ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm old fashioned, when I need or want to buy something, service, inventory selection, and convenience are balanced agains the "lowest price". I would rather a retailer have consistant competitive pricing across it whole offerings rather than have to wait for or search for the "sale". That is what built MTS/M B Klein 60 years ago. EVERYTHING was simply 20% off retail in a time when neary every shop was full retail. As explained above, I have not shopped at MTS for a long time and it has nothing to do with price - it has to do with "ease of use", which their web site fails at in my opinion. I do think they are moving to a state/place with lower business costs than here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland. I personally would have left years ago except for family. The current location of MTS is in a very expensive part of the Baltimore metro area, in a county with high property taxes, lots of regulation, high labor costs, and no special shipping advantages. So it makes sense that Hattons would move the operation. It is typical for this type of business to save on moving costs by lowing the inventory size somewhat until after the move. Sheldon
I'm old fashioned, when I need or want to buy something, service, inventory selection, and convenience are balanced agains the "lowest price".
I would rather a retailer have consistant competitive pricing across it whole offerings rather than have to wait for or search for the "sale".
That is what built MTS/M B Klein 60 years ago. EVERYTHING was simply 20% off retail in a time when neary every shop was full retail.
As explained above, I have not shopped at MTS for a long time and it has nothing to do with price - it has to do with "ease of use", which their web site fails at in my opinion.
I do think they are moving to a state/place with lower business costs than here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland. I personally would have left years ago except for family. The current location of MTS is in a very expensive part of the Baltimore metro area, in a county with high property taxes, lots of regulation, high labor costs, and no special shipping advantages.
So it makes sense that Hattons would move the operation.
It is typical for this type of business to save on moving costs by lowing the inventory size somewhat until after the move.
Sheldon
What I have noticed is several sites will have deals on newly arriving stock...specific roadnames. Not sure why, but the prices are substantially lower than some competitors. So I wait at times to see when other sites receive something. And other sites will have sales on various categories, rolling stock, structures, etc, in inventory.
Some things sit in inventory and when I decide I want something, I'll just surf different sites and usually something is cheaper than what MTS had it for.
Agreed on their website. Not the best. And their rewards program brought prices down, but I don't care for the attempt at captivating my customer-hood, as is common for some retailers.
IMO, there were some quirks about MTS that turned me off. I hope Hatton's eliminates those if they can.
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRALI would rather a retailer have consistant competitive pricing across it whole offerings rather than have to wait for or search for the "sale".
agreed 100%. It's annoying enough with other products but the nature of model trains makes the practice even worse.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL IC_Tom kasskaboose Thanks for finding out. Anything more to the thread? It's past due for closure. Sad seeing this happen, but finding another vendor makese sense. It happens. And yet, the MR story itself is contradictory: "Hattons does own M.B. Klein; However, the two companies are operated as separate entities.” "Since the announcement of Hattons closure, the status of Model Train Stuff’s website changed to reflect the current status of the company." So, if they are separate, then why is there a "status of the company" (singular) for both? I mean no disrespect to anyone on here, but when topics like this come up, I often wonder about the business experience/knowledge of some of those who respond. LOTS of businesses, even relatively small businesses, run different parts of their operation as "separate entities". EVEN your local new car dealship is actually run as multiple "departments" that are pretty much stand alone separate businesses under one roof. New car sales, used car sales, parts, service, body shop each keep their own books, track their own sales, pay each other for goods and services and show their own profit or loss. Yes, the service department "buys" the parts from the parts department and then sells them to the service customer. The used car sales department "pays" the service department to inspect and repair the trade-in or auction purchase before it goes on the front line. Historically big corporations are actually made up of multiple separate companies under an umbrella holding company. Often the down stream companies operate with a high level of autonomy. So for Hattons to treat the purchase and operation of ModelTrainStuff completely separate, especially considering it is in a different country and has to be a separate company in some way anyway, would be the proper business approach. And yes, investing in the US market may have been seen as a hedge against changes in the UK market even if the decission to close the UK operation was not made until recently. True we don't know all the details, and, it really is not our business. We will eack make our own choices about who to do business with moving forward. But unless the MTS web site is improved they still won't get my business. Why don't I like the web site? WAY to hard to look up and find specific items. I hate flipping thru web page anfter web page of "pictures" after searching with a very specific description. I hate being "marketed to" by forcing me to sift thru stuff I'm not interested in. On others sites, Trainworld, ToyTrainHeaven, I can get to specific items with a minimum amount of "sifting". Sheldon
IC_Tom kasskaboose Thanks for finding out. Anything more to the thread? It's past due for closure. Sad seeing this happen, but finding another vendor makese sense. It happens. And yet, the MR story itself is contradictory: "Hattons does own M.B. Klein; However, the two companies are operated as separate entities.” "Since the announcement of Hattons closure, the status of Model Train Stuff’s website changed to reflect the current status of the company." So, if they are separate, then why is there a "status of the company" (singular) for both?
