I need info about adding headlights, window glazing, and directional lighting.
I'm not going to super detail these but want some idea of them working as the somewhat higher-end old stuff. where can I get lighting modules and or how to glaze the windows? I've been out of the model train business for too long and have forgotten more than I ever knew.
Thanks for any info in advance
John
Welcome aboard!
How old is the engine? Is this going to be DC or DCC?
I had a couple of those old geeps from my teenage layout in the 1950s. When I pulled them out of their 35 year hibernation, they didn't run well at all. I tried putting in a DCC motor decoder, but the engine only ran in small, jerky movements. One engine just got tossed, and the other I gutted and turned into a sound dummy.
I found a sale on Proto 1000 geeps in my road. New in the box, they were cheaper than replacing motors and wheels. This was maybe 20 years ago.
Most important, how does the engine run now?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
By the way, as a new member you will be in moderation for a few posts, to make sure you're not an advertising bot or a troll. Keep posting, please, and you'll soon be out of that rut.
Welcome to the forums.
Mr. Beasley's reply is something to consider, especially if your going to convert this to DCC.
First you should do a stall test on the motor, and check the amps. You want to be less than the rating for decoder you plan on putting in.
Most basic DCC decoders are good for 1.5 amps, so your motor should stall test at less than that. I've converted a few BB Athearns, with the stock motor testing at 0.65.
The board you want clips on to the top of motor, and replaces the brass strip that is on the stock motor.
If you want to try it, Athearn offers this:
https://www.athearn.com/product/ho-dcc-adapter-board-locomotive-1/ATH90616.html
What I always do is simply hardwire the decoder into the loco, and add LED lights, and skip the board.
Actuall, I have a few boards laying around, with the DC jumper, if you want to PM me, I would send you one to try, if your sure you want to go that way.
Hardwiring a decoder is very simple, and they come with good instructions to do so.
Just my thoughts,
Mike.
My You Tube
John has another thread that is so far unanswered and relevant to the discussion.
John GrayI need info about adding headlights, window glazing, and directional lighting. I'm not going to super detail these but want some idea of them working as the somewhat higher-end old stuff. where can I get lighting modules and or how to glaze the windows? I've been out of the model train business for too long and have forgotten more than I ever knew. Thanks for any info in advance John
Thanks for any info in advance John
There is a lot we don't know here. John may remember back in the day when there was a DC board for directional lighting in DC engines. We don't know his intentions regarding DCC or sound.
Walthers had a diesel dress up kit for F3's and F7's but I don't remember anything for Geeps.
I agree that the LifeLike Protos were of better detail and running quality than the BB's. However there is a BB tune up tutorial somewhere out on the web, if he wants to persue that.
I think we need more clarity on what John wants.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thanks Henry,
I guess your right, more info.
Going by the unanswered thread, he's looking for DC directional lighting.
I guess we'll wait!
BigDaddy Walthers had a diesel dress up kit for F3's and F7's but I don't remember anything for Geeps.
I actually found a set of side railings for my BB geep on a rack at my old LHS. It was not labeled as anything other than GP9 railings. I just took a chance that I would be able to make them fit, but they fit exactly with no modifications.
On a different topic, the old BB geeps use the locomotive frame as one side of the electrical circuit. Since the coupler pockets on those engines are part of the frame, they are electrically "hot" and you should isolate the couplers or use plastic couplers or replace the original pocket with a plastic one. That's what I did.
[Unable to combine posts from duplicate threads so this is a copy & paste of Hornblower's post from the thread that was deleted...]
Welcome to the forum! As my layout is built for operation with multiple operators of differing skill levels handling my trains, Athearn Blue Box locos are my "go to" choice, especially when I can pick them up used so cheaply at train shows and on-line. As your other thread inquires about rebuilding a Blue Box loco, I thought I'd respond to both threads together.
The first thing I do is completely dissassemble each loco to clean out dirt, crud and dried up grease. I reassemble the trucks and oil the gears with a couple of drops of plastic compatible oil (it doesn't take much). I next solder a couple of 3 to 4" lengths of 28 or 30 gauge flexible stranded wire to the steel electrical contacts on each truck so that the loco does not have to rely on contact with the chassis or the steel contact strips along the top of the original motor.
