gregc thread off topic?
Russell
rrebellwhy shut down one of the few threads realy active,
because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive
... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Also, why shut down one of the few threads realy active, you trying to put the final nail in this forum. We need more discusions to bring this forum back alive. If you don't like what you started, you move on, there is no law that says you have to ever revisit a thread you start! Now this is forum culture.....
Paul3 Um, Sheldon, you were the one posting DCC misinformation; saying things like every DCC loco decoder was $100 each, falsely inflating the price of DCC conversion back when we were comparing costs of DC vs. DCC. You also said things like DCC was being "forced" on modelers by MR (and other hobby media). Instead, MR was just following the path the hobby had taken. In the past, you have been on DCC-titled threads, making comments about using DC instead. Not much different then DCC users commenting on DC threads.Toggle flipping is still a thing; not everyone is an wiring expert like yourself. I think the number of users of your type of DC control system is probably less than the total number of Z-scalers. Heck, my club used toggle cab control for 45 years (1953-1998) before moving and switching to DCC in 1999. Your kind of DC control is quite advanced and needs no little skill to design, create, and maintain. You are gifted in that regard, but I think that is well beyond the average model railroader's skills. DCC, OTOH, is quite simple to set up and use by comparison, even for new people to the hobby.Sheldon, I'm just saying that it took a long time before you would give DCC the time of day on this forum. You definitely started here with a (DC vs. DCC) bang...
Um, Sheldon, you were the one posting DCC misinformation; saying things like every DCC loco decoder was $100 each, falsely inflating the price of DCC conversion back when we were comparing costs of DC vs. DCC.
You also said things like DCC was being "forced" on modelers by MR (and other hobby media). Instead, MR was just following the path the hobby had taken.
In the past, you have been on DCC-titled threads, making comments about using DC instead. Not much different then DCC users commenting on DC threads.Toggle flipping is still a thing; not everyone is an wiring expert like yourself. I think the number of users of your type of DC control system is probably less than the total number of Z-scalers. Heck, my club used toggle cab control for 45 years (1953-1998) before moving and switching to DCC in 1999. Your kind of DC control is quite advanced and needs no little skill to design, create, and maintain. You are gifted in that regard, but I think that is well beyond the average model railroader's skills. DCC, OTOH, is quite simple to set up and use by comparison, even for new people to the hobby.Sheldon, I'm just saying that it took a long time before you would give DCC the time of day on this forum. You definitely started here with a (DC vs. DCC) bang...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Forum culture - not enough talk about actual modeling for me these days - I'm doing my best to make time to build my layout. When the progress is interesting enough, I might post a picture or two.
Forum culture - not enough talk about actual modeling for me these days - I'm doing my best to make time to build my layout. When the progress is interesting enough, I might post a picture or two.
The irony of this comment is undoubtedly lost on the poster.
Geez, I hadn't been paying attention to the number of Views. 10,300 !
That is awesome. I implore the mods not to shut this baby down. If we keep our eyes on the prize, we could hit 100,000 Views. Keep those comments coming.
Rich
Alton Junction
SeeYou190 kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate. I have never seen this debate. There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs. I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way. However, it is right for me. gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit. -Kevin
kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate.
I have never seen this debate.
There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs.
I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way.
However, it is right for me.
gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
-Kevin
Long before you joined us, if a person asked a DC wiring question, like how to wire a reverse loop, or how to use power routing to kill dead end sidings, a large contingent of DCC users would chime in and tell the poster the best solution to their problem was simply to switch to DCC.
Or, if advanced DC users like myself or Chuck Beckman (tomikawaTT) explained in detail what we were doing and suggested the idea that it might suit the needs of some users, we were met will all sorts of ugly name calling.
I was told by one person that I was "threatening the future of the hobby" by suggesting DC might be a good choice for some.
I wrote pages of technical info on my control system only to have it deleted by moderators.
So yes, I got defensive at times.
It also became tiresome to have to have misinformation about DC posted all the time by DCC users who had never used DC.
Stuff like you have to rewire engines to run them back to back, or you can't run multiple powered units in a consist, and of course my favorite, the warnings against the dreaded "toggle flipping".
