rrebellBy not letting people discuss what is going on in the world.
I strongly disagree with this. I come here to escape the real world.
Some light-hearted chatter in the diner is fine, but I agree with the list of banned topics.
To paraphrase our host... The place where Model Railroaders can go to discuss what is going on in the world is literally everywhere else on the internet.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Part of the problem is the forum culture. By not letting people discuss what is going on in the world and their lives, it limits the participation. Management thinks they need to do something about it when a thread goes south but if it is not important to others, then the thread will just die anyway. The best way to handle trolls is to handle them, not the others that may want to discuss stuff.
gregci'm curious about the willingness for people to post something, answer a quesiton which may already have been answered. (why "waste your breath")...
gregc...and how to provide comments that penetrate through such noise
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
In spring and summer months, without my making it do so, my mind automatically checks out of the hobby. It just does.
Now, as I'm down, nursing a case of plantar fasciitis, I thought I'd take a look-see on the general discussion.
To me, participation (commenting) in any topics that interest me is a part of the overall hobby which itself is entertainment. So the forum provides a place to gather and share info about the hobby. share progress, and so is part of the intertainment.
When topics turn negative or simply don't interest me, I just dismiss them. I don't see this discussion as such, or I wouldn't be commenting.
This forum is still my only public involvement site where discussing model RRing is concerned. Dan
These last posts remind me that Sheldon ("ATLANTIC CENTRAL") has last posted 4 weeks ago. It is very rare not to hear from him in such a long time. I hope everything is alright.
JW
gregci've learned to write scripts that extract useful information from gigabyte log files to debug software problems
Yes, I'm sure you did.
The issue I see is that it is hard to extract useful information from something in which no useful information exists.
SeeYou190 BATMAN Occasionally we get a self-appointed policeman that thinks the forum should operate "in his image".
BATMAN Occasionally we get a self-appointed policeman that thinks the forum should operate "in his image".
as i initially said, i am surprised by the large, often > 100 posts / thread on the MRH forum and why is it different on other forums.
i think the large number dicourages others willing to comment (at least me) and make the thread less informative because of the large # or likley repetitive or social comments
and again, i think threads such as the Diner thread are helpful to the forum because they provides a place for social discourse which keeps most threads on topic and more informative
i'm curious about the willingness for people to post something, answer a quesiton which may already have been answered. (why "waste your breath") and how to provide comments that penetrate through such noise
the other metric to consider, which i didn't evaluate, is the length of the post. some are succinct, others are verbose.
maxmanI am surprised that anyone would actually have the time and energy to do a survey like this.
i've learned to write scripts that extract useful information from gigabyte log files to debug software problems
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregcthe MR electronics forum has an average of 8.3 comments / thread. MR protoype 13.4, MR layout 18.9. the MR general discuss forum has 62.5, but only 22.3 if the Diner and Snow Plow threads are ignored. as mentioned, the MRH forum has 73 comments/thread.
I am surprised that anyone would actually have the time and energy to do a survey like this. Seems to me that there must certainly better things to do.
That said, my opinion is that the number of comments per thread is a flawed measurement of interest.
If an interesting question is posted and the first response answers the question, what does it matter if there are only a few additional comments?
And did you consider views per thread? If a particular post generates only 10 comments but is viewed 500 times, does this not indicate that there is interest?
Or is viewing not considered participation?
BATMANOccasionally we get a self-appointed policeman that thinks the forum should operate "in his image".
I have never seen one of these, but I have only been here a few years.
Steve and Tom are the only people that I have seen police the forum.
Randy was very kind and more importantly for me a patient educator. We exchanged many emails as he tried to help me to get my electrons moving the way they should.
Whether it is the diner or any other thread, we have an international audience here and a vast array of personalities. Occasionally we get a self-appointed policeman that thinks the forum should operate "in his image". No one is making us read what is posted here, if a particular poster gets your back up, don't read their post, it is just that easy.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Don't forget that we have lost valued and knowledgeable members who shared their expertise and artistry with us. Most of those whose names appear on the Diner's RIP Track were known to many of us, and some of them are kind of irreplaceable. The Electronics and DCC forum was a much busier place while Randy was around, for example.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
gregcthe MR electronics forum has an average of 8.3 comments / thread. MR protoype 13.4, MR layout 18.9. the MR general discuss forum has 62.5, but only 22.3 if the Diner and Snow Plow threads are ignored. as mentioned, the MRH forum has 73 comments/thread. i'm not sure how much these averages depend on the size of the community.