kasskaboose Thanks for finding out. Anything more to the thread? It's past due for closure. Sad seeing this happen, but finding another vendor makese sense. It happens.
Thanks for finding out. Anything more to the thread? It's past due for closure.
Sad seeing this happen, but finding another vendor makese sense. It happens.
And yet, the MR story itself is contradictory:
"Hattons does own M.B. Klein; However, the two companies are operated as separate entities.”
"Since the announcement of Hattons closure, the status of Model Train Stuff’s website changed to reflect the current status of the company."
So, if they are separate, then why is there a "status of the company" (singular) for both?
I mean no disrespect to anyone on here, but when topics like this come up, I often wonder about the business experience/knowledge of some of those who respond.
LOTS of businesses, even relatively small businesses, run different parts of their operation as "separate entities".
EVEN your local new car dealship is actually run as multiple "departments" that are pretty much stand alone separate businesses under one roof. New car sales, used car sales, parts, service, body shop each keep their own books, track their own sales, pay each other for goods and services and show their own profit or loss.
Yes, the service department "buys" the parts from the parts department and then sells them to the service customer. The used car sales department "pays" the service department to inspect and repair the trade-in or auction purchase before it goes on the front line.
Historically big corporations are actually made up of multiple separate companies under an umbrella holding company. Often the down stream companies operate with a high level of autonomy.
So for Hattons to treat the purchase and operation of ModelTrainStuff completely separate, especially considering it is in a different country and has to be a separate company in some way anyway, would be the proper business approach.
And yes, investing in the US market may have been seen as a hedge against changes in the UK market even if the decission to close the UK operation was not made until recently.
True we don't know all the details, and, it really is not our business.
We will eack make our own choices about who to do business with moving forward.
But unless the MTS web site is improved they still won't get my business.
Why don't I like the web site? WAY to hard to look up and find specific items. I hate flipping thru web page anfter web page of "pictures" after searching with a very specific description.
I hate being "marketed to" by forcing me to sift thru stuff I'm not interested in.
On others sites, Trainworld, ToyTrainHeaven, I can get to specific items with a minimum amount of "sifting".
And yet, I have a small business and have been incorporated for at least 16 years (in addition to other sources of income). I don't pretend to know everything, but point out contradictions when I see them. I'll leave it at that.
The website can no longer be navigated, only the main page is partially acessible. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
Lets hope they are busy making improvements.
Jim
Soo Line fan The website can no longer be navigated, only the main page is partially acessible. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ Lets hope they are busy making improvements.
Depending on which senerio you think is most likely, they are moving. It is impossible to move a business and operate it at the same time unless your business is VERY large. No company in this business is that large.....
This has been an interesting thread.
For an example of how to run a business:
About fifty miles south of me is Spring Creek Model Railroad. It is in the town of Deshler, Nebraska, that has a population of 700. It is ten miles off a highway. The closest town of any size is 90 miles away.