56 years at this and my DC layouts with multiple trains in multiple blocks have never used "toggle switches", but what do I know? They have used several different systems to assign throttles to blocks - but not toggle switches.
I recommend DCC to new people also. I realize most new people are not interested in prototype operation, CTC, detection, signaling or taking the time to learn what they don't know about electrical control systems - and I'm not really interested in teaching them anyway.
I've used DCC, on lots of different layouts. It has its pluses and minuses.
But since I'm not interested in sound, and I am interested in CTC, DCC does not offer much that I can't do just as well with DC and wireless radio throttles.
See you next week, or next month....
Sheldon
Unfortunately most long threads tend to be about debates and filled with opinions. I seldom participate and when I do I don't bother reading more than the previous page at most.
Long threads discussing actual useful information, like protype practices et al, are rare but are great finds when I come across them.
It irritates me to no end when people give strange or mysterious titles to their posts. I like organization and prefer threads with accurate titles as well as ones that remain on point. If you want to discuss something else, start a new thread.
gregcever since i started looking at forums, i thought it would be interesting to read what a psychologist thought about them. each seems to have it's own characteristics. fortunately, they've found ways to prevent/discourage abusing and even inconsiderate posters. but i see different cultures on MR forums i watch in terms of # of posts and relavence to the thread topic, as well as other, more techinical forums (e.g. Arduino Programming Questions) what i find surprising is the large # of comments on a typical MRH thread. i checked recently and found the average # post/thread to be 73 and not uncommon to see 200+ while threads describing someone's particular RR, started years ago have far greater comments (e.g. 800+)
Greg, I found your initial post a good one as I notice numbers in everything I do regardless of the relevance of them to any given situation. My 24-year-old son makes big bucks as an executive and his ability to annalize makes him a very valuable asset when it comes to big data. He doubled up on the numbers thing as his Mom is also a human calculator.
I think any shrink would say that human nature is fickle and most lack the ability for any meaningful critical thinking while at the same time jumping on any bandwagon that is criticizing anything.
This was a good Filosophy Phriday question that would make for a good conversation with a small group sharing a good bottle of scotch.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
gregc time to shut down this thread ?? ¼ Cheers, the Bear.
gregc time to shut down this thread ??
it is kinda fun reading, especially from a cultural standpoint.
gregctime to shut down this thread ??
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Please do.
time to shut down this thread ??
rrebellyou know you can get an 86" TV now for $1200.00 brand new.
Now if they could just put on something worthwhile to watch to make that $1,200 TV worth purchasing...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
kasskabooseSee the fun DC vs. DCC debate.
gzygadloWhole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
Living the dream.
I find myself coming here occasionally, along with the MRH forum. I found on the MRH forum that they are not too accommodating to new people to the hobby and that if your radius is prototypical, they refer to it as toy trains, so I stopped posting over there at all.
This forum I find is not as bad as MRH, but at times opinions seem to overrule, but not all the time.
Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
There are always more constructive ways to offer advice. Suggestions someone offers others can decide to take (or not). I strongly believe we all have something to share on this forum. Keeping things civil is always easier than than done (see the fun DC vs. DCC debate), but the important thing is appreciating this hobby and keeping an open discussion.
OvermodYou wanted a psychologist, you got one, and now you're complaining about their answer?...Perhaps that addresses gregc's original question...
I doubt it.
BATMANThere are people that have opinions on how much of a layout should be scratch-built to qualify you as a true modeler railroader.
There is no qualification to be a Model Railroader other that having/enjoying models of railroad equipment.
If all you own is fishing gear, and all you do with your leisure time is go fishing, then you are not a Model Railroader.
I need to stop before I get too far into this.
maxman BATMAN I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day And you still haven't figured out that chord?
BATMAN I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day
And you still haven't figured out that chord?
LOL
It's only been 55 years.....soon.
BATMAN when I was a kid we had the egg man, the bread man, and the milkman deliver to the house
When I was a kid the lady next door had the same thing.
But then one day her husband came home early.
