NittanyLion Doughless it looks like Hatton's came in to buy the inventory and then liquidated it during their big sale a few weeks back. Maybe the Klein's simply wanted out quickly and completley before the Holiday's and didn't wan't the hassles of going through the shut down process? You know, in a funny roundabout kind of way, that's exactly what Hatton's business was. "Sell your pre-owned model railroad collection for cash" indeed.
Doughless it looks like Hatton's came in to buy the inventory and then liquidated it during their big sale a few weeks back. Maybe the Klein's simply wanted out quickly and completley before the Holiday's and didn't wan't the hassles of going through the shut down process?
You know, in a funny roundabout kind of way, that's exactly what Hatton's business was. "Sell your pre-owned model railroad collection for cash" indeed.
Rich
Alton Junction
Doughlessit looks like Hatton's came in to buy the inventory and then liquidated it during their big sale a few weeks back. Maybe the Klein's simply wanted out quickly and completley before the Holiday's and didn't wan't the hassles of going through the shut down process?
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL So today I attended the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD and had the opportunity to speak with as few people I know in the industry. The events that have been reported in this thread are generally what happened. The Klein family was ready to sell or shut down the business. Hattons bought the inventory and the name. Then, for whatever reasons, Hattons decided not to continue operations here or in the UK. The building ownership is listed as a real estate holding company - so the Klein family may still own that. It is a pretty high rent area of Baltimore, a good investment as a landlord. Sheldon Sheldon, thank you for the update. I was ready to post a somewhat speculative post about what Hatton's must have acually bought from Kleins. It really seems like they would not have bought much other than the inventory. They would not want a hobby shop, or a building. While being a commercial real estate investor might be lucrative, I assumed Hatton's wanted to stick to the train business. What is the Brand name worth? Its not really MBKlein's anymore...but a generic ModelTrainStuff. In the sea of other online names, what is that really worth? And, how much value did the website have? You yourself pointed out that it lagged in efficiency compared to some others. SInce Hatton's apparently partly owns a distribution process in Nebraska, it looks like Hatton's came in to buy the inventory and then liquidated it during their big sale a few weeks back. Maybe the Klein's simply wanted out quickly and completley before the Holiday's and didn't wan't the hassles of going through the shut down process? Maybe they were losing employees and couldn't do it. No matter. Just a weird series of events that will probably go unexplained to its fullest.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So today I attended the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD and had the opportunity to speak with as few people I know in the industry. The events that have been reported in this thread are generally what happened. The Klein family was ready to sell or shut down the business. Hattons bought the inventory and the name. Then, for whatever reasons, Hattons decided not to continue operations here or in the UK. The building ownership is listed as a real estate holding company - so the Klein family may still own that. It is a pretty high rent area of Baltimore, a good investment as a landlord. Sheldon
So today I attended the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD and had the opportunity to speak with as few people I know in the industry.
The events that have been reported in this thread are generally what happened.
The Klein family was ready to sell or shut down the business. Hattons bought the inventory and the name.
Then, for whatever reasons, Hattons decided not to continue operations here or in the UK.
The building ownership is listed as a real estate holding company - so the Klein family may still own that. It is a pretty high rent area of Baltimore, a good investment as a landlord.
Sheldon
Sheldon, thank you for the update. I was ready to post a somewhat speculative post about what Hatton's must have acually bought from Kleins. It really seems like they would not have bought much other than the inventory.
They would not want a hobby shop, or a building. While being a commercial real estate investor might be lucrative, I assumed Hatton's wanted to stick to the train business.
What is the Brand name worth? Its not really MBKlein's anymore...but a generic ModelTrainStuff. In the sea of other online names, what is that really worth?
And, how much value did the website have? You yourself pointed out that it lagged in efficiency compared to some others.