That's interesting. I'd guess the difference is due to the size of the community. Which is probably related to content.
It may be related to how easy it is to post pictures. A technical thread probably benefits from images over a long string of sentences. Thereby inviting more "how to" threads and threads with specific modeling interests to discuss.
- Douglas
Geared Steam tstage Why can't regulars get interesting discussions going? I think THAT would attract new members. Talk about projects or a layout idea you're working on. Ask questions about problems you're running into or haven't cracked yet. Post an interesting find or question in the Prototype forum. Review a new locomotive or piece of rolling stock you recently purchased. Sadly, those are the threads that typically die first. And, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me. Everyone has something to offer the forum community that they've gleaned through their modeling experiences on a given topic or topics - however significant or insignficant that experience may be. I've found there is always something to learn and I don't care who I learn it from. I'm also not shy about sharing what I've found works for me. Tom Because there are a few members here that will fillibuster a good thread with their opinion(s) and not stop until everyone either gives in or just stops posting on the subject. Regardless of what many believe is useful information, is not, especially after the same infomation is posted over and over for years, so much that we already know what the next reply will say. There's a fine line between useful information, and self serving egotistical members who are not open to new ways or technology. I browse the DCC forum every now and then, but since Randy (RIP) is gone I have found less interesting subjects to engage in. Take it or leave it, I probably wouldnt notice if this forum disappeared tomorrow, forums have taken a backseat to other social media thats available. Thats where the new and young modelers are, not so much here.
tstage Why can't regulars get interesting discussions going? I think THAT would attract new members. Talk about projects or a layout idea you're working on. Ask questions about problems you're running into or haven't cracked yet. Post an interesting find or question in the Prototype forum. Review a new locomotive or piece of rolling stock you recently purchased. Sadly, those are the threads that typically die first. And, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me. Everyone has something to offer the forum community that they've gleaned through their modeling experiences on a given topic or topics - however significant or insignficant that experience may be. I've found there is always something to learn and I don't care who I learn it from. I'm also not shy about sharing what I've found works for me. Tom
Why can't regulars get interesting discussions going? I think THAT would attract new members. Talk about projects or a layout idea you're working on. Ask questions about problems you're running into or haven't cracked yet. Post an interesting find or question in the Prototype forum. Review a new locomotive or piece of rolling stock you recently purchased. Sadly, those are the threads that typically die first.
And, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me. Everyone has something to offer the forum community that they've gleaned through their modeling experiences on a given topic or topics - however significant or insignficant that experience may be.
I've found there is always something to learn and I don't care who I learn it from. I'm also not shy about sharing what I've found works for me.
Tom
Because there are a few members here that will fillibuster a good thread with their opinion(s) and not stop until everyone either gives in or just stops posting on the subject. Regardless of what many believe is useful information, is not, especially after the same infomation is posted over and over for years, so much that we already know what the next reply will say. There's a fine line between useful information, and self serving egotistical members who are not open to new ways or technology. I browse the DCC forum every now and then, but since Randy (RIP) is gone I have found less interesting subjects to engage in.
Take it or leave it, I probably wouldnt notice if this forum disappeared tomorrow, forums have taken a backseat to other social media thats available. Thats where the new and young modelers are, not so much here.
Really? Those few (or is it one) poster drives you away from an entire thread, or even forum? Since I know what they are going to say, I usually pass over the comment like I do when I read anything when I know the outcome.
I don't watch a movie when I know how its going to end (unless I like it), but I don't stop watching movies or boycott a specific channel just because that movie is shown a lot.
I think other forums probably gather members because of the subject matter being discussed. Afterall, social media is just words on a screen and a keyboard.
