I am toying with the idea of painting and decaling a bunch of Walthers Mainline Painted and Unlettered Passenger Cars into a particular roadname.
Would I have to strip the current paint job or could I paint over it? I am looking for advice on painting and decaling these passenger cars.
Thanks in advance.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi Rich,
Good but broad question.
What paint scheme will you be applying to your cars? Are your mainline cars completely silver with just a road name? Or are mutliple colors involved? A car that is completely silver, with just road names can be repainted with a solid color without having to use primer once the lettering is removed. However if, for example, you have an Amtrak car, and apply a light color over the shell, the red and blue colors will "bleed through" (be visible).
My preference is to completely paint strip passenger cars. To me, it's simply part of the "creativity feature" of this hobby. If you'd like to take this route then a solution that has worked well for me on the Mainline Cars is the purple "Super Clean" that you can find at Walmart and a variety of businesses. Immerse your shell, allow to soak several hours, then scrub the paint off with a toothbrush. Works nicely! BTW: 91% Iso Alcohol (my usual go to solution) doesn't work as well on Walthers newer products.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Well the simple answer is yes. There are some things to consider however. Generally todays cars have very good thin layers of paint that is probably water based and not solvent based. This means it hasn't built up excessively around details. generally it is best to remove it. There are several stripping materials which I will leave to others to discuss as I haven't done any stripping in many years. Are the cars glossy or dull? If glossy you will want to roughen the surface to provide tooth for the paint to adhere to. A brown paper towel is adquate to do that. Lastly are you considering brush paintng, rattle spray can or airbrushing the paint. I listed them from worst to first for quality of finish. If this is all new and a first time for you practice on a car or two that are junk. you can always strip and redo painting but practice will increase your odds of success the first time
AntonioFP45 Hi Rich, Good but broad question. What paint scheme will you be applying to your cars? Are your mainline cars completely silver with just a road name? Or are mutliple colors involved? A car that is completely silver, with just road names can be repainted with a solid color without having to use primer once the lettering is removed. However if, for example, you have an Amtrak car, and apply a light color over the shell, the red and blue colors will "bleed through" (be visible). My preference is to completely paint strip passenger cars. To me, it's simply part of the "creativity feature" of this hobby. If you'd like to take this route then a solution that has worked well for me on the Mainline Cars is the purple "Super Clean" that you can find at Walmart and a variety of businesses. Immerse your shell, allow to soak several hours, then scrub the paint off with a toothbrush. Works nicely! BTW: 91% Iso Alcohol (my usual go to solution) doesn't work as well on Walthers newer products.
So, your recommendation is to completely strip the paint, not just repaint over the factory paint. Would you prime before painting?
Yes a light gray primer is a good idea .
ndbprr Well the simple answer is yes. There are some things to consider however. Generally todays cars have very good thin layers of paint that is probably water based and not solvent based. This means it hasn't built up excessively around details. generally it is best to remove it. There are several stripping materials which I will leave to others to discuss as I haven't done any stripping in many years. Are the cars glossy or dull? If glossy you will want to roughen the surface to provide tooth for the paint to adhere to. A brown paper towel is adquate to do that. Lastly are you considering brush paintng, rattle spray can or airbrushing the paint. I listed them from worst to first for quality of finish. If this is all new and a first time for you practice on a car or two that are junk. you can always strip and redo painting but practice will increase your odds of success the first time
I have never owned an airbrush, and I have zero experience airbrushing. So my plan would be to use the rattle spray can approach where I do have some experience. I would like to avoid brush painting. Is there such a thing as a high quality rattle can spray? In the past, I have had a few issues with paint splattering or running, so I clearly need to avoid that.
philo426 Yes a light gray primer is a good idea .
What about masking the areas to be painted, and how do you mask areas that have already been painted without damaging the finish? What is the best practice for masking material?
My plan is to paint the roof of each car with a dark color, and the window area a color in the orange to red spectrum. The rest of the car body would be somewhere in the gray to silver range.