SInce Hatton's apparently partly owns a distribution process in Nebraska, it looks like Hatton's came in to buy the inventory and then liquidated it during their big sale a few weeks back. Maybe the Klein's simply wanted out quickly and completley before the Holiday's and didn't wan't the hassles of going through the shut down process? Maybe they were losing employees and couldn't do it.
No matter. Just a weird series of events that will probably go unexplained to its fullest.
Yes, the family was clearly looking to cash out, that rumor had been around this town a few times since Ted Klein passed.
I do think that both "names" had some market value. And while the location may be a great rental for the family, it was not the best place cost wise for a model train warehouse.
But if the other speculation, about Hattons thinking they could do business in North America by getting manufacturers to do drop shipping, that might have actually been the final blow to any plans Hattons had for North Amercia.
There is no logical reason for Walthers, Horizon, Bowser, Bachmann, Intermountain, Concor, Atlas, BLI or any North American based manufacturer to do business with Hattons on that basis - they ALL already sell direct to customers and to retailers who do their own warehousing.
In fact the manufacturers want most of the product to leave quickly in case lots and go to the other retailers - it is a better cash flow formula. Then they can keep just enough on had for their own retail volume.
- Douglas
Doughless So it seems that MTS is officially Kaput, for the time being and maybe forever. No matter, I will continue to use the many other outlets that provide good prices and the expected great (same) service. Hiawatha Hobbies, Sprink Creek Model Trains, Lombard Hobbies, Midwest Modeler, High Country Hobbies, TrainMasterModels, YankeeDabbler, FactoryDirect, TrainWorld, Trainz. There are probably others. I would mention Tony's Trains, but I'm not sure they are interested in staying in business. Most of those have a free standing shop with lots of inventory if you visit. Over the years when I checked the MTS site for somehting, they hardly ever had the best price and very little In-Stock....I guess I had to be a "preorder member" or something. Being short on In-Stock items without the best prices seems like a business that would go Kaput eventually.
So it seems that MTS is officially Kaput, for the time being and maybe forever.
No matter, I will continue to use the many other outlets that provide good prices and the expected great (same) service.
Hiawatha Hobbies, Sprink Creek Model Trains, Lombard Hobbies, Midwest Modeler, High Country Hobbies, TrainMasterModels, YankeeDabbler, FactoryDirect, TrainWorld, Trainz. There are probably others. I would mention Tony's Trains, but I'm not sure they are interested in staying in business.
Most of those have a free standing shop with lots of inventory if you visit.
Over the years when I checked the MTS site for somehting, they hardly ever had the best price and very little In-Stock....I guess I had to be a "preorder member" or something. Being short on In-Stock items without the best prices seems like a business that would go Kaput eventually.
Mike
BigDaddy rrebell Funny I never felt unsafe arrounf Kleins but that was in the early 80's Neither did I, but a couple blocks north or east and you were definitely outside the wire. Sheldon I remember the name Lloyds. Where was it? I vaguely remember a train store in Stoneleigh, but my father never took me there.
rrebell Funny I never felt unsafe arrounf Kleins but that was in the early 80's
Neither did I, but a couple blocks north or east and you were definitely outside the wire.
Sheldon I remember the name Lloyds. Where was it? I vaguely remember a train store in Stoneleigh, but my father never took me there.
Lloyds was orginally in the city, N Charles St if I recall, but they moved to York Rd in Towson, near the beltway early in the 60's?
Stoneleigh Cycle and Hobby, right on York Road in the Stoneleigh Shopping strip. They were a Marklin dealer. Was only in there a few times, pretty good inventory of basics for a very small shop.
In the 80's I sold tools in southeast Baltimore, Dundalk, Caton, Highlandtown, etc. Never had any issues, never felt "unsafe" - and I was carrying $2,000 in cash in my shirt pocket and driving a truck with almost $100,000 worth of tools.
After I left that business, some of those areas have had some issues, but here is my take on urban crime. Sure, there will always be "crimes of opportunity" especially in ecconomically depressed areas.
