Does anyone know the record for most responses to a thread?
I've read on another forum that from an anonymous source that worked at MTS until the end that Intermountain was in the running.
I am having password issues at Trainboard and cannot confirm this but someone else said Intermountain posted on Trainboard:
We've read with slight amusement that InterMountain was somehow involved with the past few months happenings at MB Klein. Perhaps people that used to be involved with InterMountain made an offer for Kleins but the current ownership (almost a decade now) and team had nothing to do with the happenings at Klein. We were involved in no way; none. Just want to end the speculation and rumors.
In these days of fake AI videos and hacked sites, could the MTS "we'll be back" be entirely fake? Sure, these days that is the most likely explanation. Would a company, like Intermountain deny they had been involved in a takeover, sure.
Whatever MTS might become, it is unlikely to be what MB Klein used to be, a Spring Creek MR hobby store where you can actually browse the products before you buy.
Could it be an Internet mail order powerhouse again to compete with Trainworld and the like? It could, but that's not what happened to Caboose. I don't have high hopes.
Sheldon, thanks for your previous answer about Stoneleigh hobby shops.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
NittanyLion The European era system isn't a bad idea, but one retailer isn't going to be able to implement it and there's a lot of inertia to overcome
The European era system isn't a bad idea, but one retailer isn't going to be able to implement it and there's a lot of inertia to overcome
I took a close look at the proposed era "scheme" from Hattons. It was WAY too broad, especially in the older eras.
In Europe and the UK, largely speaking, the governments have ran the railroads almost from the beginning.
This, by its nature, creates higher levels of standardization and uniformity.
And Europe does not represent the wide range of geography, climate, and types of lifestyles in North America from the 1830's to now.
Because in 194 years of North American rail history, most railroad operation has been by private industry, combined with all the factors mentioned above, rail history here is so varied.
The Maryland and Pennsylvania RR was still using wooden truss rod passenger cars in the 1940's. Just one of many short lines of the 40's, and even early 50's that were time capsules of 1915.
The B&O ran rebuilt heavyweight passenger cars until AMTRAK, while other roads had relegated heavyweights to M of W service before the 60's.
Example of my problem with the whole era concept, if an era is from 1950 to 1960, do you mark a locomotive built for the first time in 1958 as being suitible for that era? It surely is not correct for most of that era.
In the older eras, Hattons had ranges of 25 years on more. The face of railroading in 1935 was nothing like 1910.
IF, this is so important, or useful, would it not be just as easy to put "range of use" years specific to a particular piece of eqiupment as modeled and lettered?
Sheldon
Tin Can IIAnd as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources.
I must be one of the few who have absolutely no loyalty to retailers. The only service I really demand is to have quick shipping and the ability to return a defective product. Since they all offer that as efficiently as Ebay retailers do, it all comes down to price and availability to me.....and website interaction.
As mentioned, I didn't care for some of the MTS loyalty programs. So if MTS comes back again, I'll check them out....and they may gain a customer they didn't have before. I suspect others will check out the new site/ownership, if that's what's going on here...
- Douglas
I'm assuming that there is some core to the MTS operation that has value to somebody. But it only takes $1 to buy the rights/ownership to something, so who knows what prices were paid for the MTS brand....assuming its not some reincarnation of Hatton's ownership restarting the brand.
It seems that something was spun off.
I could see InterMountain buying the name.....it would want a trusted yet generic name to sell its products through, as well as others' products if they are truly opening a full service store front.
tstage The only popcorn that's left is what's under the seats...along with the licorice jujubees.
The only popcorn that's left is what's under the seats...along with the licorice jujubees.
What about nonpareils?
Rich
Alton Junction
Sheldon nails it. The drop ship piece is the deal breaker. No distributor is going perform extra services without charging for those services. The extra cost will kill any meaningful discounts. Add the extra time to drop ship, and any competitive advantage the original MTS had is gone. And as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources.
I dealt with Walthers, Great Planes, and Horizon as distributors at my shop. I made inquiries of Lifelike (not owned by Walthers at the time) to buy direct. Sure, they would be glad to do so. Provide proof that I had bought $40,000 worth of Lifelike products a month for six months from my distributors, and then Lifelike would sell me $40,000 worth of stuff moving forward. That is a LOT of product and a lot of cash. I doubt that I sold $40,000 worth of Lifelike products in the three years I was open. Hattons may be experiencing a similar issue, with slightly higher inventory requirements, and they may have significant cash issues.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
rrebell Many a leveraged buy out has gone bust with only the name remaining, Toys Are Us is a prime example or a buisness fails like Bed Bath And Beyond and only the name remains.
Many a leveraged buy out has gone bust with only the name remaining, Toys Are Us is a prime example or a buisness fails like Bed Bath And Beyond and only the name remains.
While it is true that some deals didn't work out (particularly when the acquired complany was already on the ropes) there have been many more mergers, acquisitions and buyouts that have been successful.
As I have said a couple of times it seems to me that Hattons has a plan. We just need to wait to see what it is and if it will work.
Rick
hbgatsf Almost a year ago I had asked how product distribution worked in the hobby. See https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/295076.aspx. Between the answers in that thread, this one, and the Tony's thread I have learned a lot. I also know corportate finance. I find it hard to believe that Hattons did not do their due dillegence when purchasing MTS, especially if they had to outbid Intermountain. Stuff happens and they had a problem with the UK operation and shipments from China, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a plan in the US that is playing out. MTS was one of the sites that only sold items that they had physically in stock. That changed when Hattons got involved. Items started shipping from Nebraska, even splitting orders. It looks to me that Hattons sold off what was in stock in Cockeysville and supplemented that stock with items from Nebraska. They obviously didn't do the transaction for the real estate since that is shuttered. The message on the MTS website today hints that they did want the name. We are about to see what their plan has been. Edit - I don't know why the link I put in doesn't work. I used the insert link button. If someone tells me what I did wrong I'll fix it.