That is just my preference.I take the extra step because metalizers tend to make a surface stand out. BTW: After paint stripping a car, if the surface bare surface is gray and looks as clean and even as in the photo I posted above, imho there is no need for primer. Paint can be applied directly on to it. But if the surface is black, then I would apply a primer as black will affect a light color's appearance.
But as option to keep things simple. If the car shells are completely silver and the surfaces are smooth, you can paint directly on to the silver surface. The silver would act as your foundation. The silver that Walthers uses is not bright, so it's basically a neutral toned color that can be utilized as a primer under most dark and medium colors.
Wash the shell in warm water and non-moisturizing soap (original Dawn or Ivory Liquid work well).
Follow up with wiping the surface with a lint free cotton or paper towel dampened lightly with a window cleaner or 70% iso-alcohol. Check for any lint and you're ready to fire up the airbrush (or rattle can).
What will your road name and color scheme be?
Rich, I just read your last post.
Use a good quality masking tape (Tamiya or 3M 233+ series tape)
The roofs would be a cake walk since they are removable. Mask off the one-piece window (glazing sides) and paint the roofs separately.
If you are satisfied with the silver body, simply mask off the lower sides, the section above the window row, and the ends.
Run long strips of masking tape on the insde walls to prevent overspray. Make sure the tape is not touching the sides of the window openings so your paint will coat them.
Clean the window section and apply your paint. I usually prefer to seal the paint with 1 to 2 thin coats of a quality clear.
BTW: Not being pushy, but I respectfully suggest that you consider giving airbrushing a try. I was VERY intimidated by the thought of airbrushing. Once I tried it.......I went "ga-ga!". I was amazed that with just a little practice on scrap, how much easier and more relaxing it was than using rattle cans. Nor more (clacka-clacka-clacka) shaking cans every 5 seconds.
If I can ever be of help if you decide to give it a go, message me any time.
AntonioFP45 Hi Rich, That is just my preference.I take the extra step because metalizers tend to make a surface stand out. BTW: After paint stripping a car, if the surface bare surface is gray and looks as clean and even as in the photo I posted above, imho there is no need for primer. Paint can be applied directly on to it. But if the surface is black, then I would apply a primer as black will affect a light color's appearance. But as option to keep things simple. If the car shells are completely silver and the surfaces are smooth, you can paint directly on to the silver surface. The silver would act as your foundation. The silver that Walthers uses is not bright, so it's basically a neutral toned color that can be utilized as a primer under most dark and medium colors. Wash the shell in warm water and non-moisturizing soap (original Dawn or Ivory Liquid work well). Follow up with wiping the surface with a lint free cotton or paper towel dampened lightly with a window cleaner or 70% iso-alcohol. Check for any lint and you're ready to fire up the airbrush (or rattle can). What will your road name and color scheme be
What will your road name and color scheme be
My plan is to replicate the Monon paint scheme. I currently own a set of IHC heavyweight Monon cars, but I have always wanted a set of streamlined coaches. Rapidio produced a set of 5 coaches back in 2013, but I balked at the $85 price per car, much to my continuing regret. Now, they are nowhere to be found.
Monon always maintained an eclectic fleet of passenger cars including the use of WWII troop cars. Rapido made no attempt to match the prototype, choosing instead to borrow heavily from their Super Continental Line to produce a CC&F lightweight coach. So, I am going to use what is available - - the Walthers Mainline Small Windows coach.
In terms of color scheme, available photos show anywhere from shades of orange to red for the Monon passenger cars. I will have to decide what to do there.
AntonioFP45 Rich, I just read your last post. Use a good quality masking tape (Tamiya or 3M 233+ series tape) The roofs would be a cake walk since they are removable. Mask off the one-piece window (glazing sides) and paint the roofs separately. If you are satisfied with the silver body, simply mask the off the lower sides, the section above the window row, and the ends. Run long strips of masking tape on the insde walls to prevent overspray. Make sure the tape is not touching the sides of the window openings so your paint will coat them. Clean the window section and apply your paint. I usually prefer to seal the paint with 1 to 2 thin coats of a quality clear.
