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How do you install Kadees on an Varney dockside?

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  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Monday, July 25, 2022 5:07 PM

Hello everyone! I just finished installing kadees on the dockside. I super glued the rivit back on to the coupler plate since coupler boxes would not fit. I have tested it and it works fine. 


  " alt="" />Thanks for all the help.

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  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Thursday, June 30, 2022 5:56 PM

Hello, Thanks for the help. It wouldn't matter if the nut is embedded or the screw is counter sunk since that does not matter to me. Unfourtunately the coupler boxes do not fit even with the sanding as shown in the Kadee diagram. I don't think it would work well for a screw to be in direct contact with the coupler. The only thing I've thought of in putting a little bit of glue on the rivet to hold the coupler plate in. 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 952 posts
Posted by PC101 on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 9:59 PM

I do not have a Varney Dockside, at least I do not think so, but your first picture looks like the "stud" goes down though the frame (that black ring in the green frame) and is flared over the coupler bottom cover. How about this, can that "stud" be pushed out from the bottom up though the frame? Then a 2-56 screw/bolt can go up though the bottom and into a 2-56 nut ''embedded'' in the frame. then cover the nut with some sort of putty to hide it. Or a counter sunk tapered head screw down though the top of the frame, though the coupler and box and a "shaved" nut on the bottom of the cover. Just a shot in the dark by looking at the pictures.   

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 9:12 PM

Hello Everyone! I don't think a screw would work since a rivet acts like a stud for the couplers. I can't think of another way to do this?

Thanks for the help.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
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Posted by jjdamnit on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 2:13 PM

Hello All,

Alber Einstein is credited with saying,  "Once you open a can of worms, the only way to get all the worms back in is to use a bigger can."

Unfortunately, with many "simple" projects it becomes the proverbial can of worms.

CA (Super Glue) doesn't sound like the quick answer for this project.

Kadee has a set of drills and a tap for 2-56 screws (#246).

You will also need a tap handle; available at hardware and home improvement stores.

As I previously suggested Kadee 30-series couplers would fit in the space you are working with, with little to no modification other than drill and tap a 2-56 hole.

Because the frame is metal I would also suggest using the Kadee #256 Nylon screws to attach the 30-series couplers. This will provide additional electrical insulation.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Monday, June 27, 2022 5:47 PM

Hello Y'all! Thank you for helping me on this project so far. I went to my "local" train store and got some coupler boxes for the project. However the coupler boxes are too big and even with filing they did not fit. I cut off the sides of the box and super glued the box in. Unfortunetly the coupler would not turn because of the super glue. I pulled out the coupler and wrecked the centering spring. 

Now the only way I think would work would be using the rivet and plate that's original and super glueing the rivet back in place.

That's all for today.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,385 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, May 6, 2022 9:02 AM

You need a T&E convervion kit.

The kit is not all that expensive in the grand scheme of things, but it can be labor intensive.

 

 

 

* T&E = Trial and Error...

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,663 posts
Posted by zstripe on Thursday, May 5, 2022 12:44 AM

Click on link to site and then click on PDF for 0-4-0 Dockside conversion with No.5 couplers.

http://www.kadee.com/hocc_varney

Take Care!

Frank

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
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Posted by jjdamnit on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 6:06 PM

Hello All,

doctorwayne
I dug through some of my older Kadee couplers, and found a #36, but it has a fairly long shank.

As with all Kadee couplers, they come in many different configurations; short, medium, and long shanks.

Coupler heads come in under, center, and overset variations. 

The 30-series denotes all the couplers with a semi-circular gearbox and a circular torsion centering spring.

On the Kadee webpage they list nine (9) variations with the 30-series type gearbox and centering spring.

The OPs challenge will be to try and estimate what Kadee coupler will serve their needs best out of all the shank/head/gearbox configurations.

A Kadee #206 coupler height gauge would help in the initial assessment.

From the gauge you can estimate the distance; height and depth in the frame, to the nearest mounting point.

