Military Trains

Hey kim,
Can't say I have ever seen an actual military train in Canada. Closest would have been a few flats with military gear loaded on. This all in mix with general freight. When we had the "Flood of '97'" our city was inundated with military equip. from everywhere. The military had joined in the effort of aiding our disaster. Why we had so many tanks on hand???....I have no idea. We were building dikes. Hauled many loads of stone myself in the effort. CN has a line running south of the city and they had to put a string of hoppers on the bridges to avoid washouts. Further south the line was under water! A feverish effort and hats off to the military for their help. We survived. Generally in Canada we seem to run "Convoys" on the highways....not the rails. Later eh...Brian.

Well I have not only seen many military trains but I have been on one.

A long time ago, I was a fully trained infantry signaler in the Australian National Service (national circus) and after that we had to do 3 years in the CMF Citizens Military Force. Thats what I was doing on a troop train going from Wagga Wagga in South West NSW (New South Wales) to Mt Royal in Singleton central northern NSW for war games.

I was newly married at the time and my wife was staying in Sydney with her mother while I went to play war games. The train I was on stopped near a big rail centre in Sydney for about an hour; and I was only about 2 miles (we weren't a metric country then) from my mother in laws place and never in my life, before or since have I felt more like not doing my duty and getting off, to do what i wanted to do instead of my duty.

rgs

Private Ian.

Military trains of the type ya'll have been mentioning are mostly relics of the Second World War. I know that the U.S. Army has a few locomotives, but I can't remember seeing a pure military train.

I did, however, notice military equipment en route to ports for deployment. I imagin if the US was engaged in some sort of "total" war on the scale of WWII we would see such trains as meaures of security.

OK, from a military person -- no, the U.S. military no longer has military trains -- everything is now leased from commercial sources such as TTX. The purely military trains lasted into the early 1970s here at Fort Huachuca, Arizona, because I remember seeing U.S. Army engines, both steam and diesel, and military crews still running in and out of the fort back then. The last U.S. Army engines I recall ever seeing were being leased to the SP shortly before the UP takeover. A few manufacturers still produce models of U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, and U.S. Army tank cars, ammunition box cars, missile carriers, etc., but the military does not provide the locomotive crews. More recently, when a unit from Fort Huachuca was deployed to Iraq, their vehicles were either airlifted out on C5A cargo planes or were driven to Tucson and put on TTX flat cars for transport to the coast and loading aboard ships. The personnel all flew out.

Thanks guys,
What was throwing me was the USA trains flat car with 2 Humvees on board. These are a modern vehicle so I thought they had modelled an actual flat, I think this is what they call modellers licence.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Well, Humvees on flat cars is not too out of reality, since they have to be moved from the factory to military posts somehow. I have seen trucks carrying Humvees running along I-10 in SE Arizona, as well as SP (and now UP) trains with military equipment heading to or from the National Training Center in California; but the trains were not exclusively military cargo with military crews, they just had military equipment mixed in with their other cargo.

They're still out there, guys. 1-1/2 weeks ago I was driving from TX to L.A. and came upon an EB UP on the Sunset route that was a solid train of humvees and military ambulance vehicles in chocolate chip (desert) camouflage paint.

And somewhat off topic but very relevant, given that it's nearly D-Day + 60, my hat is off to any of you on the forum who rode some of those trains, fought for our freedom and hit those beaches in 1944--and for all the rest of you vets and current service personnel as well. Thanks for a job well done![bow]

To the best of my knowledge there is only one remaining reserve Army rail transportation unit still in existance. These units were originally activated for use overseas. During my active duty days in the Navy I clearly remember seeing operating military railroads at Norfolk Naval Station, Norfolk Naval Shipyard, Charleston Naval Shipyard & Charleston Naval Weapons Station. These were USN locomotives, USN & common carrier freight equipment. These trains were operated by civil service employees. On Oahu, every major military installation had it's own rail system. The Naval Magazine used its system until the early 70's. The only remaining portion of the Oahu Railway and Land Company main line is still in existance due to its military use for ammunition handeling.

Hi kimbrit
Don't think they run much military stuff around AUS well I havn't seen any.
I would think it would be kept Hush Hu***hough.
The idea of running WD trains sounds interesting
The idea of a train load of male and female MK1 tanks or perhaps something as late as the early 30's appeals but I would probably have too make the tanks.
Might have to make a trip to a friend of mine he will probably have the books.
some one in the UK does 16mm arlillery amunition I recon that could be got away with in G.
Don't have a derailment though[swg] could get messy
regards John

I was not sure then of just what a military train was the one I was on was a Troop Train and it did not belong to the Army it was just hired from NSWGR (New South Wales Government Railways) I think, what would they do with it wheni wasn't there?