Yet it is successful. What's the secret?
It seems to be hard work, helpful employees, and owners who love their work and love the people they meet.
Hard work -- they attend train shows all over the country, taking one or two trailers with their supplies.
Helpful employees -- their website is limited. They take orders over the phone. Their employees will work with a customer to get exactly what the person wants. It may mean extra work tracking the product down, but they will do it.
Owners who love their work: The owners are at the store when they aren't traveling. They love meeting and talking to customers. When you go into the store, they will make you feel like you are important to them.
On their counter, they have an autograph book that customers sign. Looking through it, you will find customers from all over the U.S. and from other countries. These are not customers at the shows -- they are customers who have traveled long distances to get to the store.
Even in this day and age, a store like this can still succeed if the owners work at it.
This isn't an ad -- I just admire what these people have done.
York1 John
York1 This has been an interesting thread. For an example of how to run a business: About fifty miles south of me is Spring Creek Model Railroad. It is in the town of Deshler, Nebraska, that has a population of 700. It is ten miles off a highway. The closest town of any size is 90 miles away. Yet it is successful. What's the secret? It seems to be hard work, helpful employees, and owners who love their work and love the people they meet. Hard work -- they attend train shows all over the country, taking one or two trailers with their supplies. Helpful employees -- their website is limited. They take orders over the phone. Their employees will work with a customer to get exactly what the person wants. It may mean extra work tracking the product down, but they will do it. Owners who love their work: The owners are at the store when they aren't traveling. They love meeting and talking to customers. When you go into the store, they will make you feel like you are important to them. On their counter, they have an autograph book that customers sign. Looking through it, you will find customers from all over the U.S. and from other countries. These are not customers at the shows -- they are customers who have traveled long distances to get to the store. Even in this day and age, a store like this can still succeed if the owners work at it. This isn't an ad -- I just admire what these people have done.
And just in this one picture you can see their commitment to the other secret to success - inventory. You can't sell what you don't have.
But that takes space and resources.
We have a shop like that in this region, nearly all alone on a rural road in south central PA, barely over the line from Maryland, in a little crossroad town. Mainline Hobby Supply in Blue Ridge Summit PA. Great inventory, great service, good prices. Two hours from anything you would call a city. But a great place to buy trains.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Soo Line fan The website can no longer be navigated, only the main page is partially acessible. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ Lets hope they are busy making improvements. Depending on which senerio you think is most likely, they are moving. It is impossible to move a business and operate it at the same time unless your business is VERY large. No company in this business is that large..... Sheldon
If it's all web-based e-commerce and they also have a drop-ship relationship, it's quite possible to run the thing remotely, making moves entirely possible, too.
What is not being mentioned is that they're destroying the web front. It's all retail. In retail, you keep the doors open and maintain consistent hours at all times. Closing the doors when your customer base is used to certain hours is death to your sales. It's the same as radio silence on a radio station. If there's nothing to see or hear, people move on. Most never come back.
John:
Thanks for posting a picture of the Zuckers. I have been acquainted with them for years (and have bought lots and lots of stuff from them). They made several Texas shows, in Temple and in Plano, that I used to attend religiously. Now that I am in Kansas, I am thrilled to find that they attend the Garden City show.
I will make my way to Nebraska, hopefully sooner than later. I want to attend the big Free-Mo meet held in April; seems like a good excuse to kill two birds with one stone.
IC_Tom ATLANTIC CENTRAL Soo Line fan The website can no longer be navigated, only the main page is partially acessible. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ Lets hope they are busy making improvements. Depending on which senerio you think is most likely, they are moving. It is impossible to move a business and operate it at the same time unless your business is VERY large. No company in this business is that large..... Sheldon If it's all web-based e-commerce and they also have a drop-ship relationship, it's quite possible to run the thing remotely, making moves entirely possible, too. What is not being mentioned is that they're destroying the web front. It's all retail. In retail, you keep the doors open and maintain consistent hours at all times. Closing the doors when your customer base is used to certain hours is death to your sales. It's the same as radio silence on a radio station. If there's nothing to see or hear, people move on. Most never come back.
