richhotrain I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse?
I'm probably mistaken, but I thought that their "warehouse" was actually at the back of their store, and all that happened was that they no longer were open for walk-in customers.
I/we used to stop there on our way home from the Timonium train show, and the variety of displayed items continued to shrink. To order, they had computer stations where you looked up what you wanted, wrote down the item number if the item was available, gave that to one of the workers, and they would go into the back and bring it out.
Or, if you were smart enough to check availability before getting there, you just gave your list to the worker.
Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available.
And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman.
I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH.
Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website.
Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH.
Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse?
Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence.
Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well.
Rich
Alton Junction
AEP528And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
- Douglas
AEP528 richhotrain AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS? Au Contraire! https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/ And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true?
richhotrain AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS? Au Contraire! https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/
AEP528 Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement? What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's. Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS?
Nothing on Factory Direct Hobbies website or Facebook page mention it. All I've seen online are screenshots allegedly from emails. Is there any company involved in this mess that is capable of making a clear public statement?
What makes this particularly weird is that Hatton's itself announced it was closing, and Rails of Sheffield announced it had acquired what remains of Hatton's.
Why can't anyone clearly state what's happening with MBK/MTS?
Au Contraire!
https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/news/model-train-stuff-to-reopen-under-factory-direct-hobbies-family/
And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true?
https://www.facebook.com/MBKModelTrainStuff/posts/pfbid02jNf5mh9haThG375Vtoq9zRWNqJwRYMraNohu2DPKeCUhVhg7vsEKhivV2j6N85SDl
And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
And yet still nothing on either website or their own social media. Is this even true? And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
gmpullman The latest word is that Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it. Regards, Ed
The latest word is that Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it.
Regards, Ed
The latest word is that Joe Grubba from Factory Direct Trains has purchased the ModelTrainStuff site and whatever else goes with it.
nealknows While they've adjusted some of their retails up, they still have some great deals. You just need to watch the site and stay on the mailing list...
While they've adjusted some of their retails up, they still have some great deals. You just need to watch the site and stay on the mailing list...
Yes, they still have great prices just like always. And they still have closeouts, but the whole dynamic of that has shifted with the advent of preorders and smaller production runs.
Years ago I remember buying undecorated Proto2000 FA1/FB1 sets for about $59, the retail was about $159
Sheldon
I'm sure that TW still has a "close out" element to their business, but with pre-order and limited productions being the norm now, I'd think that manufacturers would have few times where they ever produce more product than can be sold....at least not a lot of excess product by which a retailer can survive on.
"There’s a reason why we at TrainWorld.com are known as the “Closeout Kings” of the model train industry."
https://www.trainworld.com/model-train-sale.html
wjstix Ken Patterson had a guest on his weekly podcast / YouTube show from the UK who made an interesting point. She compared Hatton's in the UK to TrainWorld here. TrainWorld are "the closeout kings" and Hatton's apparently was the same - they specialized in buying overstock items from manufacturers, and selling them at discounted prices. However, in recent years, manufacturers have shifted to pretty much only making enough product to cover pre-orders; the days of overstocking items and the resultant sales kinda ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5iI6i2ZkFk
Ken Patterson had a guest on his weekly podcast / YouTube show from the UK who made an interesting point. She compared Hatton's in the UK to TrainWorld here. TrainWorld are "the closeout kings" and Hatton's apparently was the same - they specialized in buying overstock items from manufacturers, and selling them at discounted prices. However, in recent years, manufacturers have shifted to pretty much only making enough product to cover pre-orders; the days of overstocking items and the resultant sales kinda ended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5iI6i2ZkFk
And TrainWorld has shifted from the "closeout" business model to everyday low prices like all the other bigger discount web dealers.
BigDaddy I've read on another forum that from an anonymous source that worked at MTS until the end that Intermountain was in the running.
I've read on another forum that from an anonymous source that worked at MTS until the end that Intermountain was in the running.
Intermountain stated on another forum that;
"We've read with slight amusement that InterMountain was somehow involved with the past few months happenings at MB Klein. Perhaps people that used to be involved with InterMountain made an offer for Kleins but the current ownership (almost a decade now) and team had nothing to do with the happenings at Klein. We were involved in no way; none. Just want to end the speculation and rumors. "
An "expensive model collector"
kasskaboose Does anyone know the record for most responses to a thread?