I've always thought that this forum was heavily dominated by steam and transistion era interests, so I don't participate in it as much as I used to.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
MisterBeasleyHow much of the difference between this forum and others is because of our age?
certainly there are forums that attract younger people, but my observations are about MR forums
the MR electronics forum has an average of 8.3 comments / thread. MR protoype 13.4, MR layout 18.9. the MR general discuss forum has 62.5, but only 22.3 if the Diner and Snow Plow threads are ignored.
as mentioned, the MRH forum has 73 comments/thread. i'm not sure how much these averages depend on the size of the community.
it seems the more technical forums have fewer comments but unless there's a particular forum/thread (e.g. Diner) for off-topic comments, any forum may have more comments due to social interaction
i also particpate in the Arduino Programming Questions forum. i think there are many retirees who particpate, possibly seeking social activity. (i think of it as a puzzle) many provide well focused and educational comments. others seem to make more general suggestions without providing specifics which i'm not google wouldn't have been just as helpful.
I just have to comment this about the diner (which I mainly lurk in.) It reminds me of our railroad club. The most popular room is our club room where we just sit and talk. Half the time it's not about trains either. It's often far more popular than running trains and there are guys in there that run a train about a couple of times a year. So the diner isn't all that unusual....
I followed the Trains forum for years, but didn't folow the MR forum as I was more of an armchair modeler. Then I found myself as the moderator of a youth model railroad club. Suddenly I had questions about the best way of attaching roadbed and track, and got them quickly answered after asking on this forum. I now get lots of info on this forum. I think a lot of different people get a lot of varied value from these threads and it's hard to second guess what they get out of it.
The value I get out of this forum is that when I am confronted with the next new aspect of the hobby -- first it was track planning, then benchwork, then track laying, soldering, wiring, and on and on -- I can ask how you fellas have done it (or how you wish you had done it) and I always get "actionable intelligence" pretty quickly.
The diner doesn't interest me that much, but it might if my life moved at a slower rate. The photo threads are great but I don't feel much like contributing because you've all seen my little loop a million times and until I build my town and get to creating some scenery it just doesn't seem worth sharing -- despite very gracious urgings from members to post photos anyway.
I also dip into most threads that promise to be of a how-to nature if I think that it may be an issue I might encounter someday. And I like to keep abreast of problems that people have with specific products. So for me the big draw is the availability of several centuries' worth of combined modelling experience.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
How much of the difference between this forum and others is because of our age? I think we're still learning social skills as we get older, skills that many in the younger generation, despite their computer literacy have not yet mastered.
It took a while for me to get into the "social" aspects of the Diner, but now, I spend as much time there as anywhere. I think the other threads have become slower and less popular over the years, but I still read many just to see what people are up to. I still contribute occasionally, although I haven't bought anything new in a lot of years and my knowledge base, once pretty good, is no longer up to date.
My main activity here is looking at pictures of people's models and layouts. That has always been one of the things that attracted me to model railroading in the first place. I am far more interested in the models than in real life railroading. So keep posting about your layouts and your models. I would like to see more of them posted here.
SeeYou190DC wiring and control. Detail painting and figure painting. Craftsman kit and scratchbuilt structures. Benchwork construction. Scenery. Crazy character-filled models with no prototype at all.
I think your comment speaks to some of the reasons for a changing culture. Most of what you listed was pretty common tasks 20 years ago. Now, tasks seem to be more specific.
With RTR models and specific details, the generic..."how do I add grab irons to a diesel locomotive" doesn't get asked much anymore. Common questions have been balkanized into a bunch of niche questions...and therefore less popular as a whole.
And more variety of everything, with people settling into methods that are not as universally common as before. A question about operating trains could cover DC to Arduino......separating into a bunch of niche topics.
When I look at the front page of the General Discussions section, its usually a lot of niche type of threads, many of which I'm not interested in.
If there was a discussion about the best way to add FRA stripes to turn a circa 2005 car into something more appropriate for 2015, I'd probably participate in that thread. Very niche though.
On most of the newer threads about model railroading I have not had much to add to the conversation.
My areas of experience are:
N scale 30 years ago.