BUT, most of the crime is gang/drug territory conflicts, or thugs fighting each other over women/money. You don't bother them, they won't bother you.
But trick is to not look scared, don't look like a "victum", act like you belong there.
rrebellFunny I never felt unsafe arrounf Kleins but that was in the early 80's
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
jeep35 Sheldon, I'm going to assume you and I are in the same age group (lets say vintage) and we had quite a few choices when it came to hobby shops. Marconi's in Brooklyn (Baltimore) was within walking distance as a boy. Later in life Pro Custom Hobbies and Kleins were my preferred shops. Sadly, as we all know, the area around Kleins suffered from crime and other urban issues. I remember city work crews power washing the area under the JFX to remove the unfortunate smell. Also on a bright Saturday morning I walked into the store and not 5 minutes later a older gentleman walked in who had just been beaten and robbed. At that time I was younger and stronger so I guess they chose a more vulnerable target. That being said, shopping at the brick and mortar Kliens was always enjoyable. Selection was good, prices were good and sometimes Ted was there and you could watch him do old fashioned math calculating your purchase. After the move I never made it to the new store. TTH offered similar prices, similar shipping, and at the time no MD sales tax was collected. I will always have fond memories of browsing the aisles and looking at that huge glass case where the locomotives were displayed. Sorry for being long winded, i got a little nostalgic.
Sheldon,
I'm going to assume you and I are in the same age group (lets say vintage) and we had quite a few choices when it came to hobby shops. Marconi's in Brooklyn (Baltimore) was within walking distance as a boy. Later in life Pro Custom Hobbies and Kleins were my preferred shops. Sadly, as we all know, the area around Kleins suffered from crime and other urban issues. I remember city work crews power washing the area under the JFX to remove the unfortunate smell. Also on a bright Saturday morning I walked into the store and not 5 minutes later a older gentleman walked in who had just been beaten and robbed. At that time I was younger and stronger so I guess they chose a more vulnerable target. That being said, shopping at the brick and mortar Kliens was always enjoyable. Selection was good, prices were good and sometimes Ted was there and you could watch him do old fashioned math calculating your purchase. After the move I never made it to the new store. TTH offered similar prices, similar shipping, and at the time no MD sales tax was collected. I will always have fond memories of browsing the aisles and looking at that huge glass case where the locomotives were displayed. Sorry for being long winded, i got a little nostalgic.
Uncle_BobWhy is a defunct business asking me to review products they're no longer selling, on a website that no longer functions?
Obviously, Hydra has reared its ugly head in its attempt at world domination of MRRing. Not to worry. Cap'n will take care it...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
That's too bad.
This struck me as kind of odd: A couple days ago, I got several emails asking me to give reviews on products I bought from MBK a few months ago. Why is a defunct business asking me to review products they're no longer selling, on a website that no longer functions?
Thanks for getting and sharing the additional info, Sheldon.
Remember the Lifelike headquarters as they were close to where I lived when in Maryland, long time ago.
I was thinking the same thing.
Regards, Chris
Wolf359 I checked their website the other day, they said that they're closing after 111 years. What a shame. Apparently Hattons, the parent company closed for some reason and they took Kleins down with them.
I checked their website the other day, they said that they're closing after 111 years. What a shame. Apparently Hattons, the parent company closed for some reason and they took Kleins down with them.
Obviously you did not read any of the other posts in thread?
I thought this thread was locked the other day?
In the very early 60's my uncle, Freddy Stroh had a shop in Glen Burnie. I knew the Marconi's well and stayed in touch with Jackie almost up to her passing in 2018.
Yes, Pro Custom, City Wide, I even remember Lloyd's before they closed.
My father took me to all the old shops when I was young.
At age 14 I was working in the Depot Hobby Shop in Severna Park. After they left town I got a job at a place that had just opened, Glen Burnie Hobby World. Worked there until about 1980, managed the train department. Long retired, the owner is still one of my dearest friends.
Ted Klein knew my Uncle and father and would ask about my family every time I saw him.