Determining this distance, high or low, gives the OP some guidance in choosing the coupler configuration that will best match their unusual and unique conversion.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 5:14 PM

Hello, I drilled out the rivet since filing did not work. I looked at the kadee coupler conversion chart and kadee has a diagram on how to install the coupler.

Link to Diagram:   https://www.kadee.com/media/documents/v311.pdf  

Here are the parts I think I need.

2-56 drill and tap set

#240 pin vise

#256 nylon screw

#1700 nuts (2-56)

#232 coupler box

Do the screws need to be #256 or can they be a metal screw? I would prefer the screw to be metal.

Thanks everyone for your help.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,024 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 8:36 PM

jjdamnit
Kadee 30 series might fit your situation better.

I dug through some of my older Kadee couplers, and found a #36, but it has a fairly long shank.
Another option would be a Kadee #8, with a 5/16" long shank, from the back of the knuckle head to the centre of the pivot post.
The coupler is metal, the draught gear box plastic, and can be screw-mounted.

To do the mounting, you'll need a #50 drill bit to drill for the screw, and a matching tap to create thread in the drilled holes.  I'd use flathead 2-56 brass screws, as a few hand-held twists with a #18 drill bit will create a suitable countersink for most of the screwhead. If you're not that fussy, you could use round-headed screws and skip the need for a countersink.

Any excess length of the screw which protrudes above the deck of the pilot can be sawed-off using a razor saw or cut-off disk in a motor tool.

Wayne

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
  • 3,118 posts
Posted by dstarr on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 6:52 PM

Kadee publishes a what-fits-what list showing what coupler fits what rolling stock.  The rolling stock list goes back to the beginning of time, at least the beginning of HO time.  It is worth using the Kadee recommended coupler, it will save you a lot of filing and hacking and cussing.  The Varney dockside (in fact probably all Varney steamers) are hot chassis, motor juice flows thru the chassis.  This means you want insulating couplers to prevent short circuits when double heading.  Insulating means either couplers made of plastic, or metal couplers installed in plastic coupler boxes and secured with plastic screws.  Kadee makes a line of all plastic couplers, which are plenty strong enough for any kind of HO railroading.  You also want to check your installed couplers against a coupler gage to make sure the couplers come out at the right height. 

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 1,973 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, May 2, 2022 10:57 AM

Hello All,

Welcome to the forums!!! 

Your first few posts will be moderated so there will be a delay from when you submit them to when they appear on these forums.

Congratulations on your find!!!

From the photos you posted it appears that there are plates that hold the couplers in place.

I would begin by cutting off the existing Hook & Horn coupler- -since you are replacing it anyway- -to give you better working room.

With a jewelers file, try filing down the shoulders of the rivets flush with the plates holding the couplers in place.

Then carefully pry off the gearbox (coupler pocket) plates.

If you file the shoulder of the rivet flush with the gearbox plate and it still doesn't budge- -by hand- -use a drill bit the same size as the hole, and carefully remove the last part of the rivet.

By the looks of the coupler pockets you might not be able to use a Kadee #5.

Kadee 30 series might fit your situation better.

After removing the rivet you will need to drill and tap the frame for a 2-56 screw. Kadee has a kit to do this.

Then I would use their #256 nylon screw, cut to length, to mount the new coupler assembly.

If you want to use a #5 or whisker-type coupler, I would definitely use a gearbox to insulate the metal frame from the metal coupler- -which could cause electrical problems.

You will need to remove material from the existing coupler pocket.

That's why I recommend the 30 series couplers, which won't require opening up the coupler pocket.

Use a #206 Kadee coupler height gauge to make sure that the new couplers are at the proper height.

Keep us updated on your progress and...

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • 7 posts
How do you install Kadees on an Varney dockside?
Posted by bmtrainmaster on Saturday, April 30, 2022 1:18 PM

Hello, At a recent train show I got an HO Varney dockside. It has horn hooks but the front horn hook is broken. I want to install kaddee #5 couplers.

On both sides the couplers are installed with rivets. I am not sure how to install kadee couplers since it's riveted.

Front Coupler

Back Coupler

Does anyone know how to install kadees on this dockside? Thank you.

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