kasskaboose Does anyone know the record for most responses to a thread?
Does anyone know the record for most responses to a thread?
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Tin Can II Sheldon nails it. The drop ship piece is the deal breaker. No distributor is going perform extra services without charging for those services. The extra cost will kill any meaningful discounts. Add the extra time to drop ship, and any competitive advantage the original MTS had is gone. And as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources. I dealt with Walthers, Great Planes, and Horizon as distributors at my shop. I made inquiries of Lifelike (not owned by Walthers at the time) to buy direct. Sure, they would be glad to do so. Provide proof that I had bought $40,000 worth of Lifelike products a month for six months from my distributors, and then Lifelike would sell me $40,000 worth of stuff moving forward. That is a LOT of product and a lot of cash. I doubt that I sold $40,000 worth of Lifelike products in the three years I was open. Hattons may be experiencing a similar issue, with slightly higher inventory requirements, and they may have significant cash issues.
Sheldon nails it. The drop ship piece is the deal breaker. No distributor is going perform extra services without charging for those services. The extra cost will kill any meaningful discounts. Add the extra time to drop ship, and any competitive advantage the original MTS had is gone. And as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources.
I dealt with Walthers, Great Planes, and Horizon as distributors at my shop. I made inquiries of Lifelike (not owned by Walthers at the time) to buy direct. Sure, they would be glad to do so. Provide proof that I had bought $40,000 worth of Lifelike products a month for six months from my distributors, and then Lifelike would sell me $40,000 worth of stuff moving forward. That is a LOT of product and a lot of cash. I doubt that I sold $40,000 worth of Lifelike products in the three years I was open. Hattons may be experiencing a similar issue, with slightly higher inventory requirements, and they may have significant cash issues.
Alton Junction
BigDaddy I've read on another forum that from an anonymous source that worked at MTS until the end that Intermountain was in the running.
I've read on another forum that from an anonymous source that worked at MTS until the end that Intermountain was in the running.
Intermountain stated on another forum that;
"We've read with slight amusement that InterMountain was somehow involved with the past few months happenings at MB Klein. Perhaps people that used to be involved with InterMountain made an offer for Kleins but the current ownership (almost a decade now) and team had nothing to do with the happenings at Klein. We were involved in no way; none. Just want to end the speculation and rumors. "
An "expensive model collector"
Ken Patterson had a guest on his weekly podcast / YouTube show from the UK who made an interesting point. She compared Hatton's in the UK to TrainWorld here. TrainWorld are "the closeout kings" and Hatton's apparently was the same - they specialized in buying overstock items from manufacturers, and selling them at discounted prices. However, in recent years, manufacturers have shifted to pretty much only making enough product to cover pre-orders; the days of overstocking items and the resultant sales kinda ended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5iI6i2ZkFk
wjstix Ken Patterson had a guest on his weekly podcast / YouTube show from the UK who made an interesting point. She compared Hatton's in the UK to TrainWorld here. TrainWorld are "the closeout kings" and Hatton's apparently was the same - they specialized in buying overstock items from manufacturers, and selling them at discounted prices. However, in recent years, manufacturers have shifted to pretty much only making enough product to cover pre-orders; the days of overstocking items and the resultant sales kinda ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5iI6i2ZkFk
And TrainWorld has shifted from the "closeout" business model to everyday low prices like all the other bigger discount web dealers.
Sheldon
"There’s a reason why we at TrainWorld.com are known as the “Closeout Kings” of the model train industry."
https://www.trainworld.com/model-train-sale.html
I'm sure that TW still has a "close out" element to their business, but with pre-order and limited productions being the norm now, I'd think that manufacturers would have few times where they ever produce more product than can be sold....at least not a lot of excess product by which a retailer can survive on.
- Douglas
While they've adjusted some of their retails up, they still have some great deals. You just need to watch the site and stay on the mailing list...
nealknows While they've adjusted some of their retails up, they still have some great deals. You just need to watch the site and stay on the mailing list...
Yes, they still have great prices just like always. And they still have closeouts, but the whole dynamic of that has shifted with the advent of preorders and smaller production runs.