That is where you are wrong, at least before Hattons they did not deliver products thru drop ship relationships. In fact, I have not found one online retailer in this business doing that. Places like MTS, ToyTrainHeaven, Transworld and others get their product direct from the manufacturers. The manufacturers are not setup to provide that. They simply pass thru, mostly case lots of product when it gets here from China. This is not an industry on the scale of Amazon.
I assume most will come back to Klein's once they get their site back up. I don't need access to a train store every day, so for me, who checks their site about 6 times a year, they could be down for 4 weeks before I even might notice it.
I'll buy or not depending upon what the inventory and pricing is. I'm not going to hold a grudge because they paused their business while they reorganize.
They appear to be gone forever.
Paul
The following is on their web site:
We regret to inform you that MB Klein Inc. (Model Train Stuff) has now ceased trading.
Thank you for your custom and support over our incredible 111 years of continuous operation.
Our customer service agents are available for a limited period to assist with any final queries.
That is certainly some British English there.
The whole thing is just so weird and purposeless.
IRONROOSTER They appear to be gone forever. Paul The following is on their web site: Customer Notice We regret to inform you that MB Klein Inc. (Model Train Stuff) has now ceased trading. Thank you for your custom and support over our incredible 111 years of continuous operation. Our customer service agents are available for a limited period to assist with any final queries.
Wow!
That is a weirdly worded message, and it is different from the message that I read earlier this morning after reading Douglas' post about MTS.
The earlier message on the MTS website talked about a temporary closure during reorganization.
Rich
Alton Junction
I can't say I am surprised although it is sad to see. This reminds me so much of what happened back in the 80's with TG&Y discount stores. They were bought out by McCrorys who took on a huge amount of debt to do so. They did not understand their market- they took big stores that were at least competitive, halved their size and shrunk selection and quality more than that. They were gone pretty quickly.
For Klein's drop shipping with a severely reduced selection as a long term plan here sure wasn't going to work. Really sad to see. Hattons really goofed all this up in short order.
Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I told you earlier in the thread all that remained was a domain name.
As with any business transaction only the owners and other insiders really know what happened. Very sad but I expect to see more of this as new generations take over.
drgwcsHattons really goofed all this up in short order.
I don't know if it could really happen that fast - buy a thriving business in September, have to close it down as a failure in December? Seems just as likely Kleins/MTS was having difficulty behind the scenes already, and Hattons thought they could step in and salvage it.
As mentioned, we may never know the whole story.
Well if that was Hattons plan, to convert the MTS website into a drop ship ecommerce business, that was doomed before it was thought about.
Walthers, Bowser, Athearn, Intermountain, Broadway Limited, Bachmann and Atlas all have direct to consumer web pages.
Why would they sell at wholesale to Hattons and do all the work for them? It makes no sense.
I bet all or most of those companies laughed at the idea?
If any of these companies is going to put a single item, or even 5 items, in a box and send to directly to a consumer, they are going to keep all the markup - they don't need the "ModelTrainStuff" logo to sell their stuff.
They sell wholsale to the big dealers so they don't have to do as much work, by filling large orders where shipping and handling is more efficient. And because many of ther best web/mailorder shops are also brick and mortar stores where peolple do walk in and buy stuff.
Back in the day, when it was till made here, Athearn products only left the factory in case lots of 12 - 12 of all the same item.
I would bet today that Atlas track still only leaves their building in case lots, except for direct to consumer business, which I think for them is full retail like Walthers.
As I said before, I won't miss them, the website was impossible for me. The last stuff I bought from them was in person before they closed the retail store.
Seems like everything Hattons did in North America was flop.....