I like to remotor these locos using the SMC FP280-KN DC 16v 11200 rpm can motor currently available on-line for $3.25 each. Don't let the cheap price fool you! These are strong, torquey motors that will smoothly propel a BB loco all day at prototypical speeds without a hitch, all while drawing significantly less current than the original motor. Note that these motors were originally designed to power automotive side view mirrors. Because such mirrors are often in near proximity to stereo speakers in the car door, these motors come with an interference shield to keep motor noise out of the speakers. If the motor will fit inside your loco with the shield in place, great. However, the actual motor is significantly smaller with the shield removed, especially useful when installing one in a GP9. The shield can easily be removed with a razor saw or hack saw. These motors can easily be attached to the chassis using hot glue, silicone glue, double sided foam tape or whatever you prefer. Just try to mount the motor shaft in line with the gear towers on the trucks. I use lengths of 1/8" styrene tubing to adapt the original Blue Box flywheels to the 2mm shafts of the new can motor. That way, the only part of the original BB driveline that changes is the motor.
I don't know whether your are going to convert your Blue Box loco to DCC. I would highly recommend doing so as DCC allows you to run your trains instead of the track, and most of the features you are looking for are included on even basic non-sound decoders. If I'm not installing sound, I like to use the NCE D13J decoder and one of my DIY keep-alive circuits. This arrangement gives me a smooth and quiet running loco that will crawl along at super slow speeds with no hesitation or stopping on dirty track and all the lighting functions I desire.
To mount the decoder and keep-alive circuit, I first glue or use double sided foam tape to attach a long 1/2" wide strip of .080" styrene to the top of the new motor. The length of this styrene strip should be cut to allow it to fit just inside the headlight lenses on each end of the loco. This will allow you to mount the new headlight LED's to the ends of the styrene strip. The styrene strip also provides a nice surface to attach the decoder, keep-alive and all associated wires and keep everything away from and clear of the drive line. If you want them, the styrene strip also gives you a place to install an engineer and fireman.
If the shell of the Blue Box loco does not already match one of the road names I use on my layout, I will strip it using 91% alcohol and a toothbrush. I next add any details or grabs I want, then repaint the shell into an approriate livery for my layout. Regardless of whether I repaint the shell or buy a loco already painted in a road name I use, I like to weather my locos as, to me at least, they look more realistic and the weathering tends to hide the fact that a loco is not superdetailed. Once the weathering is completed, I then add glazing to the cab windows. I find it is easiest to simply glue pieces of any flat clear plastic into place using pressure sensitive adhesive (PSA) such as that available from Micro-Mark. Trim the clear plastic pieces to fit inside the windows, apply the PSA around the window openings on the inside of the shell, allow the PSA to dry (it becomes very tacky), then press the pieces of clear plastic into place. Unless broken, I also like to retain the original Athearn GP9 headlight lenses. If already broken, I replace the lenses with pieces of optic fiber.
This method results in a loco that was inexpensive to buy and refurbish, is as robust as a brand new Athearn loco, looks good and operates smoothly and quietly enough to please all of my layout operators. Best of all, if one of my operators manages to drive one of these locos off the edge of the layout, I haven't lost a $200 or $300 loco! I hope this helps. Good luck!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Here's the Athearn tune-up & rebuild that I've always used:
http://www.mcor-nmra.org/Publications/Articles/Athearn_TuneUp.php
I can't afford DCC, a 2x4ft layout, Mojave yard, the geeps have Kato motors, and low-speed gears, and they run great. the wiring is ground to trucks and hot to the metal arms .dioads for lighting 1.8mm. and yes I could just buy newer geeps but my wife would have a fit if a 200$ plus engine showed up haha, it's more fun making stuff anyway. sorry for the extra post. I'm new at this forum game.
This is an old picture of an Athearn BB GP9 on the left and a Proto GP9 on the right. It's easy to see the difference in body width between the two. I think that was done to accomodate the wide motor Athearn used at the time. The Athearn model is a dummy now.
I also have a more modern GP9M model from Walthers. It has a modern frame and motor, but is curiously built with the same wide hood as the old Athearn BB units. Again, the BB model is on the left with the Walthers model on the right. This BB model was upgraded with the railings I mentioned earlier.
