I have a new dremel and want to use it for cutting flex track (plus many other uses). I have read the concerns over shattering discs and would like the safest ones to buy. Any suggestions?
DISCUSSION UPDATE: covered all the topics in title
a narrower disk is going to more prone to shattering than a wider disk ..
I have the Dremel quick lock wheels. They are thicker than other Asian brands but last longer. Like any grinding disc, proper care is needed. Discard the disc if cracked or the tool falls. Don't take any chances. Exploding discs can be deadly.
Most of my track cutting is done with a pair of rail nippers. More consistent cuts and no dust and projectiles. The Xuron rail nippers are well worth the price.
Pete.
You're correct being concerned Rick. Safety First is always a good idea. I am one of the composite disk victims.
Vinyl siding a cabin about 6 years ago I had one of those stone disks bind and explode on my 4 inch grinder. It shattered the bone almost taking my index finger off and broke my middle finger as well.
The clinic 15 minutes away wouldn't even deal with me. They taped it up, gave me a prescription for Vicodin next door and sent me to Alexandria that was about an hour and 40 minutes away.
Those two fingers have never worked the same and I always know where my arthritis is.
I will no longer use the stone disks. You can usually tell by the fiberglass webbing on either side. Even a brand new one, if it catches or binds can explode and flies all over the place from those High RPM's.
I'm sure the little Dremel wheels don't do as much damage when it happens but who wants to find out what they will do.
An industrial diamond metal wheel disk is what you want. They're the safest and do a good job. Maybe not as quick as the composite ones but I can live with that.
TF
do not force the wheel, in other words let the wheel do the work. If you force it the disk will expolde you do not want that.
CGW103do not force the wheel, in other words let the wheel do the work. If you force it the disk will expolde you do not want that.
And wear eye protection!!!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I too prefer the rail nippers. The Dremel tends to cut the rails at a bit of an angle if you aren't careful. Using an extension drive on the Dremel helps some but you still have to be mindful of keeping the disc straight.
Old school........use two (2) disc's together, not one. This has been mentioned many times over the yrs.
Take Care!
Frank
One of the problems with using a Dremel is that you cannot hold the wheel perpendicular to the track while cutting. (At least, I haven't figured out how) So, you cut the rail at an angle and have a hard time avoiding side pressure on the disk. Yes, Xuron rail nippers are expensive, but worth it.
I have a pair of Xuron rail nippers and they have become a new preferred method for cutting rails as well. They didnt have those when I left off model railroading in the late 70's. I found it interesting the directions say to cut N scale rails by the width and HO scale rails by the height or vice-versa as I don't remember.
I do remember using a jig to stabilize the rails and a fine toothed razor saw to cut the rails back in the day. May have took a bit longer but it worked good, especially where bridge tracks came into play.
The industrial diamond cut off disks were not purchased to cut track while laying it. It's just that I don't like those insulated rail joiners even though they're making them clear now instead of orange. I'm sure my naked eye is not good enough to notice them. But the last thing I want to see taking a track-side photo (with everything else looking realistic) is this 40 inch long hunk of clear plastic that don't belong in the picture.
Doing the old school blocks, It's my thoughts to use the diamond disks to cut the block seperations after the tracks laid so they're unnoticeable. Then filling the joints with a flexible product and trimming the excess with a razor blade.
Some research was done for that product and have some around here somewhere. Unlike silicone that repels paint, this stuff is paintable for the rust colored rails.
Thank you for the informative replies! I think I will spring for a Xuron rail cutter and rotary tool cutoff disks. There are times that I imagine it's easier to pick up the Xuron tool and make a quick cut versus dig out the dremel, make attachments, etc... I do have the flex shaft attachment and will use it for cutting flex track. Appreciate the comments on safety and the recommendations for cutting disks.
Speaking of eye protection, I have very basic safety glasses. Will this one work or should I go for higher quality? Suggest what you think is best!
Thanks again!
IDRick Will this one work or should I go for higher quality?
bummer Ja Bear, very unlucky bounce off the forehead... Fortunately, you can still see, good on man!
The safety glasses are supposed to be fog resistant but we'll see! Hope so! Had old saftey goggles from chemistry lab back in the day, horrible for fogging up and definitely not impact resistant.
Hey TF, what product are you using to isolate your blocks? Sounds interesting, flexible and accepts paint! I had heard of cutting rail, inserting styrene and filing excess to achieve isolation. Would your flexible product be even easier to use than styrene?
zstripe Old school........use two (2) disc's together, not one. This has been mentioned many times over the yrs. Take Care! Frank
LOL, I'm definitely old enough to qualify as old school, I'll give it a try! Doubling up makes sense!
