Speed Control

[spikejones52002]

Before they had direct communations with the cab and conductor.

Did they have a way to tell an engineer to speed up his train?

There is/was Green to Go, Yellow to say slow down, and red to stop.

Did they have a way to tell a engineer to speed up, he is holding up traffic in Mid route?

[cprted]

Train speed was largely dictated by timetables (schedules) and train orders, of which the head end would have a copy.

[spikejones52002]

My question is , What if the Engineer could not obtain, maintain or just not  do requested speed. They were holding up traffic behind them.

I know once the engineer passed a station with telegraph. They would receive train orders to increase speed.

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

There was (and is) no way of telling an engineer to speed up his train.  Speed is governed by the employee timetable, speed restrictions issued by General Orders or train orders, etc.  Signals convey track occupancy (block signals) or switch alignment (interlocking) and will indicate that reduced speed may be necessary in conformity with the operating rules and timetable but do not advise the crew beyond that.

[ndbprr]

Your assumption is that trains are being run at distances apart that would allow one to get a red block behind another train.  This would be an extremely rare occurance.  I have read accounts of second sections of passenger trains running so that a signal just cleared before the second section got to the signal but the speeds are determined by several rules and the only occasion I can think of where a train would hold up a following trains would be for a mechanical failure, derailment or track problem. 

[traisessive1]

CN likes to run their trains with just enough power to get over the road. You will frequently see trains all over who cannot make track speed, there for holding up trains who maybe can, behind them.

[csxengineer98]

speed limits are posted by signs.. time tables.. train bullitens.. dispatchers messages.. and restriced equipment handeling rules.. the lowest speed will govern the train movement.. if an engineer is "bulling" as we call it..not realy much anyone can do.. might be asked by a RFE at the end of the run to awnser some questions why he was going slower then speed allowed...now i cant speak for back in the old days..but now a days all we got to say is i was going at a speed i felt safe at or something like that..and there isnt much they can do to you.. they cant fire you for going slow..they can for going over the speed...

csx engineer 

[Deggesty]

According to the Rock Island Uniform Code of Operating Rules effective May 1, 1950, one of the communicating signals (rule 16) that the train crew could send to the engineer was "reduce speed." This signal was indicated by four short blasts on the communicating system, which had a separate air line connecting the engine and the passenger, express, and mail cars. There are other signals listed in this rule book, including start, stop, back, increase train heat, shut off train heat, look back for a hand signal. I have a memory of seeing in the Southern rule book of about 1943 a signal telling the engineer to increase train speed; my memory may be faulty. The signal(s) to change speed did not override the speed limits set in the operating timetable or in a train order or bulletin. The engineer was to answer any signal sent over this system with the appropriate blasts of the whistle/horn.

[route_rock]

 Waaaayyyy back when a con could come up over the tops and whack a hogger with his lantern and say " Pick it up!"Yeah those were the days when someone could tell an engineer to pick it up.The timecard was printed with a certain average speed. Lets say the redball had to make a 45 mph average between stations,then that crew better get it done and not be off.

 

  I have some old timetables from the Rock where they give average speeds like that. So you as a shipper or passenger can figure the average and know when youll be there.I have a rule book from 1910 that says an engineer will run safe,efficent and timely. Old Railroad pulp books tell the "true tales of the rails" sections where engineers would tell stories of making up time,told by an official" We need to get these cars through on time or we lose the contract so go man go".So yeah in those wilder days you could do that.

  CSX engineer is correct,cant fire me for going slower.But pull my tapes and I am speeding?Well go and get your time Casey its been good knowing you.I have run 3 under the limit or more and caught other guys who are running slower either cause they are scared,or trying to rack up some overtime.Not every Hoghead has ice in his veins ( we all act like we do but I prefer luke warm water keeps me humble)and even if the DS is yelling at you asking why your not going track speed,you can tell him my favorite." Well with 2 locos 120 cars mostly loads and I am going up freaking hill, I have asked my conductor to get out and push but he says no".They usually leave you alone after that.

[garyla]

An in-law of mine was once a Tucson-based SP engineer.  According to what he told me, the only prodding he ever got was an occasional radio question asking if he was "having trouble with his power," or some such.  And this was probably only when he was driving one of the high-priority freights. 

After all, didn't SP really stand for "Shortage of Power"?

[tomikawaTT]

An engineer would always try to travel as fast as his locomotive would let him - subject to the limitations of speed limits, slow orders, restricted-speed curves etc.

It is the dispatcher's responsibility to hold slower trains as necessary to allow faster trains to pass them.  Back when, this was either written into the employee timetable or handled by issuing train orders.  These days radio communications, remotely-controlled switches and remotely-controlled signals get the same result.

For more than you ever wanted to know about Timetable-Train Order (and early CTC) operation, read Rights of Trains by Peter Josserand.  Fair warning - it's a heavy read!

Chuck