A GP9M was created by modifying an older GP9, chopping the nose to give it a full frontal cab for visibility. I actually looked up the old engine rosters, found the engine number of the old engine that was converted to the modified model, and gave that number to my old dummy BB, just to tick off anyone who might be that much of a rivet counter.
Missing the motor and gear towers, an old BB model is pretty empty inside, so it makes an excellent start for a sound dummy with lights.
MisterBeasleyI also have a more modern GP9M model from Walthers. It has a modern frame and motor, but is curiously built with the same wide hood as the old Athearn BB units.
That is odd. I wonder why Walthers did that? Maybe they got old tooling and didn't think anyone would notice, or care. hahaha.
the bottom line here is I need to have the lights on going forward and in reverse
directional .my great-grandkids love trains so I'm trying to impress them with model ones and real ones, we go to the loop in Cal and Mojave also the BNSF Barstow to Mojave is a mile from home at Edwards AFB. This is motive enough for me.
My old big layout was burned down by some punks while I was in Reno on hot August nights.
[/quote]
It's tuff to find videos and how-to instructions for directional lighting on blue box locos, that don't include a conversion to DCC.
This kit looks pretty simple, and it includes a set up for 2 locomotives.
Scroll down to read all of this guys ad, and see what it's all about.
If you are savy at soldering, using resisters, etc., you could probably set up your own system.
A common wire would go to each bulb, with the headlight wired to the positive (engineers) side of the loco, and the rear light wired to the negative(frame) side of the loco.
You might also ask this question, how to do directional lighting on a Athearn blue box, over in the Electrical and DCC forum, maybe somebody has a simple way of doing this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202728399502
Hi there. This thread might also be of use:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/214404.aspx
Simon
When I was still running in DC my two go-to units for directional lighting was, #1: Utah Pacific CLU-96 and #2: Miniatronics Corp. CL-013-01. Both units used diodes to control 1.5v bulbs, bulbs included in Miniatronics unit but not in Utah Pacific one.
Dan
mbinsewi; this idea is fine I've done this mod, and it works great. I asked Athern about their adapter board size and got a brush-off. thank you
snjroy;
this was a very good instructional it helped a lot with what I'm doing, one thing IO learned is you can turn one led over to switch track power and it will light in the reverse direction
I'm glad it was useful. Of course, credit goes to the original authors. This forum is a goldmine. Keep us posted.
John Gray I asked Athern about their adapter board size and got a brush-off. thank you
Thanks John.
I think I mentioned this before, maybe in your other thread, I have a few boards I don't need, and I am sure they will fit in the shell.
If you'd like, I can send you a board, if you want to try it.
Send me a PM through here, and we can figure it all out.
Click on my avatar/picture, and it should take you to the page for sending a PM.
Click on Start a conversation next.
Mike
can I use your email address?
when I click start conversation my computer halts any attempt to add my info
Hornblower;
I think you and others about DCC are making an impression on me(hard to do tho)as of tomorrow I'm going to look into this idea further, your ideas about fixing these old BB engines is supper dupper.:).I put Kaoto motors in all of my bb engines in the past, I'll look into the ones you described.
John,
Yes, Not sure if it's visable, but if it is, go for it.
I'll try and send you a PM, and see if goes through from this end.
This PM thing you experienced has been a problem since the "new" forums "reset", along with other problems.
EDIT: Nope, PM doesn't work from this end either. I'll try using FireFox instaed of Chrome.
EDIT: Nope, doesn't work in Fire Fox either.
John GrayHornblower; I think you and others about DCC are making an impression on me(hard to do tho)as of tomorrow I'm going to look into this idea further
The reality is that if you are willing and able to install the previously mentioned DC directional lighting circuits, then you already possess the skills needed to install DCC decoders. Not only will you get the lighting features you desire, the lights will function at full brightness even when the loco is not moving. Even basic four-function DCC decoders also provide additional lighting that allow you to add Mars lights, flashing beacons, marker, number, or ditch lights. In addition to all the lighting features, the DCC decoder will provide you with much better motor control offering several adjustments to allow your locos to operate at their best. These adjustments can also make different locos operate with similar speed curves. These features are handy when you lash up multiple powered locos (no more dummies) in a consist. Best of all, DCC allows you to easily run multiple trains in different directions and speeds on the same section of track without the need for complicated wiring. No more DC track blocks or toggle/rotary switches needed! Trains will not move until you tell them to do so. You can pick up a used basic DCC system on-line fairly cheap. It may help your budget and learning curve to pick up one of these basic systems, learn to use it, then decide what features you really need before purchasing a full-featured system. Visit a LHS, private or club layout in your area and ask them to explain DCC and show you the system they use. Once you experience DCC, the choice to go DCC is a no-brainer!