Years ago I remember buying undecorated Proto2000 FA1/FB1 sets for about $59, the retail was about $159
The latest word is that Joe Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it.
Regards, Ed
gmpullman The latest word is that Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it. Regards, Ed
The latest word is that Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it.
Rich
Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement?
What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's.
Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS?
AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS?
Au Contraire!
https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/
https://www.facebook.com/MBKModelTrainStuff/posts/pfbid02jNf5mh9haThG375Vtoq9zRWNqJwRYMraNohu2DPKeCUhVhg7vsEKhivV2j6N85SDl
richhotrain AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS? Au Contraire! https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/
And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true? And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
AEP528 richhotrain AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS? Au Contraire! https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/ And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true?
And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true?
AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
AEP528And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available.
And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman.
I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH.
Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website.
Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH.
Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse?
Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence.
Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well.
richhotrain I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse?
I'm probably mistaken, but I thought that their "warehouse" was actually at the back of their store, and all that happened was that they no longer were open for walk-in customers.
I/we used to stop there on our way home from the Timonium train show, and the variety of displayed items continued to shrink. To order, they had computer stations where you looked up what you wanted, wrote down the item number if the item was available, gave that to one of the workers, and they would go into the back and bring it out.
Or, if you were smart enough to check availability before getting there, you just gave your list to the worker.
richhotrain Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now. There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items. Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH. Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website. Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH. Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse? Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence. Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well. Rich
There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items.
Seems like the Factory Direct Hobbies should have stayed with the name Factory Direct Trains. Now they have to put down good cash to have a train website, LOL.
To me, I would describe all of those reasons as falling under the "customer loyalty" description. I agree that's how a business might look at it.
Newsletters, mailing lists, deal announcements,etc. As a customer, I don't buy anything unless I look at 7 or 8 websites. An announcement from one retailer simply invites me to go compare their offer to every other retailer, where I then will buy the best deal. Chances are it's not the retailer that tells me "the new Genesis GP38-2s are in stock"
Maybe MBK customers simply shopped at MBK and didn't bother with other stores, so that "client list" has some value. Like I said, my loyalty begins with the shop that gives me the best deal today, and ends after I check out my shopping cart, so I don't get the customer loyalty bit that businesses seem to cherish.
You raise a good point, Douglas, and I wonder as well why Factory Direct Trains changed its name to Factory Direct Hobbies.
They changed their name as they carry RC equipment, Bandai, plastic models and more. Makes sense to me..
Doughless richhotrain Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now. There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items. Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH. Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website. Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH. Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse? Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence. Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well. Rich Seems like the Factory Direct Hobbies should have stayed with the name Factory Direct Trains. Now they have to put down good cash to have a train website, LOL. To me, I would describe all of those reasons as falling under the "customer loyalty" description. I agree that's how a business might look at it. Newsletters, mailing lists, deal announcements,etc. As a customer, I don't buy anything unless I look at 7 or 8 websites. An announcement from one retailer simply invites me to go compare their offer to every other retailer, where I then will buy the best deal. Chances are it's not the retailer that tells me "the new Genesis GP38-2s are in stock" Maybe MBK customers simply shopped at MBK and didn't bother with other stores, so that "client list" has some value. Like I said, my loyalty begins with the shop that gives me the best deal today, and ends after I check out my shopping cart, so I don't get the customer loyalty bit that businesses seem to cherish.
You obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay.
Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock.
But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well.
I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures.
It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name.....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay. Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock. But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well. I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name..... Sheldon
In my experience, Trainworld almost never has the lowest price. I've bought from them, but it's been the last choice simply because they have better stock. Even then, they miss a few notables - no Tangent, no ScaleTrains ... there may be others. They also never offer free shipping and charge tax on every order. Their 10% discount codes/sales are never exceeded and more times than not, the sales tax and shipping completely negate any discount.
Lombard is the most consistently lowest in my experience. It helps to hold an account, though. They hide their pricing behind your customer account login. Simply look up their website and check pricing, and they only look reasonabley competitive. Log into your account, then there's an entirely different - lower - pricing. They also have free shipping if you order over $450, which these days is not hard to meet (all it takes is two DCC locos). Their Achilles heel is lack of stock over Trainworld, but they try to compensate with an all-in-one pre-order system.
