Logging Flat Cars

[Anonymous]

Since recently changing over from Ho to N scale, I have decided to make a lohhing set up on a 4x6 board. I have a basic Spectrum train set to get started and a logging mill building by Cornerstone. My problem is in finding logging flat cars with or without stakes. Atlas had some but are sold out and informed me they will not be making another batch for quite awhile.
Anyone know of a source for the flat cars?

[vw-bug]

I model in HO an have just cut and filed off the ones on the cars I own. It is just easier than having to look all over for a supplier

[Jetrock]

If you are modeling logging operations, look for logging disconnects--essentially two single-truck cars that have the logs lashed to them. Most logging lines didn't use flatcars as they often were not long enough to hold the logs (how do you carry an 80 foot log on a 40 foot flatcar?) and disconnects were lighter and more flexible.

Logging in N scale? That would be pretty space-saving--logging equipment is traditionally pretty small even in HO. I designed (and started building, before I jumped ship to trolleys) a HOn3 logging line that fit comfortably on a 2'x3' board--basically a loop with a hill on one side (spur ran up around the edge of the hill at a 10% grade) and a small logging mill at the other with a two-car enginehouse. A 4x6 board in N scale should provide you with quite an empire.

What era are you modeling? I know a touch about California logging lines from the 1880's to the 1940's or so, mostly on the Northcoast.

[Anonymous]

Jetrock, I havnt thought about an era yet, but the 30's or 40's sounds like a look at, just as long as its steam. Thanks for the replies so far men, got my thinking a bit more about my options.

[Jetrock]

Anytime before the mid-Forties would mean steam. If you're planning a logging layout, ideally you'd want traction engines like Shays, Heislers and Climaxes, or some of the smaller rod engines (2-6-0's and smaller) of the woodburning type--do they even make those in N scale?

30's and 40's logging, at least on the west coast, would probably mean standard-gauge engines (most narrow-gauge lines had thrown in the towel by then) and the heavier geared locomotives like the aforementioned Shay and Climax.

I'm not very familiar with N scale (my main experience was in converting an N scale "Dockside" into an HOn3 logging switcher that would be impossible to represent in N scale) so I may be out of the loop on what sort of logging-appropriate engines can be found..

[Anonymous]

Since I live in Colorado, I think the best research would be found locally at the library.
However I'm not sure that much logging was done in this area, but I'll find out. It probably would involve narrow guage.
A lot of logging was done to clear trails, ski resorts, and older mountain home developments and ranches. Don't think railroading was involved that much.

[Jetrock]

Depends on your area--I understand there's a very good railroad museum in Golden, which probably has a library, but I don't know how far you are from there.

Colorado had a few logging lines--from the reference I have (Logging Railroads of the West, by Kramer Adams) there were about ten--most were small, less than 20 miles, mostly in the period from around 1900 to the 1940's--though there was one started in Denver (the Arapahoe, Jefferson & South Park Ry.) in 1868!

Narrow gauge is probably the way to go--while I don't mean to criticize your decision to model in N scale, they really don't make logging motors for your scale (as I mentioned above.) HOn3 might be a good choice, with the bonus that your track's curves can be as sharp (or sharper!) than N scale mainline curves. Buildings are twice as large but most small lumber-line mills weren't huge to begin with. I know there is Nn3 stuff out there, but probably still no logging/geared locos and it's rare and expensive. If you've already made a significant investment in N scale track and engines you could always kitbash an HOn30 line.

One option you might consider if you want to stick with N scale, especially with a Forties or later setting, is originating traffic FROM the lumber mill, shipping out planed lumber, rather than TO it, with a truck/tractor based logging operation visible in the woods behind the mill.

It would certainly be possible to free-lance a standard-gauge N scale logging operation, though. Get a couple books about railroad logging and take a look at logging disconnects--they're very, VERY simple. With an N scale truck, a few inches of scale lumber, a coupler and a couple styrene bits, you could build your own logging disconnect trucks in minutes for a buck or two each--then just strap on some "scale logs" (either from the hobbyshop or some sticks harvested from your own backyard) and you'd have a very serviceable disconnect logging car for nearly nothing! Combined with a couple of N scale steam switchers (0-4-0 Dockside, 0-6-0 tank engines) or maybe a few antiquated and ill-used 4-4-0 Americans as motive power. it's feasible to imagine the old beasts running as late as the twenties or thirties, picked up for a song by some cheapskate logging company, held together with baling wire, prayers and rust. You'll want to stick to the smallest N-scale engines possible, though, to manage those snaky logging-line curves.

After that, all you'd need are some camp cars (I'm sure they're out there and they're easy to scratchbuild) and N scale flatcars for carrying logging equipment and it's time to start building mountains and trees!

[Anonymous]

Jetrock, Thanks for all the info. As I am somwhat of a beginner in model trains and have done research on logging outfits thru the train museum in Golden, , I believe I'll go with a destination type logging set up. I would like a woodsy and mountain looking set up going thru forest etc.
That type set up I can come up wiyh plenty of freight cars for. Problably look like a regular freight train with 4 or 5 lumber carrring freight cars.
Thanks again for all the ideas, Jerry

[Anonymous]

Highflyer,

I have a logging branch on my 1920's layout and I use Bachmann "Old Time" flat cars converted with Micro Trains Arch Bars and couplers. Stakes were a problem (always busting) until I started using solid strand wire with the insulation painted to look like wood stakes. They are glued in placed into the stake pockets and they never break, just bend. I operate so I need to "load" and "unload" my logging flats. The wire stakes are great because I can bend them out a bit, pull off the logs, then I have an "empty" and visa-versa. I have seen plenty of pictures depicting empty logging flats with the stakes still in the pockets.

As far as steam 'N' scale logging locos, take a look at Small Scale Logistics, Aspen Models and Republic Locomotive Works. Atlas is also going to release an 'N' Shay![:)]

[Jetrock]

An "N Shay? Whoa....that would be interesting to see. I wonder how long it would take the HOn30 crowd to kitbash it...

wow! The stuff on that Small Scale Logistics site is neat indeed...they sell an N-scale Shay kit, and logging disconnects for $10 (tho they need couplers and trucks) a pair.

The HOn30/HOn3 stuff is fairly neat too...but it's definitely good to know that there is stuff out there for the N scale logging-railroad enthusiast. The Nn3 stuff is almost too tiny for words...