I could go on and on listing the people in this business and hobby that I had the privilege to meet and know over the years. This region seems to have always been one of the hot spots for this hobby and this business.
LifeLike, AHM, Bachmann, Atlas, Aristo Craft, NJ International, all call/called the Mid Atlantic home.
But time marches on...
jeep35 Sorry for being long winded, i got a little nostalgic.
Sorry for being long winded, i got a little nostalgic.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Uncle_Bob A new post on the website says they're not taking orders while they're reorganizing. Sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Refresh your browser and try again: https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ Sheldon
Uncle_Bob A new post on the website says they're not taking orders while they're reorganizing. Sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
A new post on the website says they're not taking orders while they're reorganizing. Sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
Refresh your browser and try again:
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
DigitalGriffin I was last at mb Klein's about 6 maybe 5 years ago. The retail side of the shop considerably downsized. And while I try not to speak I'll of people, the owner was quite cranky like his heart wasn't in it any more. We didn't feel like welcome customers. But he was older so he might have just decided it was time to retire
I was last at mb Klein's about 6 maybe 5 years ago. The retail side of the shop considerably downsized. And while I try not to speak I'll of people, the owner was quite cranky like his heart wasn't in it any more. We didn't feel like welcome customers. But he was older so he might have just decided it was time to retire
Whoever you delt with was not the owner. Ted Klein retired from day to day operations before they even moved to Cockeysville.
And Ted passed away in 2020.
Yes, these recent changes reflect a desire of the family to sell the business.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
In my opinion, today, Walthers is only still a "distributor" of other brands because they still manage to be a "retail mail order" source for some customers, so they want to offer products from other brands.
There are several reasons why Athearn quickly went to self distribution when Horizon took over - Walthers was one of those reasons. Athearn had been the single largest rolling stock line for decades, but in the late 70's Walthers bought TrainsMinature and rapidly expanded their presence in the plastic freight car kit business.
From that moment on, Walthers gave Athearn a position of "second fiddle" in their catalog - which then was an important tool for all brands to market their products.
Walthers has always been best at being a manufacturer, with being a distributor or retailer of other brands taking second chair.
Horizon also went to self distribution simply because they could, they already had the infrastructure in place. And it allowed them to "clean house" get rid of less than ligit "basement dealers", stablize pricing and provide better service to ligit businesses.
Today, Athearn is still one of the big players dispite all the naysayers when Horizon took over.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Those shops you had in your area, part of the reason they are gone, you cannot make a living in this business selling at 20% off unless you are buying most of what you sell direct from the manufacturers at "distributor" prices. Back in the day, when Walthers had a lock on everything and everyone, my favorite LHS bought everything from Walthers. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Those shops you had in your area, part of the reason they are gone, you cannot make a living in this business selling at 20% off unless you are buying most of what you sell direct from the manufacturers at "distributor" prices.
Those shops you had in your area, part of the reason they are gone, you cannot make a living in this business selling at 20% off unless you are buying most of what you sell direct from the manufacturers at "distributor" prices.
Back in the day, when Walthers had a lock on everything and everyone, my favorite LHS bought everything from Walthers.
? Walthers did not have a lock on everyone? Yes they bought up a lot of small companies and controlled those products.
So buying only from them was a big mistake because Walthers has never been the best place for a dealer to buy non Walthers merchandise. Other regional distributors have always had deeper inventory, better pricing, better terms and faster delivery than Walthers.
When I managed a train department we mainly used Walthers for their own products and some "fill in" stuff. Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, Roundhouse, LifeLike, Campbell, and two dozen more brands were better bought from regional distributors near us, who used their own trucks for delivery, offered special terms in the fall for the "big season", and had deeper more complete inventories of those brands.
richhotrain rrebell Accually the reason all the hobby shops left was the price of real estate, even if you owned the building the land value is massive. The monthly rent did in all three of my LHS, and in short order. All three were there one day and gone the next, or so it seemed. All three closed in the same year. Rich
rrebell Accually the reason all the hobby shops left was the price of real estate, even if you owned the building the land value is massive.