They were able to get orders out very fast last summer, into early fall. Starting Sept. or so, orders that used to take 3 days to get here in New York often too 7-10 days to ship, plus transit time -- and all was still coming out of suburban Baltimore at that time. My last order came in 3 separate shipments, including a Mikado I hadn't ordered. It's a damn shame. At least we still have a few other vendors (Toy Train Heaven, Lombard Hobby, Trainworld).
Uncle_Bob They were able to get orders out very fast last summer, into early fall. Starting Sept. or so, orders that used to take 3 days to get here in New York often too 7-10 days to ship, plus transit time -- and all was still coming out of suburban Baltimore at that time. My last order came in 3 separate shipments, including a Mikado I hadn't ordered. It's a damn shame. At least we still have a few other vendors (Toy Train Heaven, Lombard Hobby, Trainworld).
Thanks Bob, confirmed my point. Before all this there was no "drop shipping" by MTS. Everything you bought was here in Maryland at their only warehouse.
Plus you could still get curbside pickup well after they'd stopped opening the front door and letting you walk around the place.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Uncle_Bob They were able to get orders out very fast last summer, into early fall. Starting Sept. or so, orders that used to take 3 days to get here in New York often too 7-10 days to ship, plus transit time -- and all was still coming out of suburban Baltimore at that time. My last order came in 3 separate shipments, including a Mikado I hadn't ordered. It's a damn shame. At least we still have a few other vendors (Toy Train Heaven, Lombard Hobby, Trainworld). Thanks Bob, confirmed my point. Before all this there was no "drop shipping" by MTS. Everything you bought was here in Maryland at their only warehouse. Sheldon
Something definitely seemed off the last few months they existed. For example, they got something like 30 Bowser Lehigh Valley RS-3's in one day. They still had 28 about 4:45 PM. When I went back at 5:30, they were all gone. Similar things happened with BLI engines: massive quantities of merchandise appeared, then vanished a few hours later, and sometimes reappeared weeks later. Maybe everything was on the up and up, but such huge swings in merchandise levels made me wonder exactly what was going on with their inventory.
More likely than any of that would be Hattons had a LOI to buy MTS/Kleins and then backed out after doing due diligence on the operation.
pure speculation but it makes sense unlike the business tanking within 3 months.
While fun to speculate about what did/did not happen to the place, it's sad to see this vendor go 86. Similar to others, I had fun visiting their B'more store and still used them when they left. Having seen this before it doesn't make the moving on process ANY easier, but no point dwelling on the past.
Found a great and relevant quote from the late, great coach John Wooden: "Dwelling in the past prevents doing something in the present."
Time to find another reputable vendor.
MJ4562 More likely than any of that would be Hattons had a LOI to buy MTS/Kleins and then backed out after doing due diligence on the operation. pure speculation but it makes sense unlike the business tanking within 3 months.
Anything is possible, but about 6 months ago I spoke with a long time aquaintance who was a train show dealer for several decades. He indicated that he was now working for Kleins in a management position and seemed extreemly positive about things there.
Ever since Ted Klein passed away there have been rumors here in the Baltimore area that the family was considering selling the business.
Train show coming up next week, if I make it there I will see lots of people I know in this business. It will be interesting to hear what people in the business have to say.
This all was just another leveraged buyout that went bad, like Toys Are Us or Sears. It just went bad really fast and we don't know when Haltons bought or what their terms were, there have been a lot of companies that got caught in the intrest rate squeese and there are a bunch of companys that are still going to go away out there that are not train related, the bankruptcies have just started.
rrebell This all was just another leveraged buyout that went bad, like Toys Are Us or Sears. It just went bad really fast and we don't know when Haltons bought or what their terms were, there have been a lot of companies that got caught in the intrest rate squeese and there are a bunch of companys that are still going to go away out there that are not train related, the bankruptcies have just started.
Lots of grist for the forum mill. It's adios MB Kline/MTS
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983