If you are satisfied with the silver body, simply mask the off the lower sides, the section above the window row, and the ends.
Rich,
In case it is helpful, here is a thread i posted when I purchased a Mainline Budd some years back. On it I comment on how I removed the roof.
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/249188/3028855.aspx
AntonioFP45BTW: Not being pushy, but I respectfully suggest that you consider giving airbrushing a try. I was VERY intimidated by the thought of airbrushing. Once I tried it.......I went "ga-ga!". I was amazed that with just a little practice on scrap, how much easier and more relaxing it was than using rattle cans. Nor more (clacka-clacka-clacka) shaking cans every 5 seconds.
I heartily agree...once I performed the suggested procedures that were included with my dual-action Paasche airbrush, I gave-up wasting time and money on rattle-can paints.
With an airbrush, you can create pretty-well any colour you choose, and it will give you much better control of the amount of paint used and of the places where a rattle can would be overkill or inaccessable.On multi-coloured items, you can apply one colour, then cap the bottle for later use, and move onto to the next colour...nothing wasted and any left-over paint is available when you need it.
Wayne
AntonioFP45 BTW: Not being pushy, but I respectfully suggest that you consider giving airbrushing a try. I was VERY intimidated by the thought of airbrushing. Once I tried it.......I went "ga-ga!". I was amazed that with just a little practice on scrap, how much easier and more relaxing it was than using rattle cans. Nor more (clacka-clacka-clacka) shaking cans every 5 seconds. If I can ever be of help if you decide to give it a go, message me any time.
doctorwayne AntonioFP45 BTW: Not being pushy, but I respectfully suggest that you consider giving airbrushing a try. I was VERY intimidated by the thought of airbrushing. Once I tried it.......I went "ga-ga!". I was amazed that with just a little practice on scrap, how much easier and more relaxing it was than using rattle cans. Nor more (clacka-clacka-clacka) shaking cans every 5 seconds. I heartily agree...once I performed the suggested procedures that were included with my dual-action Paasche airbrush, I gave-up wasting time and money on rattle-can paints. With an airbrush, you can create pretty-well any colour you choose, and it will give you much better control of the amount of paint used and of the places where a rattle can would be overkill or inaccessable. On multi-coloured items, you can apply one colour, then cap the bottle for later use, and move onto to the next colour...nothing wasted and any left-over paint is available when you need it. Wayne
AntonioFP45 BTW: Not being pushy, but I respectfully suggest that you consider giving airbrushing a try. I was VERY intimidated by the thought of airbrushing. Once I tried it.......I went "ga-ga!". I was amazed that with just a little practice on scrap, how much easier and more relaxing it was than using rattle cans. Nor more (clacka-clacka-clacka) shaking cans every 5 seconds.
With an airbrush, you can create pretty-well any colour you choose, and it will give you much better control of the amount of paint used and of the places where a rattle can would be overkill or inaccessable.
On multi-coloured items, you can apply one colour, then cap the bottle for later use, and move onto to the next colour...nothing wasted and any left-over paint is available when you need it.
Just kidding...about the threatening emails.
OK, I think that I am willing to purchase an airbrush. But, first, I want to research the issue a bit. I read about, and worry about, things like compressors, paint booths, cleaning the airbrush after each use, stuff like that. But, like I told another member in a personal email exchange, I just learned how to use a framing nail gun, something that I thought that I would never do, so why not try an airbrush?
So, fellow model railroaders, tell me about your preferred airbrush, along with any comments about how best to use it.
I just read an article on basic airbrushing by Cody Grivno. I am going to re-read it a couple of times, and then I will be back with some questions.
https://www.trains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/basics_of_airbrushing.pdf
Just to be a contrarian, I would say if the cars are unlettered, and are a solid color, you really don't need to strip the paint. Acrylic paint covers so well, and goes on so thin, you really can just paint over it. BTW if the seats and window glazing can easily be removed, you might consider painting the inside of the car too. Light green is a good 'go to' color as that was very common for interiors of railroad passenger cars, engine cabs, cabooses, and buildings (like roundhouses).