Almost a year ago I had asked how product distribution worked in the hobby. See https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/295076.aspx. Between the answers in that thread, this one, and the Tony's thread I have learned a lot.
I also know corportate finance. I find it hard to believe that Hattons did not do their due dillegence when purchasing MTS, especially if they had to outbid Intermountain. Stuff happens and they had a problem with the UK operation and shipments from China, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a plan in the US that is playing out.
MTS was one of the sites that only sold items that they had physically in stock. That changed when Hattons got involved. Items started shipping from Nebraska, even splitting orders. It looks to me that Hattons sold off what was in stock in Cockeysville and supplemented that stock with items from Nebraska.
They obviously didn't do the transaction for the real estate since that is shuttered. The message on the MTS website today hints that they did want the name. We are about to see what their plan has been.
Edit - I don't know why the link I put in doesn't work. I used the insert link button. If someone tells me what I did wrong I'll fix it.
Rick,
In my view, everything Hattons did here in North America was a mis-step.
European terms in their ads, thinking that an "era" based system would work or would help, ads that practically preyed on the widows of modelers with large collections, and possibly the idea that they could be in the drop ship business.
As I have explained several times, I can't imagine any of the big North American players going for that.
As explained in that other thread and here - to sell at the lowest prices you need to buy at the lowest prices.
The big players are not going to give the lowest prices and then do your shipping and inventory control for you.
They give their best prices to the big retailers who take case lots as soon as the container is unpacked from China.
I don't buy from a lot of different places, especially at this point in the hobby for me, but I don't have any indication that anyone is having any large amount of product drop shipped.
In fact, it makes little sense, despite the direction Kleins went, some of the biggest retailers on the web still have brick and mortar stores - they need the inventory there so they can sell it out the front door or the back door.
If Hattons was filling orders from that distributor in Nebraska, their margins were too small.
Why would that company sell even a penny below the prices they are selling to small shops if they have to drop ship small orders?
In this business the drop ship thing simply does not add up on a large scale.
OK, maybe an arrangement for "emerency" special orders with some extra charge, but as the whole business model? I think not.
The sales volume of any one sku does not support the idea.
I would love to see it return if it's as good as before (or even better).
Paul
Yeah, it is a site glitch.
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/295076.aspx
Corrected by adding a html code in brackets as in this example:
cs.trains/url by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
It is much easier to sell a business which is ongoing. Harder to sell one which is having a "going out of business sale" or which has closed down.
People hear the name and immediately think "Oh, that one is closed," end of the story.
I've witnessed people walk up to a storefront, see it is empty and turn around and walk away. They didn't bother to go any further and missed the sheet of paper on the door stating the business had moved a few doors down.
Everyone is posting the "we'll be back", but are they getting a cached page or a new one? It is also possible it is serving up an older version of the website.
A return with a greater probability?
Water Level Route richhotrain So, I ask, what would be the appeal to a buyer? The name? Absolutely. Happens with some regularity in business. An established name brand is very valuable. (In this case an established and well known internet presence.)
richhotrain So, I ask, what would be the appeal to a buyer? The name?
Absolutely. Happens with some regularity in business. An established name brand is very valuable. (In this case an established and well known internet presence.)
richhotrainSo, I ask, what would be the appeal to a buyer? The name?
Mike
Here is what I don't get.
Klein wants to close down.
Hatton's steps in and buys Klein.
Hatton's goes bye bye.
Klein's closes down.
No, wait, Kleins is reorganizing.
No, wait, Kleins is reopening.
Or, is it?
Maybe it is selling itself?
To Intermountain?
So, I ask, what would be the appeal to a buyer?
The name?
So now what? Intermountain to the rescue
Hattons has a change of heart
Or the Klein sisters have sellers remorse? (sarcasm)
More plot twists and turns than a 80s prime time soap. You cannot make this stuff up!
Jim
hbgatsf richhotrain What a total fiasco! Rich Maybe, or they had a plan all along which is about to play out.
richhotrain What a total fiasco! Rich
What a total fiasco!
Maybe, or they had a plan all along which is about to play out.
For us golfers, this is like LIV and the PGA Tour.
Maybe Hattons has sold what remains to Intermountain.
Maybe Hattons realized in all this that they don't have any idea how to sell model trains in North America.
Since Intermountain apparently expressed interest, it makes sense. Intermountain was once a small distributor, and does sell to retail customers if you call up and ask to buy stuff.
Sounds like they have a definate interest in becoming like Bowser, competitive online retailer and Manufacturer. This could springboard them into this senerio.
I don't have any knowledge of Hattons before their first ads in the US, but they did really approach things wrong from every standpoint. They simply were arrogant or misinformed about things over here.
But if Intermoutain is the new owner/operator, the physical plant will no doubt move to Colorado.
This could actually be a very good thing....... If they fix the web site so you can find stuff with surfing thru 15 pages.
As of this morning:
York1 John
This is an update on the modeltrainstuff.com website..
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
Says they're coming back...
We shall see..
Neal
thanks for posting. the pics of the old store were nice to see. It was a great train shop.
I guy on another forum posted a link to his info on the closure if MBK. The info I took away that I didn't know were the following.- when the owner of MBK, Ted Klein, died in 2020, his long time girlfriend took over as owner, and when she died her daughters became the owners. They wanted to sell it and be out of the business.- per this guy, Intermountain was interested in buying MBK but was outbid by Hattons.conrail1285.com/so-what-happened-to-mb-klein/