Does anyone know the record for most responses to a thread?
Tin Can II Sheldon nails it. The drop ship piece is the deal breaker. No distributor is going perform extra services without charging for those services. The extra cost will kill any meaningful discounts. Add the extra time to drop ship, and any competitive advantage the original MTS had is gone. And as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources. I dealt with Walthers, Great Planes, and Horizon as distributors at my shop. I made inquiries of Lifelike (not owned by Walthers at the time) to buy direct. Sure, they would be glad to do so. Provide proof that I had bought $40,000 worth of Lifelike products a month for six months from my distributors, and then Lifelike would sell me $40,000 worth of stuff moving forward. That is a LOT of product and a lot of cash. I doubt that I sold $40,000 worth of Lifelike products in the three years I was open. Hattons may be experiencing a similar issue, with slightly higher inventory requirements, and they may have significant cash issues.
Sheldon nails it. The drop ship piece is the deal breaker. No distributor is going perform extra services without charging for those services. The extra cost will kill any meaningful discounts. Add the extra time to drop ship, and any competitive advantage the original MTS had is gone. And as the interlude/intermission/reorganization continues, thousands of old MTS customers have moved on to find new online sources.
I dealt with Walthers, Great Planes, and Horizon as distributors at my shop. I made inquiries of Lifelike (not owned by Walthers at the time) to buy direct. Sure, they would be glad to do so. Provide proof that I had bought $40,000 worth of Lifelike products a month for six months from my distributors, and then Lifelike would sell me $40,000 worth of stuff moving forward. That is a LOT of product and a lot of cash. I doubt that I sold $40,000 worth of Lifelike products in the three years I was open. Hattons may be experiencing a similar issue, with slightly higher inventory requirements, and they may have significant cash issues.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
riogrande5761 A guy on another forum commented: "it would be great if responsible good businessmen took it over. I think instead we may see a Caboose Hobbies - Caboose situation, if anything happens at all." That seems to be the trend when a successful shop is taken over by a new proprietor. The guy who used to run Allied Hobbies in southern California has commented on how successful his shop was but when he sold it to someone else, it went downhill quickly. And Caboose made a splash claiming to be Caboose Hobbies 2 with a long history yada yada, but it was nothing of the kind and didn't last long. Customers reported within a year or two of opening, the shelves were pretty empty and not getting restocked. Reportedly COVID was the coup de grace, but it may have only hastened what was inevitable. It seems the "secret sauce" is with the proprietor in determining the success of any model train hobby shop. It appears from the note on the modeltrainstuff site they plan to return. But based on my observatoins over past decades, I'm not holding my breath. Modeltrainstuff will have to re-earn the good will of their past customers. I know I would tread with caution if/when they reopen. I remember when Caboose opened after Caboose Hobbies closed, I check them out and frankly didn't see any incentive to order from them. They didn't have prices comparable for one thing. In the end, I am glad I didn't order from Caboose because I read reports of orders not getting fulfilled. ISE, the makers of ProtoThrottle wrote an essay on how they had sent product to Caboose and never received payment as well as one of the owners of ISE never got several engines he paid for, nor got a refund.
A guy on another forum commented: "it would be great if responsible good businessmen took it over. I think instead we may see a Caboose Hobbies - Caboose situation, if anything happens at all."
That seems to be the trend when a successful shop is taken over by a new proprietor. The guy who used to run Allied Hobbies in southern California has commented on how successful his shop was but when he sold it to someone else, it went downhill quickly.
And Caboose made a splash claiming to be Caboose Hobbies 2 with a long history yada yada, but it was nothing of the kind and didn't last long. Customers reported within a year or two of opening, the shelves were pretty empty and not getting restocked. Reportedly COVID was the coup de grace, but it may have only hastened what was inevitable.
It seems the "secret sauce" is with the proprietor in determining the success of any model train hobby shop. It appears from the note on the modeltrainstuff site they plan to return. But based on my observatoins over past decades, I'm not holding my breath. Modeltrainstuff will have to re-earn the good will of their past customers.
