Atlas Turnout Tips

[grandeman]

Here's a repost from "another" forum. I thought maybe someone here might be able to use the info. They need to look quick, it'll be on page 28 soon enough. [V]

Hi all. We had many "problem" turnouts on our RR and, since we use the common Atlas turnouts, I thought I'd pass along the "fix" we found. I've been an Atlas turnout user for many years (used them as a kid) and am not knocking their product. They are a good product at a good price. Plus, I love that "S" turn logo I remember as a kid...[:p]

We had derailment problems with several of our Code 83 and 100 turnouts. The problem seemed to be more persistant with the Code 83 turnouts and their related twin coil switch machines. Derailments in hidden staging are a real pain! After investigating the cause, here's the simple fix I found for them.

In this "before" pic, you can see that the points have moved together in the switch rod. This causes the points to fail to make proper contact with the stock rails. No contact = drailments... :(


Here's a before shot with the NMRA guage to further illustrate the problem. It's obvious how much the points have closed together in the switch rod.


Our fix, as stated above, is very simple. Using .012" sheet styrene (brass shim stock works too, but is harder to work with), cut appropriately sized shims to correct the point spacing. I don't bond ours in place because they slip under the switch rod's mount and stay securely put. Since the turnout pictured is in staging, I didn't bother to paint the shims. On scene shims can be easily hidden with a little paint.


The after pic...


The NMRA guage makes the improvement apparent.


Happy railroading! [:)]

[CFournier]

Look's like a good idea! Thanks Grande Man

[SpaceMouse]

Good tip. Now go tell me about Atlas turnouts on my post. [:D]

[grandeman]

Space, I did reply to your post. [8D]

As for the Atlas turnouts, our SD7 (with properly guaged wheels) will sail thru a tuned Code 100 #4 at a scale 400 mph...[:D]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man

[b]our SD7 (with properly guaged wheels) will sail thru a tuned Code 100 #4 at a scale 400 mph...[:D]

I got a Lindberg S! that'sll whoop that.[^]

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, seriously, splain it to me.

It looks like what you are doing is forcing the spacing between the points. Will too narrow a gap cause a derailment?

Humor me here. How's that happen?

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Okay, seriously, splain it to me.

It looks like what you are doing is forcing the spacing between the points. Will too narrow a gap cause a derailment?

Humor me here. How's that happen?

When the points aren't the correct dimension (to close together) the switch machine doesn't have enough travel to allow contact between the point and the stock rail. This causes a train passing over to "split the switch" for lack of a better term. Hope that helps...

[SpaceMouse]

K

I get it.

[loathar]

Thanks for this tip. I've noticed this problem on mine and was trying to figure out a fix gor it.

[selector]

Chip, in other words, the point rails are held at a given spacing by virtue of their mutually permanent contact on that sliding plastic 'tie'. However, when you activate the mechanism to snap the switch to the other side, that plastic spacing tie can only travel so far. Unfortunately, it isn't far enough to permit solid point rail - stock rail contact BOTH ways. One, maybe, but not both ways. So, the fix is to dislodge the points from their "tie-plates" and force them a mm apart with styrend plugs that keep the new wider spacing. Now, when the mechanism is activated, the sliding tie still has the same function and parameters, but the points themselves do not have to travel quite so far as before, and they make better contact onboth sides of their travel arc.

BTW, this is not a problem in my wide radius EZ-Track snap switches, but I do have to file the points. Once that is done, they are near perfect...well, except for their frogs, and the fellow at Fast Tracks says the commercial switches have their frogs filled with metal or plastic to help the flanges ride the wheels through the crappy frogs.

[emdgp92]

Here's another way to solve the "lack of travel" problem. Dump the twin-coil switch machine...and fit a Tortoise instead :p

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92

Here's another way to solve the "lack of travel" problem. Dump the twin-coil switch machine...and fit a Tortoise instead :p

That's great, but the turnout still doesn't meet NMRA specs unless the shims are installed.

[jrbernier]

I can see that you spread the points out with the shim on the throwbar. It seems to me the 'real' problem is that the switch motor does not have enough 'throw' to force the points against the stock rail.
The other issue I can see from you pictures is that there appears to be NO 'slot' cut into the cork roadbed under the throwbar - the throwbar may 'stick' and not slide 'free'. The Atlas switch machine does not have a lot of power at the end of that rod, and may not be able to move a throwbar that is dragging on the cork roadbed. All of my turnouts have a 'slot' cut into the roadbed below the throwbar assembly. I also use Tortoise switch motors which have a lot of 'over-travel' since they are a 'stall' type of switch motor.
A friend uses Caboose Industries 'N' scale ground throws on his HO layout(they look better), and had a similar problem as they do not have as much travel. He did something similar to your shim, but added 5 minute epoxy to hold the points out at their maximum position on the throwbar.