Rgs ian Kawana

Cheers again guys, welcome to the forum to Jeff who has come in with an interesting little railway, Oahu Railway & Land Company. I shall be searching the net for that. I just wonder if in America there is a switch yard somewhere in an isolated camp that's full of freight cars, just waiting, just in case. Military minds thinking the way military minds do.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

NBSR ran military equipment transfers from Camp Gagetown a DND base in
the central part of the province.86 ft flat cars were loaded with every kind of
military equipment from tanks to armoured personnel gear.the trains were hauled
by multiple enginges ranging from GP-7R to GP-38-3.s.

I read where in the seventys there was accident at a old Southern Pacific
yard which was vertualy destroyed by ammo that was mishandled.I also
read of American DOD freight cars not fit for the road.

God Bless Ronald Raegan

David Brown

Just wondering, what scale are the tanks and Humvees? 1/32 Newray diecasts I suppose?

Kimbrit: want to see BRITISH military trains? I was in Moose Jaw ,Sask. (very large divisional point of C.P.R.) when a 95 car train (flats) with all Brit. vehicles came through on their way to train at Suffield, Alberta. Light Tanks ,APC's, wreck recovery, ambulances, big and small trucks (lorries) etc. etc. in the middle were 3 cabooses and the end had 2 cabooses, this was for heavily armed army staff, I also believe this was one of 3 trains on this excersize. The troops were flown to Calgary and bused to Suffield.

Nice one Tatans, thanks very much for this. I didn't realise that we had enough military vehicles left to fill a 95 car train! Opens up interesting modelling possibilities though and a good reason for owning a CP loco. Very much food for thought.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

I'm in the US Army and although not directly involved in trains while on Duty I have encountered them.

One of the places I have encountered them is Ft. Eustis,VA. They have an excellant museum w/ German RR equipment, Us Army equipment (including 2 steamers) most of which had been used on post. Ft Eustis is the home of the Transportation Corps and they still run a school in the Summers for soldiers to become qualified railroaders.
the Ft still has 5 locomotives (in 2002) and a well equiped shop. The shop is mainly used for the storage of locomotives nut also for repairing soda machines and refridgeraters plus lawnmowers.If a car need to be moved civillian employees drive over from the nearby Navy Base.

Thanks Army, a little bit more info keeps appearing. I should think the summer school is popular, I would love to enroll on something like that. Have you done it?
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit Nice one Tatans, thanks very much for this. I didn't realise that we had enough military vehicles left to fill a 95 car train! Opens up interesting modelling possibilities though and a good reason for owning a CP loco. Very much food for thought. Cheers, Kim [tup]

Kim,
If you go that route make sure that loco is very dirty. Looks to me like CP has given up washing their equipment all together! Was sitting at a crossing in my Mc Rig yesterday waiting for two trains to pass...everything was VERY grimy. Time for them to clean up their act! Later eh...Brian.[;)]

The Army's Summer School for trains is for soldiers who are training to be railroaders for the military.
There is only 1Railway Operating Battalion in the US Army and it is in the Reserve. It is located in CT. I tried to get into this unit but couldn't at the time. The unit is quite popular with railfans as they do a lot of good will work at museums.

During Wartime this Unit [the 1205th TROB (transportation rwy operating battalion)] has been activated to run the railroad at the large ammo docks in Sunny Point, SC (the MOTSU) (Military Ocean Terminal SUnny Point). Presently the unit has 2 locomotives of there own, EMD GP-9's/10. they are painted red and yellow (Regimental Colors of the US Army's Transportation Corps).

Right now the US Army seems to have chosen the versatile GP-9 and it's various rebuilds(GP-10, GP-16 , GP-11, etc.) as it's standard locomotive. THe Army has recieved them from a number of sources, CSX, VMV (Illinois Central's former Paducah Shop) Conrails Juniata Shop (before the CR breakup). The army also has a few GP-38's and 40's too. They also have a few switchers hanging around, General Electric 80 ton Center Cabs mostly, with some other models about.

Up until a say maybe the 90's some real gems were out there at Military bases. SOme bases used Baldwins (Air Force and Navy Mostely) Davenports, plymouths, Alcos, GE, EMD and even some Fairbanks Morse!!! Many modesl too. Most of these locomotives were in regular use.Many were in great shape due to low use and TLC.

As of right now most of the Army's locomotives are painted up in the red and yellow paint, although there still are some black and yellow locomotives out there.

The Army also has a fleet of Yellow boxcars with red doors for ammo (I've never actually seen these used). For flats the military uses a mixture of civillian flatcars (mostely Trailer Train/TTX) and some recently aquired TTX flats and some more substantial olive drab DODX (Dept. of Defence) flatcars with 6 wheel trucks. For the loading and unloading of these flats it isn't anything fancy. It is done the old fashioned way with ramps "Circus Style".

Up into the 50's one base (the Aberdeen (MD) Proving Grounds) used a Doodlebug (Gas-Electric Self-propelled Passenger Car) for what I'm assuming was some sort of connecting passenger service.

