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New Haven Paint Color

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, July 25, 2022 9:43 PM

I assumed boxcar red was also to hide rust, but I see that it seemed to be also in use in the wooden car era.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Monday, July 25, 2022 5:43 PM

"Boxcar" red is pretty much the same color as used on barns. And adopted for the same reason, it was cheap. Just add iron oxide to linseed oil and slap it on. How much iron oxide to how much linseed oil - how much do you have of each

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, July 25, 2022 3:04 PM

B Rutherford

Central Vermont Railroad

Speaking of which...

...I have no idea if this is the "correct" paint for this modified Train Miniature boxcar.  I used one of the Pollyscale boxcar colours, very similar to what was used by the CV's parent company, the CNR.

...and by Grand Trunk Western, too...

...another CNR subsidiary.

To my eyes, at least, it looks "good enough".

Wayne

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Posted by wrench567 on Monday, July 25, 2022 2:24 PM

BEAUSABRE
Next, what color was PRR's Dark Green Locomotive Enamel....

 It sure was not Brunswick green. Like they say, one gallon black with one drop green.;) Add dirt to desired grime.

 Pete.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 25, 2022 1:27 PM

BEAUSABRE

Yes.                                                                                                                                                                                                              As I have stated in other posts, railroads bought paint from different suppliers which had subtle differences in formulation despite being nominally the same, dirt, paint fading from the sun and weather, season and time of day the picture was taken, the type of film used and how it has faded over the years, all affect how we all perceive color. Best advice, pick a color in a photo that seems best to you, try matching it on pieces of scrap with paint from manufaturers or your own home brewed mix, and compare under your layout lighting (which is not the same as sunlight, despite lighting manufaturers claims - Even when manufacturers use Historical Society provided drift cards and paint chips they get complaints from modelers that "it doesn't look right" because of this) and pick what you like the best. Then paint (or repaint) everything you own that uses that color for consistency and weather to taste. For whay it is worth, the color was officially Socony Red                                                                                                                                                                                Next, what color was PRR's Dark Green Locomotive Enamel....

 

Thanks very much. That information is most appreciated.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Monday, July 25, 2022 9:37 AM

Yes.                                                                                                                                                                                                              As I have stated in other posts, railroads bought paint from different suppliers which had subtle differences in formulation despite being nominally the same, dirt, paint fading from the sun and weather, the season and time of day the picture was taken, the type of film used and how it has faded over the years, all affect how we perceive color. Best advice, pick a color in a photo that seems best to you, try matching it on pieces of scrap with paint from manufacturers or your own home brewed mix, and compare under your layout lighting (which is not the same as sunlight, despite lighting manufaturers claims - Even when manufacturers use Historical Society provided drift cards and paint chips they get complaints from modelers that "it doesn't look right" because of this) and pick what you like the best. Then paint (or repaint) everything you own that uses that color for consistency and weather to taste. For what it is worth, the color was officially Socony Red                                                                                                                                                                                Next, what color was PRR's Dark Green Locomotive Enamel....

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 25, 2022 7:17 AM

Speaking of New Haven paint colors, were New Haven passenger cars red or orange in the window area? As I look at photos of actual NH passenger cars, I have seen variations of both colors.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Saturday, July 23, 2022 12:14 PM

Here's what I posted to an earlier question along the same line                                                                                                                                                    "Pat McGuinness,who instiuted the "New Look" took over as president of the NH in 1954, so cars with the paint schemes you are asking about probably would be rare or non-existant in October 1954. Here's something I dug up

"40' PS-1 boxcars (Micro-Trains and Atlas models) never were repainted in the black New Image scheme (with red-orange door) or the red-orange New Image scheme.  Some were repainted in the boxcar red Alpert block herald scheme in the early 1960s.  The 40' AAR boxcars (InterMountain's 1937 and Pacemaker models) were repainted in the two New Image schemes as they were sold, refurbished and leased back to the railroad beginning in 1955.  The black scheme and the red-orange scheme were used simultaneously.  But plenty of boxcars retained their script herald scheme, particularly the 40' PS-1s.  The 50' PS-1s were delivered in New Image schemes — all red-orange for the double door version (Athearn model), and red-orange with black doors and sills for the plug door version (Athearn and Micro-Trains models).  All of the 40' DF PS-1s kept the script herald scheme well into the PC era.  The bulk of the State of Maine XIH boxcars (ESM model) were repainted into the boxcar red Alpert block herald scheme in the early/mid 1960s, although a handful retained the SoM scheme well into the PC era.  There was no New Image scheme that was all-black on any of the boxcar classes."