I've found that, unless I need a specific color that can only be achieved by using an airbrush, it works out very well to use Tamiya spray can paint. Unlike hardware store spray paint cans that are designed to spray like outdoor metal patio furniture, Tamiya paints are designed for models and the spray is very fine and even. In your situation, you probably could use Tamiya white or gray primer spray can paint, then perhaps airbrush the colors you need...although Tamiya makes a variety of colors, you might find they have colors that are the same (or very close) to what you need for your Monon cars.
Why, Stix, you nasty little contrarian, you.
I am definitely leaning toward the airbrush approach at this point. Same for stripping the paint. I really want reduce my chances of failure as much as I reasonably can.
I don't repaint a lot of models, but I agree wit Stix that if you have clean, uniformly painted undecorated models, just painting over them should be fine. It's a smooth, even undercoat which should not show any bleed-through of any previous pattern. On the other hand, if you decide to strip the older paint, then it's on you to do a perfect stripping job or risk seeing any errors through your finished coat.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley I don't repaint a lot of models, but I agree wit Stix that if you have clean, uniformly painted undecorated models, just painting over them should be fine. It's a smooth, even undercoat which should not show any bleed-through of any previous pattern. On the other hand, if you decide to strip the older paint, then it's on you to do a perfect stripping job or risk seeing any errors through your finished coat.
I have been doing some research today on the whole issue as well as re-reading all of the posts on this thread and some personal emails that I have received. Here is a summary of my questions and conclusions at this point:
1. Airbrush vs. Rattle Can. I started out thinking that the rattle can was the way to go for me. But, the responses have convinced me that an airbrush is the way to go.
2. Airbrush Selection. There are lots of choices in terms of not only brands but also different types of airbrushes from these manufacturers. Badger, Paasch and Iwata seem to be the most popular brands.
3. Types of Airbrush. There are two types of airbrush: single action and double action. I am leaning toward the single-action as easier to use for a novice like me and less expensive.
4. Compressor vs. Propellant Can. I actually own a Badger Propellant Can that my LHS guys persuaded me to buy nearly 20 years ago. As I recall, they also sold me an airbrush, but for the life of me I have no idea where it might be, whether I sold it years ago on eBay, or never really bought one. I never used the Badger Propellant Can of spray, and I wonder if it even would still work as intended. I read a blog today where a guy who sprays model racing cars swears by it. I am not anxious to sink a lot of money into a compressor, but some seem reasonably priced.
5. Moisture Trap. Some airbrushes come with a moisture trap, and the literature says that you can make your own. Do I need such a device for this purpose?
6. Spray Booth. Do I really need one, and if so, how elaborate? One buddy who emailed me said to just use a cardboard box in a well ventilated area.
7. Handle. A good piece of advice is to get some type of "handle" to hold a rotate the item to be sprayed. One recommendation is the handle offered by GB Engineering. Another recommendation is just to build one out of wood.
8. Stripping. I am getting mixed suggestions here. To strip or not to strip? The only suggestion so far, and it sounds good to me, is Super Clean as a stripper.
9. Type of Paint. I need some help here. A guy whom I greatly respect says Scalecoat, look no further.
10. Thinner. It seems that this is necessary to be added to the paint.
11. Masking Tape. The suggestions so far are Tamiya or 3M 233+ series tape.
Any and all comments, suggestions, recommendations, criticisms will be welcomed.
richhotrain So, fellow model railroaders, tell me about your preferred airbrush, along with any comments about how best to use it. Rich
I had absolutely no idea of why I would want an airbrush, or even know how to use one, but at the time it was suggested, I was painting Athearn Blue Box Geeps for a now-long-gone hobbyshop.The issue with them was that the two-colour paint scheme required painting both colours, in-sequence, twice.By the time I had finished building (the diesels had to be modified to represent the prototype) and painting 66 TH&B diesels (geeps & switchers), I was talked into buying (at a reduced price) my first airbrush.