Hornblower
Money is money and like thinness, most of us don't have enough of either. A Powercab is $200. A no-sound decoder is $25 and and sound decoders are $100.
If the OP thinks DCC is too costly, it's not our job to convince him otherwise.
bigdaddy;
to me and what I'm doing 200$ is a lot of money,to go to VA west LA 100$ one way.
I'm going to go DCC asap,a 2ftx4ft law out I think at this time DCC is over kill.
please show me where I can get this stuff for your pricing I'm willing to take a look at this thing in a different way.
Hello All,
to the forums!
Slightly ...
John Gray...I think at this time DCC is over kill (SIC).
Unfortunately, this is a common misconception. Even the smallest pike can benifit from DCC (DC users add comments here...)
Yes, the initial outlay for an "inexpensive" DCC system can be relatively expensive compared to DC.
To get similar running from a DC system requires multi-cab control (multiple power packs), along with block wiring, and switching. As I've said before, "The amount of money I spend on wire and block switches could have paid for an entry-level DCC system."
If you've not experienced DCC it's a game-changer!
John Gray(M)y great-grandkids love trains so I'm trying to impress them with model ones and real ones...
With DCC the ability to run multiple trains simultaneously is a great draw, especially for the little engineers.
Before committing further to DC, or making the leap to DCC, I would see if you can tryout DCC.
Your description of locations sounds like you are in the High Desert of Southern California- -"Antelope/Palm-Caster" area.
The Pasadena Model Railroad Museum holds periodic open houses. Unfortunately, they just had their March ones.
You might try to contact someone at the club, explain what you are doing, and see if you could arrange a visit.
I live in the mountains of Colorado. The Colorado Model Railroad Museum is 2-1/2 hour drive but the "pilgrimage" is worth it for me. You might find a visit to the PMRRM worth the day-trip.
While in Pasadena don't forget to visit The Original Whistle Stop train shop in Pasadena proper. It's diminutive but world-renowned.
Keep the questions coming, please apprise us of your progress, and as always...
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
my email is listed here or if appropriate maybe I can post it?
I looked into DCC that seems the way to go for this project
I'm told you shouldn't post your email on a public forum, but I think you can put it in your profile. As mentioned, we can no longer message one another.
Modeltrainstuff has the powercab for $195.
An NCE Nonsound decoder is $26.36, less if you buy a four pack. This particular board was designed to replace the circuit board used by Atlas and Life Like. I think it would work with a BB, but our friends will tell us if I am wrong.
An ESU Lok-Pilot (non-sound) is $30. I'm not a fan of digitrax.
DCC stores I would recommend are Yankee Dabbler, Litchfield Station, Streamlined Backshop. Tony's Trains is on hold, pending better reviews.
Should you decide to go sound, you need to tell them that in the case of your GEEP you need them to load the EMD 567 engine sound, at least you do for ESU
John Graymy email is listed here or if appropriate maybe I can post it? I looked into DCC that seems the way to go for this project
My email is listed too, but neither of our emails can be seen by anybody but us. You, in your profile info, and me, in my profile.
If your going to go to DCC, the boards I have also have the DC jumper. You can remove the jumper plug, and plug in a decoder, although it would be the older 9 pin type, which will work fine.
I guess it's up to you, just how you want to go with DCC. For the blue box locos, I always hardwired the decoder in, it's not hard.
Are you on any other social media? like Face Book, Twitter or Instagram?
Are you on any other forums, like Atlas rescue forum, Model Railroad Hobbyist (MRH), which are the two I use other than here.
Do you an Ebay account?
Just trying to think of other ways we can connect, as it's just rediculous that the PM feature in here doesn't work.