BATMANI play my guitar for a couple of hours a day
DoughlessI do notice that part of the forum culture...maybe the hobby culture...is a bit of segregation of the model building portion of the hobby from the broader hobby. I think some view the hobby as being about building your own models as often as possible
I build what I have time to build but in the end, I have to pick my battles. Buildings and rolling stock can be built from kits with varying degrees of difficulty or from scratch. Now we have computerization thrown into the mix, this just adds to the workload and learning curve as far as what expertise and the amount of time that is required to enjoy the hobby is.
I spent all weekend and one night a week just at the hockey rink when the kids were on the rise, my daughter was a competitive swimmer and took piano, cello, and clarinet lessons, lots of driving for us. I play my guitar for a couple of hours a day and keep in shape. Yet, I still have enough of a layout I have fun with and that is what counts.
There are people that have opinions on how much of a layout should be scratch-built to qualify you as a true modeler railroader. I will never meet that level as there are too many other interests in life that I like to experience.
AEP528Allen McClelland partly credited the existance of the V&O to the newly available RTR equipment in the 1960's. To badly quote him, he was now able to spend his time building a model railroad instead of railroad models. But RTR must be due to kids these days, right? Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
I do notice that part of the forum culture...maybe the hobby culture...is a bit of segregation of the model building portion of the hobby from the broader hobby.
I think some view the hobby as being about building your own models as often as possible ...and no, I truly don't have anybody specific in mind because I think the idea pops up frequently from many old and new members.
Since I entered the hobby at age 14, I was never interested in building individual models of railroad equipment. Structures, yes. RR stuff, no. I always have thought that "Model Railroading" was about the layout (Pike) and not about the individual models.
Age 14 was about the time the V&O got famous, so that's when I got hooked on the hobby. If the hobby was about craftsman model building, I probably would have never gotten interested.
Its feeds into some differences in how we answer questions and what threads we participate in. The layout construction and building section generally my go to section of this forum, but some things in the General Discussion section can pique my interest.
- Douglas
AEP528Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
I don't know, when I was a kid we had the egg man, the bread man, and the milkman deliver to the house. You won't see me commenting on what people choose to have brought to them.
selectorI especially agree about RTR and the evolution of the hobby. It's a purchase-online-and-return-if-you-don't-like-it world where packages are dropped off at so many doors with a ready-made solution to real and imagined problems. I wonder how the younger folk have the time to build a railroad when they have to unpack all those Uber Eats and Door Dash goodies that save them all that time and expense.
Allen McClelland partly credited the existance of the V&O to the newly available RTR equipment in the 1960's. To badly quote him, he was now able to spend his time building a model railroad instead of railroad models.
But RTR must be due to kids these days, right?
Everything old is new again. Even delivery services.
I joined this forum WA-A-A-Y back, about two weeks after it went live. It was full of people trying to figure out what was okay to talk about or not, and how to share their particular interests in the hobby. They were fun days, and acrimony was not uncommon.
In the years since the forum has matured. Not a lot of contentiousness anymore, in large part because the moderators learned to keep a very tight rein of it.
I've never been part of the "chatty Cathy" crowd; I've visited the diner maybe all of half a dozen times in the last 22 years, and posted there only once or twice. I was never infected with the need to build post count, as many were in the early days.
I tend to stick to the threads related to modeling techniques, layout progress and such. These days reports on vendor issues are of special interest, since almost everyting I need I have to buy online.
Sure, there are a lot of "koffee klatch" posts, but I think that's always been the case. For a whole lot of us, forums are the only place we can find many people who share our interests. Conversations are going to spill out of that.
But there are still the "hard modeling" threads, like hon30critter's snow plow scratchbuild thread, or HO-Velo's Shelf Coupler discussion. Maybe even my own ongoing layout construction thread? And there's a lot more.
The meat is still there, it's just mixed in with a bit more chaff than in the past.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Thank-you both for your thoughtful replies. I am not looking forward to the repair for two reasons: it would mean finally accepting that my swing-up idea and construction is a failure (too unstable and poorly registered, too flimsy at the hinges, etc) and must now be made permanently fixed in place, and my back ain't what it used to be. I will have to bend over the area for a few hours desoldering, sliding knife under the ties and sawing free the tracks, cleaning the roadbed, and then making it all whole and pretty again. I figure three or four days, about two hours a pop.