Rick
Rick.
If you go with doubling up the stone unreinforced wheels then I strongly suggest safety glasses and full face shield. Reinforced wheels still shatter too. It's hard to contain something coming apart at 10,000 rpm. Leather gloves also.
Had a young mechanic in our shop cutting a bolt under a truck one morning. Using an air cutoff tool and 4 inch fiberglass reinforced disc. The shattered disc took out his juggler and throat. He died on the way to the hospital which was three miles away. I use mine as a last resort.
IDRick Hey TF, what product are you using to isolate your blocks? Sounds interesting, flexible and accepts paint!
Hey TF, what product are you using to isolate your blocks? Sounds interesting, flexible and accepts paint!
wrench567 Rick. If you go with doubling up the stone unreinforced wheels then I strongly suggest safety glasses and full face shield. Reinforced wheels still shatter too. It's hard to contain something coming apart at 10,000 rpm. Leather gloves also. Had a young mechanic in our shop cutting a bolt under a truck one morning. Using an air cutoff tool and 4 inch fiberglass reinforced disc. The shattered disc took out his juggler and throat. He died on the way to the hospital which was three miles away. I use mine as a last resort. Pete.
Thanks for posting TF! Very interesting products, appear to be very useful for the task at hand! Post some pictures when you use it, definitely a product to consider and use!
RR_Mel had good luck with Xuron cutters but suggested Harbor Freight flush cutters work as well at a much lower cost. They need to be replaced more frequently. He linked this one in Aug 2021.
PC101, I was thinking someone would recommend a razor saw. Nice to see a recommendation! Which one do you use? MR recommended these razor saws in a 2014 article: K & S (295 razor saw), Mascot (102 razor saw), 295 razor saw, Xacto (239 fine razor saw + 75330 miter box. and Zona (35550 razor saw, 42 TPI). I like razor saws for preparing new track before initial installation. Not as handy if making cuts on fastened track (IMO, I could be wrong, please correct if I am mistaken as I do not have first hand experience).
IDRick RR_Mel had good luck with Xuron cutters but suggested Harbor Freight flush cutters work as well at a much lower cost. They need to be replaced more frequently. He linked this one in Aug 2021. PC101, I was thinking someone would recommend a razor saw. Nice to see a recommendation! Which one do you use? MR recommended these razor saws in a 2014 article: K & S (295 razor saw), Mascot (102 razor saw), 295 razor saw, Xacto (239 fine razor saw + 75330 miter box. and Zona (35550 razor saw, 42 TPI). I like razor saws for preparing new track before initial installation. Not as handy if making cuts on fastened track (IMO, I could be wrong, please correct if I am mistaken as I do not have first hand experience).
Since you are the OP I'll put this in here on Razor saws.
I need to resize pictures then go to my picture host and and I'll be right back.
I'm back, now I need to add the words.
1st. picture is my homemade track cutting jig for unlaid track.
It was built when I used 'push cut blades'.
2nd. picture shows Xacto 'push cut' fine tooth blades with the blue and red paint markings and Excel 'pull cut' #30409 and #30440 fine tooth blades.
The lower blade in the picture with no handle stub is whats left of a normal blade. The shorten/customized blade with the handle stub (not shown, I can not find it at this moment) is used to cut laided track that has something (building, parallel track, land form) to close to the rails to be cut with a full length blade.
Yes, for me wire nuts work just fine for handles.
3rd picture shows what I use to cut laided track for (blocks, gaps, adding sidings or crossovers). I 'super glue' the rails to the ties then cut both rails on a tie, (making sure there is that plastic piece under one rail that connects the ties) but do not cut through the tie. After the rails are cut I fill in the cut with plastic and CA glue. Then dress up the rail and plastic filler.