Well Kim and all others reading I hope I've provided some interesting Food for thought.

-Willie the Army Train Guy

oh yeah the Army also until the 70's loved the idea of having "exportable" locomotives.
That is locomotives with lower clearance "European Profile" for the lower clearances commonly found overseas and with variable guage wheelsets . The smaller size offered by the lower profil also made the locomotives easier transported. If I can recall they could be adjusted for narrower than standard guage up wide guage (read 5 foot for Russian RR's). They also came equiped with european "hook" couplers w/buffers. A good example of thie type of locomotive is the ALCO MRS-1 and the EMD MRS-1. Some of these ended up on the Alaska RR later on.

THese locomotives mostely never left the States and languished in storage for years. Many times when a base needed a locomotive one of these would be pulled from storage and put into use. From what i have heard they proved to be very unpopular with crews.

Some MRS-1's also ended up being loaned to the Hew Haven Railroad (New York, New Haven and Hartford RR) when floods and a Hurricane nearly crippled the ailing RR, in 1955. The Locomotives were borrowed in August and November 1955 and were returned to the Army between Feb. and June the next year. From what I understand these units were mistreated while on the NH and were sent back to the NH by the Army for repairs!

The Army also has had narrow guage diesels too. At least one was tested/used on the Denver, Rio Grande and Western(3 Ft) in the 50's. I'm not sure whether it was the railroad testing it out to see how they liked it or if it was the Army just training (no pun intended).

During WWI Germany, England, France, and the US made extensive use of 1ft 11inch guage (60 cm) trains to run an extensive network of ever changing trench RR's. WW1 ended a lot quicker than the US expected and subsequently found itself with a huge stockpile of nearly new 60 cm trains. These were used to build "utiliy lines" around various bases in the United States the most notable was at Ft. Benning Georgia. One of the locomotives (a 2-6-2) was preserved and is prominately at the Forts museum.

Well I suspect that you will find this interesting too.

Jolly good show !!!!

-Willie the Army Train Guy

Willie,
Wow, that's a great lot of info. I'm most certainly going to do myself a yellow boxcar with a red door. Anybody got any pics of this ammo carrier? It looks as though these miltary units were in excellent condition throughout their life, did they go to preserved lines when they were retired, or scrapped? The loco's for european service with adjustable wheelsets, well that speaks volumes thinking back to the cold war days! Once again, thanks very much Willie, I shall start looking for pics on that ammo car.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Hey Kim,

I just checked some of my photos, and the yello ammo boxcars are 50 footers, some smooth sided, "waffle sided", and some ribbed. On some of the cars the yellow has almost faded to an off-white, while the red has faded to almost a pink . They are Clearly marked "United States Army" on the right side of the door in red lettering (all caps) w/ reporting marks in black to the left USAX 29---. These cars also have a clear placard noting the fact that they contain explosives!!!
I have also seen older 40 ft boxcars painted Olive drab with white "USA" repoting marks and in older photos they had rather extensive lettering including the Transportation Corps crest.

Now as for the older equipment yes some of it has ended up on other railroads and in mueseums but as always is the way much of it has been scrapped. Many of the Locomotives were also transferred to other government agencys(Alaska RR, DOT). Some the Alco RSD-1's designed and used during WWII in Iran were transferred to the Department of transportation. They were extensively used at thier test track in Pueblo, Colorado as switchers. A few of the RSD-1's were "destroyed" there in the 70's. In a test to prove or disprove the survivability of the containers containing spent Nuclear Fuel which might encounter a train at a RR crossing the unmanned MRS-1's were accelerated at high speeds into a truck containing the container by the use of Solid Rockets!!!!!!

I must say Kim this is an awesome subject you came up with it is making me rember stuff I hadn't thought about in a long time!!!!

Thanx,
-Willie


























[V][V]

British military trains do still exist. Was in Redhill yesterday and a DRS 37 pounded through with four VDAs and a long string of Warflat and Warwells behind it loaded with Land Rovers and small APCs. if you go anywhere near Salsbury and places like that you will see Warroirs and Landies being transported by rail still. Its only things like the Main Battle Tanks that cant go by rail because they are too large and heavy to fit on the national network. Most British military trains tend to be van trains carrying parts, ammunition and supplies becasuse our loading gauge is too small to allow much larger things to be carried.

Hi
Was watching Breakheart Pass the other night they had what looked like converted?? wood box cars as bunk cars for troops till they got unceromoniosly dumped off a runaway track..
How acurate is that description of troop cars or did they use propper coaches.for moving troops
regards John

Contrary to an earlier assertion, this US military does indeed still have military trains.  Not troop trains of the WW II variety, but it has a large fleet of rail cars for interchange service and numerous bases with their own motive power and civilian crews.  This is from a former military person who actually worked on military railway equipment.

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