Prior to the "New Look" (thank Mr Dior foor the term) boxcars were delivered in boxcar red with the script herald

https://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?Itemid=259&Categoryid=20

Post 1951 repaints were in oxide red  (also known as oxide brown) with the block herald

https://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?Itemid=1103&Categoryid=20

BTW, the "New Look" red color is actually "Socony Red" and is available from various manufacturers

Here's a model example of "Oxide Red" or "Oxide Brown"

https://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/Pdg/Detail/42369/HO-Rolling-Stock-Crown-Custom-Imports-CCI-263P-New-Haven-BOX-CAR

 "AAR 1937" was a design standardized by the Aoociation of American Railroads in 1937

"PS-1" was a proprietary design introduced post-WW2 by Pullman Standard - they were cheaper than customized designs as PS could essentially mass produce them. "You tell us what to paint it, we'll do the rest"

 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Saturday, July 23, 2022 12:06 PM

I heard the story that an old PRR shop foreman would create DGLE by adding so many handfuls of green pigment to the black base. Maybe the Standard Railroad of the World wasn't so standardized after all....

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Posted by wrench567 on Saturday, July 23, 2022 11:49 AM

   Hi Bill.

 A little more than a decade ago the PRR Technical and Historical society formed a paint committee. They immediately found out it's nearly impossible to come up with a definitive formula for model paints. There is way too many variables even with newly painted equipment. As paints evolved over the past 150 years, formulas for color have somewhat stabilized but shading is near impossible to standardize on. The best advice is to paint it to what looks good to you. The prototype had variations in shades from one shop to the next and even the day of the week in the same shop. The most controversial color for my prototype is the Dark green locomotive enamel. There never really was a definite formula. Some say one part Hunter green to four parts black. While I have also heard one cup green to five gallons black. None of my locomotive fleet is the same exact shade of DGLE. Most are too green in my eyes. Some look black unless it's put in bright light.

  Color and shades is the most controversial part of the hobby. I don't know when the NH started painting the orange and black scheme. It was a huge change over long brown strings of cars going bye.

   Good luck.

       Pete.

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Posted by B Rutherford on Saturday, July 23, 2022 10:13 AM

Thank you both!   I will definitely be adding dirt and weathering.  I have a "dirt mixture" that I apply in various amounts with an airbrush on cars.

This is my first car from a kit so lots to learn...

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by dti406 on Saturday, July 23, 2022 5:04 AM

Almost all CNJ boxcars had a definite brown tint so I used a 50-50 mixture of Scalecoat II Boxcar Red and Roof Brown.

Since I don't like Acrylics I can't help you there.

 

Rick Jesionowski 

 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, July 23, 2022 1:50 AM

B Rutherford
Would love others thoughts on color matching or a formula for the brownish red in Tamiya paints.


I've used Tamiya paints on some cars, but I'm still using Pollyscale, as it remains my all-time favourite.

When you add the lettering to your New Haven car, both the built date, and the re-weigh data will contribute to how you wish to determine when the car was last (or first) painted.
Paint not only faded, but it also collected dirt....some might wash off in the rain, too.
In many instances, especially in wet weather, cars in a train would accumulate dirt thrown-up by the wheels of the cars to which they were coupled...

 (Click on the photos for an enlarged image)

Obviously, none of the cars shown above are lettered for the New Haven, but my aim was to illustrate, that there are many ways to show if a car is new or old, well-cared-for, or not. 

Wayne

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New Haven Paint Color
Posted by B Rutherford on Friday, July 22, 2022 7:38 PM

Still working on the F&C boxcar which is a 1942 New Haven car.  Wondering about paint color, it is the typical brownish red boxcar color. Part of me wants to ask for the best place to get a picture of a paint chip for an exact match. The other part says with dirt, weathering and fading exact color doesn't matter that much. 

I am using Tamiya paints through an airbrush. 

Would love others thoughts on color matching or a formula for the brownish red in Tamiya paints.

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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