Both retailers may carry certain brands regularly, but then cherry-pick what they'll pre-order. I've found Trainworld inexplicably offer some road numbers for a new Athearn announcement, but then not others - and even contacted them over the discrepancy (I wanted both road numbers). They confirmed that's what they were ordering and that was all. Lombard seems to be doing that more lately and it may just be me, but their search engine has degraded.
I'm one of the few (apparently) who sorely miss ModelTrainStuff. They more consistently offered more mfrs and at the same Trainworld price or less. Then there was the points system, they would offer free shipping in certain circumstances, and their periodic sales seemed to offer more advantages than others - like 15% off to email subscribers, etc.
If FDH re-creates ModelTrainStuff with their staff and policies, I'm very interested.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures.
Sheldon, you are not all that far from me and a reasonalbe drive would cover much of the same territory. I can think of Gilbert's, White Rose, Mainline, and TTH (although that is a bit far for you.) What am I missing? Strausburg, The Station, Cool Trains, and Draudes come to mind but I am not sure I would put them in the same category. There are probably shops to the south of you that I am not familiar with.
Rick
hbgatsf ATLANTIC CENTRAL I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. Sheldon, you are not all that far from me and a reasonalbe drive would cover much of the same territory. I can think of Gilbert's, White Rose, Mainline, and TTH (although that is a bit far for you.) What am I missing? Strausburg, The Station, Cool Trains, and Draudes come to mind but I am not sure I would put them in the same category. There are probably shops to the south of you that I am not familiar with.
Yes, Gilberts, Mainline, Strasburg, and Nicolas Smith, Yankee Dabbler, Trains Toys & Hobbies in Willmington, Star Hobby in Annapolis.
Willmington, Philli/South Jersey is an easy drive for me. So is Annapolis.
This web site continues to get harder to use, not sure how much longer I can put up with it. I was going to respond more, just don't gave the time or patience.
For shopping there is price and safety and honesty in online. Many of us have been burned by fraud so we go to certain sites and certain sites do offer different item lists. Train World was always the cheapest for certain items.
IC_Tom,
I will try once more to respond if this site will let me.
Agreed, TrainWorld has "evolved" some. To be fair, I'm likely not buying as much, or the same type of stuff you are. After 55 years I have most of what I need or want.
Tangent and Scale Trains are not on my radar, they have very in my era, and even less that is of interest.
I have zero interest in anything outside the era and theme of my layout.
I did not shop at ModelTrainStuff once they closed the retail store, that web site was terrible to search. I have no interest in "browsing", I want to look up specific stuff and buy it.
I don't pre-order much, I'm sure I can count my lifetime pre-orders on my fingers.
As you mentioned, depth of inventory counts for something.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay. Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock. But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well. I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name..... Sheldon
I probably do, but that's part of what a good business has to decide if they want to plunk down cash to buy a "mailing list". There are customers with no time, and others with a lot of it to shop around.
Its an investment in time. It doesn't take me long to navigate what are now familiar sites, and some are more of a pain than others for sure.
I'm not a new release hound either. That was just an example of the kind of annoying messages I get emailed when I sign up for business's customer loyalty (IOW, pepper you with annoying emails about stuff you'd never consider buying) programs. I'd just prefer to stay out of their loops and hit their 7 or 8 websites on my terms when I have the time. Being a freelancer and a cast-off short line modeler, there is NEVER any product I need right now before its sold out.
And price is not the sole issue to visit several websites. Obviously some still hold NOS while others are sold out, so it takes some time to find the shop that still has a particular item. Its not like I would shop at only MBK or TW, then be SOL if they were sold out. Goodness, is anybody THAT loyal?
If there were brick an mortar shops, it would certainly take a lot of time to drive to each to then decide which had a better price...then go back to that shop to buy. If so, I'd probably do that intitially, then settle on the shop that generally had the best prices....and find myself loyal to that shop continuously without bothering to drive to the others anymore. Online shops selling the same product makes distances totally irrelevant in most cases. And I certainly don't know any of these owners personally, since they are likely miles away from me, so my loyalty comes down to availability and price on any given day.