DC wiring and control.
Detail painting and figure painting.
Craftsman kit and scratchbuilt structures.
Benchwork construction.
Scenery.
Crazy character-filled models with no prototype at all.
I am no good at track planning, I am not fluent in anything DCC related, and I do not understand signalling.
I try to only post answers based on real experience and what I have learned from actually building things. I shy away from theoretical discussions.
I like to share pictures of what I have done even though my modelling is not as good as others that share. The environment of shared modelling is one of my favorite features of this forum.
I lurked on this forum for some time before I joined to ask a question regarding a particular prototype practice.
I did not lurk here long before I joined.
However, I have been lurking on a photography forum for over a decade learning and harvesting ideas and techniques.
I do not have anywhere near enough experience or ability to contribute to that group.
When the whole idea of the Kalmbach trains Forums (and similar forums) was bright and new, it was pretty exciting because of the speed with which a question or a topic could generate comment, pictures, tutorials, interesting links. It was being compared to the ponderous speed of the magazine world where January's question finally got a response in April. That was also a time when the internet it self was still a novelty and there were train enthusiasts and modelers who spent huge amounts of time posting information that otherwise would be almost impossible to track down.
Now it is old hat and we are getting jaded. So there is not much use wishing it would be like it used to be, because the whole environment has changed.
Now there was of course a downside to that early era. There were certain immature individuals who found that if they posted naughty words on a Friday evening they wouldn't get taken down until Monday morning. That was very tiresome. Those sorts of people now have, shall we say, other outlets for their adolescent enthusiasms.
And certain habits of mind -- I guess you could call it Forum Culture -- got started early on and have lasted a long time. There was and sometimes still is excessive vehemence if in some way the "unwritten rules" are violated. At one time people would get pounced on if they asked a question or posted a topic that had already been covered. Maybe that made sense when the Forums were new and that prior post was just months ago. Now that this forum has tens of thousands of topics, and over two decades of postings, it gets harder and harder to find out if it is new or not, but that is still a pounceable offense it seems. I think this created a fear of posting anything unfortunately.
Another pounceable offense was reviving an old thread even if it meant making that thread a more complete and more accurate discussion of the topic at hand. There seems to be less fury about reviving old threads these days but not so long ago, it was cause for public shaming. Again the result was to create still another needless fear about posting.
And most ironic of all is that those two punishable offenses contradict each other. If you say, don't start a new thread when one already exists but then also say, don't add to an existing thread if it is old enough to constitute a revival, instead start a new thread ..... well -- OK, now what?
Dave Nelson
York1 tstage And, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me. Again, I guess this would be about me and several others. I post mainly in the Diner on topics not related to railroading. Occasionally I post on other threads when I feel like I can contribute, but that's not often. I had never considered that the Diner could bother some people. Sorry about that. I appreciate the Diner for the friends I've made there.
tstage And, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me.
Again, I guess this would be about me and several others. I post mainly in the Diner on topics not related to railroading. Occasionally I post on other threads when I feel like I can contribute, but that's not often.
I had never considered that the Diner could bother some people. Sorry about that. I appreciate the Diner for the friends I've made there.
FWIW, when I read the Diner, I think you post more railroady things than many of the regulars.
But I don't think the OP is talking about the Diner per se...one thread devoted to more nonrailroady topics.
I think he's probably commenting on the fact that the Diner thread is always by far the most populated thread, which is indicative of the forum's culture as a whole. The lack of other popular threads more MR related. Just my opinion of what his opinion is, in a nutshell.
tstageAnd, sadly, there are a handful of members on the more social-type threads who either mostly or exclusively post on them and nowhere else. While that's their preogative, it seems kind of a waste to me.
York1 John
gregc ...i wonder if the popularity of a forum more about the social interaction and culture than the topic of the forum
SeeYou190New people get the intersting discussions going.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I worry here what a shrink would say about the comments posted here.
maxmanCould be that they didn't like what was on the menu, or starved to death on the imaginary food.
How could anyone starve to death on the unlimited bacon, eggs, and beer, especially since it's free everytime the page changes?