Accually the reason all the hobby shops left was the price of real estate, even if you owned the building the land value is massive.
The monthly rent did in all three of my LHS, and in short order. All three were there one day and gone the next, or so it seemed. All three closed in the same year.
Again, the rent did them in because 20% is not enough margin to run a retail store - even Walmart works on a higher total gorass margin than that - about 30%.
Sheldon.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL No doubt real estate costs are a factor, and that is a reason why many of the remaining shops in this region are in small towns or out in the middle of nowhere, or, have owned their buildings forever. Just another reason why the value based property tax is a flawed system, but that is a topic for a different forum. The point remains, you CANNOT run a business of this type on a 20% gross margin - you will loose money. You NEED to buy your product at a price that allows you to sell most of it at a 40% gross margin, so your real gross margin is 35% or more. So you can't buy stuff from conventional distributors at 40% off MSRP and sell stuff at 20% off MSRP. As the Internet became the go-to place for model railroading supply, I used to encourage my guys to establish an Internet presence to move some of the inventory. But all three LHS were intimidated at the thought of it. Often, I would be the only shopper on the store. Not good. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No doubt real estate costs are a factor, and that is a reason why many of the remaining shops in this region are in small towns or out in the middle of nowhere, or, have owned their buildings forever. Just another reason why the value based property tax is a flawed system, but that is a topic for a different forum. The point remains, you CANNOT run a business of this type on a 20% gross margin - you will loose money. You NEED to buy your product at a price that allows you to sell most of it at a 40% gross margin, so your real gross margin is 35% or more. So you can't buy stuff from conventional distributors at 40% off MSRP and sell stuff at 20% off MSRP.
No doubt real estate costs are a factor, and that is a reason why many of the remaining shops in this region are in small towns or out in the middle of nowhere, or, have owned their buildings forever.
Just another reason why the value based property tax is a flawed system, but that is a topic for a different forum.
The point remains, you CANNOT run a business of this type on a 20% gross margin - you will loose money.
You NEED to buy your product at a price that allows you to sell most of it at a 40% gross margin, so your real gross margin is 35% or more.
So you can't buy stuff from conventional distributors at 40% off MSRP and sell stuff at 20% off MSRP.
As the Internet became the go-to place for model railroading supply, I used to encourage my guys to establish an Internet presence to move some of the inventory. But all three LHS were intimidated at the thought of it. Often, I would be the only shopper on the store. Not good.
For the post part, the manufacturers will sell at the nearly lowest price to anyone with a retail business licence, but they require a minimum volume and generally require ordering in case lots which are typically 12 units, sometimes 24 for small items and often only 6 for things like locomotives. This has changed some in these days of preorders.
So the shops that can move that much product, by internet or otherwise, can buy direct and then can sell at 20% or more below MSRP.
The shop in Annapolis that has good prices on Bachmann, does some mail order business, by phone, their web page does not have a cart. Mainly they have the store and they go to all the train shows here on the east coast.
Mainline Hobby Supply has a good sized store, and a web site, but not everything is on the website - just call them up.
Many others are like that as well.
Back in the old days at Kleins, I know first hand that Ted Klein bought most of his product direct - but not everything. All the regional distributors still called on him and he used them to keep his inventory full and complete. He happly paid more for a small percentage of his product to not miss sales and to foster that reputation of "having everything".
Other big shops back in those days worked the same way - depth of inventory was everything - you can't sell what you don't have and you can't read the minds of all the customers.
I miss those days, While I understand the impossible task of keeping large percentages of all the stuff produced today in stock, I still feel the "disconnected" selection of product on the shelves at any minute today does not help the hobby.
In 1968 a person could walk into a store like Kleins and walk out with a set of locomotives and a matching passenger train - generic as it might have been. Try that today?