the new Michigan Central allows it).Fact is, Michigan is probably still overbuilt in terms of mainline trackage, and something's going to give. And of the three major routes across the state, CSX's is the one that's now least able to justify its existence.
The new signal is part of a project to replace the code line on the route. All I can say is the faster the better, right now as it is, the dispatcher can only line one signal at a time. The line also goes into code fail anytime a small storm goes through. The project will go into full swing in the spring of 08.
As for the future of the line, lets look at it in the sections you describe. Right now east of Grand Rapids there are 10 to 12 coal trains a week going from Porter to the power plant at West Olive. These are 18000 ton monsters that require a push at Helper, a neat little operation. Word around the office is that the plant will be expanded soon, and that coal traffic will double. There is also a ethanol plant planned between Riverside and Kirk, that will add couple of trains a week. There is a good amount of local business at Holland, so much so that a daily road job is stationed there. There is also 1 Amtrak that goes each way a day. One of the killer things about a Chicago to Grand Rapids routing, is that as it is now traffic needs to go over the NS trackage from East Curtis to Porter. The NS is not known for taking trains right away. Now, I have heard that CSX wants to put in a diamond at Porter, to connect to the Porter branch, and has even bought land at Porter for this construction. If that is true I do not know. However I think that the West Olive coal traffic alone will keep this track around for long time.
East of Grand Rapids is a different story. Right now there are two trains each way a day from Grand Rapids for both Toledo and Detroit. As for local traffic there is a small coal plant at the MSU campus in East Lansing. It gets switched a couple times a week. There are two large grain elevators, one at Grand Ledge, and one at Weberville. Lansing gets a little traffic, along with numerous small industrys between Grand Rapids and Fox.
Traffic that travels the entire line from Porter to Plymouth is a pretty light. Right now there is CP hauledge train ,X500, that runs five days a week. There is also the occasional coal train or rock train that runs from Chicago to the SBS at Flint. If and when a diamond gets put back in at Porter, I think there is a future for this line.
An "expensive model collector"
Thanks to both of you for pointing out that things aren't as dire as I was saying. That's actually a relief to hear, as I became fairly familiar with this line by riding its passenger trains in the year or so before Amtrak took over.
I know that the West Olive trains at one time came to the plant via Toledo and Grand Rapids. That's probably not practical any more, with the coal coming from the west and--if the rumors are true--an increase coming.
Who serves the power plant in Lansing? I noticed that they got their own (leased) coal cars recently, but when we get coal for Lansing, we always route it via CN.
I wonder what makes that particular area of Berrien or Van Buren County desirable for an ethanol plant--haven't seen much corn production around there.
CSX and predecessors have used the line from Porter west to Pine or thereabouts for roughly the past 100 years, since PM built the line from New Buffalo to Porter. Has it just become worse since the Conrail breakup? If that's the case, I hope that the diamond can be built at Porter.
We have been discussing this on a local Indiana forum on Yahoo. There seems to be indications that CSX has purchased land in Porter and have plans to connect the CSX line with the NS line east of the old Porter Tower about 1/2 mile. There will not be a diamond, but the CSX WB trains will have a junction from their line to the NS, then use the existing turnout to the Porter Branch.
This will certainly cause delays to the NS flow of traffic, which is very substantial at this time (I hear it is up to 100 trains/day). I will get the address of where the turnout is to be, as it has even been posted using Google maps. You can see the fence in place where the turnout will be.
ed
n012944 wrote:The power plant in Lansing is served by CSX. I guess the cars are handed over to CSX from the CN at Lansing, since I have never seen a coal train terminate at Lansing.
CSX handles the traffic to the MSU power plant all the way from Russell, KY. Most cars are routed through Q-trains up to Lansing with Q327 handling the final leg from Detroit to Ensel Yard where the cars are set out for the Lansing Yard job to spot at the plant. If the coal comes via a unit train it will normally carry symbol W339 or W502.
CShaveRR wrote: I know that the West Olive trains at one time came to the plant via Toledo and Grand Rapids. That's probably not practical any more, with the coal coming from the west and--if the rumors are true--an increase coming.
The coal that is routed via CN goes to the Lansing Board of Water & Light's Eckert Power Plant southwest of town. Some trains also run to the Ottawa Power Station along the Grand River near downtown Lansing.
CSX and predecessors have used the line from Porter west to Pine or thereabouts for roughly the past 100 years, since PM built the line from New Buffalo to Porter. Has it just become worse since the Conrail breakup?
cnw8835 wrote: CShaveRR wrote: I know that the West Olive trains at one time came to the plant via Toledo and Grand Rapids. That's probably not practical any more, with the coal coming from the west and--if the rumors are true--an increase coming.West Olive still recieves eastern coal via CSX from Toledo. Maybe 2 or 3 trains a week at most. Who serves the power plant in Lansing? I noticed that they got their own (leased) coal cars recently, but when we get coal for Lansing, we always route it via CN.The coal that is routed via CN goes to the Lansing Board of Water & Light's Eckert Power Plant southwest of town. Some trains also run to the Ottawa Power Station along the Grand River near downtown Lansing.CSX and predecessors have used the line from Porter west to Pine or thereabouts for roughly the past 100 years, since PM built the line from New Buffalo to Porter. Has it just become worse since the Conrail breakup?Definently worse. I know of a few westbounds waiting for 5 hours recently to get onto NS.
Thanks, John! I should have known that Lansing could have more than one power plant! I think the new train's reporting marks are LBWX.
If you want more information on the status of Amtrak's Pere Marquette trains (currently running on CSX to Grand Rapids), go to the link below which notes the potential change to the Kalamazoo route (then the new Michigan Central to GR from Kalamazoo, I presume).
http://www.marp.org/
Tom
The routing of service to Grand Rapids via Kalamazoo is part of the Midwest high-speed rail network plan. It would run the trains via Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids to a terminus at Holland. Eliminated would be stops at Bangor and St. Joseph, and the stop at New Buffalo would move to Amtrak's Detroit line (this change is in the works anyway, and makes sense as far as serving the community is concerned).
One thing about the line that hasn't been mentioned so far was a proposal (don't know if or how much progress has been made) to operate commuter service between Chicago and St. Joseph. Sounds bizarre in a way, but Metra already has routes this long out of Chicago.
Suburban service to St. Joseph has a precedent of sorts. Until 1963, South Shore ran a connecting bus service between Michigan City and Benton Harbor/St. Joseph.
Alot of good info in here. I work just north the Waverly yard in Holland and ther is still alot of traffic in htis area. If anyone knows of a place to find track diagrams for the line from the Wyoming yard to Waverly let me know this is an area i was considering modeling
Jason
Since the weather was not great this morning, I went out on a photo scouting mission. When I arrived at Porter Junction, there was heavy trackwork being done by NS at the west end of the plant. There were turnout sections staged along the ROW. I don't know if this work is related to the topic of this thread, or not.
I did not notice anything (except a new bungalow) along the east end of the plant, which is where a new (speculated) CSX Grand Rapids Sub connector would be installed. I plan to keep an eye on this, since the Porter Branch goes through my backyard. It could mean more photo opportunities.
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