If you want to eliminate the risk of having the cutting discs shatter, I recommend diamond grit steel blades as an alternative. I bought a set like these several years ago and I have only worn one blade out to date. The set comes with a variety of blade sizes. If you were to use the largest diameter blade to cut track, it would eliminate the problem with the smaller discs cutting the rail at an angle:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/384292945011?hash=item5979a4fc73:g:w-UAAOSwbWdg-~jN&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8Pv9y1XHOp%2FvZZYPDW3S%2Fk7t0TA4L11avm7XZSqizl52Tgc7eaBJ3muVBFupXeU9PtXhbf8TBeuqeVQKIXTXK2f71YncAaYOiJC1F4kkswwAQivuU9ISjOvgd7pQ2PjTHCuUk4ig6wtmdeiwTEWrJsU6%2BmnSqfBgBfG2ivjd4XqRzXqJ8JRI3%2B1tvXAPExiN9WINhc4gPK6C3nsgkpIb%2F1FiQGW7kCPsaF%2BAsrIQHsO6yl5rYZBOhXZ2NARdbr51rLIG9YCSTLzbYoTBO%2FoAb9DY2HT2kA4pop2aSLQH7iUUG%2FWqYLAuewSChI3Is4A0SA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBM3NO1-I1h
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Good morning
IDRick PC101, I was thinking someone would recommend a razor saw. Nice to see a recommendation!
PC101, I was thinking someone would recommend a razor saw. Nice to see a recommendation!
Track fiddler I do remember using a jig to stabilize the rails and a fine toothed razor saw to cut the rails back in the day. May have took a bit longer but it worked good, especially where bridge tracks came into play.
Yes TF you get the razor saw credit. I just added pictures.
NOW WHAT DID OUR HOSTS DO? Something just changed with the 'Add Quote to your Post' and the page is set up different. I can not post a Quote. Even though it ask to "Add Quote to your Post" and you click on it and nothing happens.
I can not Quote your post about my track cutting jig but here is a better picture of it. It was made when I used 'push cut' blades (I'm not sure when 'pull cut' blades came about but I just bought the two Excel 'pull cut' ones at the TCA show in October). Anyway it has a fence to hold the track straight as I cut with a 'push cut' blade and a front brace to hold the jig up against benchwork or a table or whatever. Now it may look like I will need to redesign the jig for the 'pull cut' blades. Man this Hobby is never ending.
PC101
CGW103 do not force the wheel, in other words let the wheel do the work. If you force it the disk will expolde you do not want that.
Or if you are not holding the rail being cut securely with your left hand/fingers or a block of wood there is a chance if the tool is in your right hand the rotating wheel will rip the rail right out of those little plastic 'spikes' and send it right towards your chest/neck/face.
Humm, now 'Add a quote to your Post' works and the page looks just like it did earlier.
I build turnouts using the fast tracks tools and jigs, and that involves cutting a good bit of rail. For cutting bare rail to length I use the zuron rail cutters. I have two pairs, one is a knock off, and the knock off does a fine job.
It will also be ok for cutting flex track, it will be able to cut through the tie webbing without problems.
Building a turnout also requires you to cut electrical gaps around the frog in a finished turnout. The nippers are no good for that, nor would they be any good for cutting gaps in already-laid flex track. People often use a dremel for that, but I don't.
Having gone to all the effort to build a great looking turnout, I want the gaps I have to cut for electrical reasons to be as small and invisible as possible. So I use a zona jewelers saw. It would also be fine for cutting gaps in already-laid flex track as long as the scenery isn't higher than the track.
I have the best results with the jewelers saw when I put the blade in the saw so that it cuts on the pull stroke, YMMV.
Here's a link to the zona saws. The $19 3" depth one should be fine, though mine is a 5" one because I didn't know I had a cheaper option.
https://www.zonatool.net/cat/jewelers-saw-jeweler-saws/
A jewelers saw will let you cut down through the rail without cutting the plastic tie web, if you desire. It would take a very careful touch with a dremel to do that. It only takes about 15 seconds to cut through a rail with the zona saw.
The kerf will be about half of what you can achieve with a dremel, and much less likely too be accidentally at an odd angle.
The blades do break, you still need eye protection, but so far they've only broken on me into two pieces, and I've only ever had one end go flying, so one projectile. The saws are designed to adjust to shorter blades, when one breaks you just use the longer half until that breaks.
I will probably get one of the razor saws at some point too.
IDRick zstripe Old school........use two (2) disc's together, not one. This has been mentioned many times over the yrs. Take Care! Frank LOL, I'm definitely old enough to qualify as old school, I'll give it a try! Doubling up makes sense! Rick
FDR was in His first term when I was born.
They also must have some real poor excuses for cut-off disc's today for dremels and die grinders because in all the years of My using them, I never experienced what people all calling shattering in this thread. I've rebuilt full size trucks/autos/classics and started in HO in 1950 so I believe I have the qualifications but I don't consider Myself an expert like everyone and their brother does now a days.lol
One of My classic's:
1949 Ford restored by Me, including drive train.