I know I would tread with caution if/when they reopen. I remember when Caboose opened after Caboose Hobbies closed, I check them out and frankly didn't see any incentive to order from them. They didn't have prices comparable for one thing. In the end, I am glad I didn't order from Caboose because I read reports of orders not getting fulfilled. ISE, the makers of ProtoThrottle wrote an essay on how they had sent product to Caboose and never received payment as well as one of the owners of ISE never got several engines he paid for, nor got a refund.
Yes, the "secret sauce" is knowledge, good customer service, and enough capital. You can't sell what you don't have, contrary to crazy ideas about pre-orders and drop shipping.
To sell at the best prices and make a profit, you need to buy at the best prices. That requires volume, and that requires cash.
Try to run a model train store on borrowed money and you will go broke. I suspect that is one of the issues with these people who takeover these established shops.
You need low overhead and zero debt service.
And it helps if you do not need to earn a living doing this.....
maxman And he'll have fun, fun, fun til his daddy takes the keyboard away.
And he'll have fun, fun, fun til his daddy takes the keyboard away.
hon30critter richhotrain Dave, hon30critter, has 1,133 on his long running Snow Plow Scratchbuild thread, about 90% of which are his own replies. I'm sure there are several people on the forums who would love to take my keyboard away!! Cheers!! Dave
richhotrain Dave, hon30critter, has 1,133 on his long running Snow Plow Scratchbuild thread, about 90% of which are his own replies.
I'm sure there are several people on the forums who would love to take my keyboard away!!
Cheers!!
Dave
wjstix ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example of my problem with the whole era concept, if an era is from 1950 to 1960, do you mark a locomotive built for the first time in 1958 as being suitible for that era? It surely is not correct for most of that era. Although I agree that the suggested time 'eras' Hatton's proposed aren't great, I think the concept itself has value. As to how it would work, I think it would have as much to do with decoration as with when something was built. Let's take a CB&Q SD-9 built in say 1955. It would have been delivered in the Burlington's black and gray scheme. Perhaps in the 1960s, it went through a major shopping and was repainted into the Chinese red and gray scheme. In the 1970s and 80s, it was green and black and lettered for Burlington Northern. In the late 90's, it would be repainted into BNSF orange and green. For someone new to the hobby, this might be confusing. They know SD-9s were built in the 1950s, but may not understand that doesn't mean that a BNSF SD-9 would be appropriate for a transition era layout. Having some type of marking on the package as to the time the model is correct for would be helpful.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example of my problem with the whole era concept, if an era is from 1950 to 1960, do you mark a locomotive built for the first time in 1958 as being suitible for that era? It surely is not correct for most of that era.
Although I agree that the suggested time 'eras' Hatton's proposed aren't great, I think the concept itself has value. As to how it would work, I think it would have as much to do with decoration as with when something was built.
Let's take a CB&Q SD-9 built in say 1955. It would have been delivered in the Burlington's black and gray scheme. Perhaps in the 1960s, it went through a major shopping and was repainted into the Chinese red and gray scheme. In the 1970s and 80s, it was green and black and lettered for Burlington Northern. In the late 90's, it would be repainted into BNSF orange and green.
For someone new to the hobby, this might be confusing. They know SD-9s were built in the 1950s, but may not understand that doesn't mean that a BNSF SD-9 would be appropriate for a transition era layout. Having some type of marking on the package as to the time the model is correct for would be helpful.
And again, I will repeat my view. If someone is going to do the research to put a model in an "era" it should be just as easy to put model specific info on the package.
This responsibility belongs to the manufacturer, not some random "retailer" who thinks his view best.
Agreed, paint schemes have a lot to do with era.
ATLANTIC CENTRALExample of my problem with the whole era concept, if an era is from 1950 to 1960, do you mark a locomotive built for the first time in 1958 as being suitible for that era? It surely is not correct for most of that era.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrainDave, hon30critter, has 1,133 on his long running Snow Plow Scratchbuild thread, about 90% of which are his own replies.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
A lot more than this thread.......
Dave, hon30critter, has 1,133 on his long running Snow Plow Scratchbuild thread, about 90% of which are his own replies.