Jim

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

I can see that you spread the points out with the shim on the throwbar. It seems to me the 'real' problem is that the switch motor does not have enough 'throw' to force the points against the stock rail.
The other issue I can see from you pictures is that there appears to be NO 'slot' cut into the cork roadbed under the throwbar - the throwbar may 'stick' and not slide 'free'. The Atlas switch machine does not have a lot of power at the end of that rod, and may not be able to move a throwbar that is dragging on the cork roadbed. All of my turnouts have a 'slot' cut into the roadbed below the throwbar assembly. I also use Tortoise switch motors which have a lot of 'over-travel' since they are a 'stall' type of switch motor.
A friend uses Caboose Industries 'N' scale ground throws on his HO layout(they look better), and had a similar problem as they do not have as much travel. He did something similar to your shim, but added 5 minute epoxy to hold the points out at their maximum position on the throwbar.

Jim

Hi Jim. Actually, the throwbar is free moving without the roadbed relief. The twin coil machine has enough travel, IF, the points are within NMRA specs. Problem is, the Atlas throwbar doesn't properly maintain point alignment. Our twin coil switch machines/ Atlas turnouts are 100% reliable with this minor tuning mod. Since I modified the turnouts, we've had zero problems. Occasionally though, some sap will run a train over an improperly thrown turnout... [:I] That's another problem altogether though. [:D]

[jxtrrx]

Thanks Grande Man. Helpful stuff. Good to see you back around here.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

This is very interesting. I use Atlas turnouts and have not had such trouble, nor have a number of others I know who use them.

A few observations if I may.

The REAL problem appears to be that the round plastic pins in the underside of the throw bar have been damaged or the tabs on the points have become bent allowing the points to come loose from those pins, or both. After examining both installed and uninstalled turnouts I found all of mine to be very secure and was unable to duplicate this problem without damaging the throwbar.

Could it be possible the plastic pins have worn off from repeated use with twin coil switch machines? Even rather weak ones like those Atlas sells? I use slow motion machines and my own home made ground throws, so I have data on that possiblity.

Fact remains, as desgined the points are held in correct position by the pin on the underside of the throwbar. The condition shown in the photo is only possible if the throw bar pins are no longer in the holes on the point tabs.

Finding out why this has happened would have been my first step in correcting or repairing it. Becuse of the slip lock nature of this design, I'm not sure I see how the little shims are working?

Is it possible you have some defective throw bars? How many turnots have been effected?

As an additional note, I have removed and reveresed a number of Atlas throw bars and still not had any such problems.

Sheldon

[Texas Zepher]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

This is very interesting. I use Atlas turnouts and have not had such trouble, nor have a number of others I know who use them. A few observations if I may. ...

Some interesting observations; however, I doubt the questions asked will ever be answered.    This post was from several years ago.  I've not seen Grandman post on this forum for years now.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Texas Zepher

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

This is very interesting. I use Atlas turnouts and have not had such trouble, nor have a number of others I know who use them. A few observations if I may. ...

Some interesting observations; however, I doubt the questions asked will ever be answered.    This post was from several years ago.  I've not seen Grandman post on this forum for years now.

I understand, I posted this here and in a related current post about turnouts that referenced this post.

Sheldon

[cordon]

I had a similar problem with a couple of brand new Customline No. 6 switches.  Either the tiny plastic pin on the throwbar was defective (not big enough) or the tab on the point was bent.  The pin would pop out of the hole in the tab upon activation either manually or electrically.  I bent the tabs towards the throwbar and the pins stayed in the holes.  Of course, I couldn't have done that so easily if I had discovered the problem after laying the switch. 

Thanks for the info.  I will remember OP's proposed repair in case that ever happens to one of mine.

  

 

[WSOR 3801]

 I had one no.6 out of the box that the tab on the point wouldn't stay in place on the throwbar.  I drilled out the throwbar, no. 61 or so, and put a track nail in to hold things in place.  I chopped off the nail on the bottom, which also helps hold things in place.  Also made sure the cork was clear of the whole assembly.