It came with a manual, and some very useful advise on how to get comfortable using something which I had never used (the manual didn't phrase it in that manner), but the results did make me a lot more comfortable using it and it didn't take long to become proficient using it.
The first lesson was to use a pencil, on paper or cardboard (I opted for a cardboard box) to draw a grid of half-inch squares, then hold the airbrush 1/2" from the cardboard to create dots where the drawn lines intersected, using either india ink or diluted water-colour paints. The point was to make each dot as small as possible.
Once you are able to place the dots accurately, you can try creating larger dots by allowing more colour to flow through the airbrush and at the same time, increasing the distance between the airbrush and the cardboard. I did well on the first part, but after only a couple of tries, I skipped making the bigger dots because it was too easy.I actually skipped much of the practice lessons, but the exercise which interested me most was to create the smallest dots possible, then connect them as neatly and as straight as possible.
Without using a pencilled grid, I made a grid of tiny dots, then connected them all with lines so straight and so thin that a viewer would think them to have been done using a straight edge and a pen.I doubt that nowadays I could repeat that feat...but I wish now that I had saved that piece of cardboard.
Anyway, that's about all of the exercises that I bothered with, as I was eager to get going with painting train stuff with an airbrush.
My airbrush is a dual-action Paasche, and if you choose that one, you will likely also get the booklet with the 22 airbrush lessons for beginners, which includes a small airbrushed black & white pin-up picture, by Alberto Vargas.
His skills would make me look like a dunce, but mine are good enough for the things that I'm intertested in painting.
I can't offer much in the way of choices for a compressor...I started with a very old one-lunger with a refrigerator motor providing the oomph.
When my father passed-away many years ago, I inheirited his homemade screw-type compressor, also powered by a refrigerator motor. Because the air is compressed by the interaction of two oil-encased screws, meshing together, there is no pulsation in the delivery of air to the airbrush (and surprisingly, no oil ever enters the airhose).
Here's a photo of the old compressor...
...and the one I'm using nowadays...
Wayne, an interesting tale you tell. Thanks for sharing. I have never given any thought to airbrushing techniques, but the dots approach is very intriguing.
Here is my latest thinking on the repaint situation.
I have all but decided to buy an airbrush. I am considering the Badger 250, a single action, external mix, bottom feed airbrush.
If I do buy an airbrush, I think that the way to go is with a compressor rather than rattle cans of paint. I am considering the Badger Model 18-10 or 18-12 based upon reviews and price.
I cannot decide what to do about a spray booth. My inclination is to forego one, at least initially, in favor of a cardboard box in a well ventilated area such as my garage.
To strip or not to strip? I cannot decide. Good arguments have been made for both ways. I need more input.
I am getting favorable recommendations on paint, and I am inclined to go with Scalecoat II based upon those recommendations.
I am looking for the best masking tape and the proper techniques in applying it. Antonio mentions Tamiya or 3M 233+ series tape. Any others?
I still cannot decide whether to prime before applying the actual paint coat.
So, that is where I am at as we speak.
AntonioFP45 The roofs would be a cake walk since they are removable. Mask off the one-piece window (glazing sides) and paint the roofs separately.
richhotrainI still cannot decide whether to prime before applying the actual paint coat.
OK well at least that one is easy. Yes, you should always put down a primer coat first...and always wash what you're going to paint before primering it. Just warm water and a little 'soft soap', then rinse completely. Wait until fully dry before painting.
Prime, even if I don't strip the original factory paint?
AntonioFP45 Rich, In case it is helpful, here is a thread i posted when I purchased a Mainline Budd some years back. On it I comment on how I removed the roof. https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/249188/3028855.aspx
No, not really, but we shall soon see.