richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich How do you join all those wires together? Sheldon
richhotrain Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering. Rich
Sheldon, it was a way lot easier than you are imagining it to be. And total connectivity is assured by dropping feeders from every piece of track. A whole lot easier and faster than soldering.
Rich
How do you join all those wires together?
Sheldon
I don't. I connect each feeder to the bus which essentially follows the track underneath the layout.
Ok, but how do you attach your drops to the buss?
I don't have any use for a buss, I have blocks. Remember, signals require blocks, DC or DCC.
Alton Junction
snjroy DCC requires constant 14V power (minimum). I've read that this is better achieved with a bus and multiple feeders because track does not carry power as well as wires. I also solder most of my track, with some space for expansion. Simon
DCC requires constant 14V power (minimum). I've read that this is better achieved with a bus and multiple feeders because track does not carry power as well as wires. I also solder most of my track, with some space for expansion.
Simon
I have read all that too. But as described above, my real world experiance with 4-5 layouts belonging to friends says otherwise.
My DC layouts have used full voltage pulse width modulated speed control at 13.8 volts for years with single feeders to blocks as long as 60' with no issues.
richhotrain I am on my 5th DCC-powered layout. The current one is a 42' x 25' double mainline layout with two yards and two large passenger stations. Lots of turnouts. I learned the hard way on my early layouts with loose rail joiners, insufficient feeders, etc. On my current layout, there are no stalls due to power loss because every piece of track, including turnouts, have feeders soldered to the outside of every rail. Rich
I am on my 5th DCC-powered layout. The current one is a 42' x 25' double mainline layout with two yards and two large passenger stations. Lots of turnouts. I learned the hard way on my early layouts with loose rail joiners, insufficient feeders, etc. On my current layout, there are no stalls due to power loss because every piece of track, including turnouts, have feeders soldered to the outside of every rail.
OK, I get that. But that is a lot of work, much easier, and just as reliable, to solder the rail joints.
And for those worried about expansion and contraction, ok, every so often solder a jumper around the rail joint.
For me, all that wiring would be problematic. The feed to each mailine block must run thru the coil of an inductive detector. So multiple drops within a given block would have to be wired after the detector. This becomes a logistical nightmare under the layout.
I look at all this buss wiring people do and think "that is just as much wire as my DC control system - just hooked up differently".
When I was a child, and my father set up the 5' x 18' Christmas layout every year, he actually soldered all the rail joints and all the wiring, just for that two month display.
Then he unsoldered the track for disassembly - it was TruScale wood roadbed track.
Each loop of track, roughly 40', simply had one feeder. Except for some sidings that were wired to be shut off to store/stage trains.
Yes, we had a 90 sq ft model train layout in the living room about 15% of the year, until I was 10. Then it got put up in the basement and stayed up year round. In a few years I was given full creative control/ownership.
So I would much rather solder rail joiners than have all that wire to deal with.
Just to be clear, feel free to over build, I do it in other areas of this hobby.
One of the things I like about Atlas turnouts is the simple built in feed thru wiring which I have never had any issues with.
I found it interesting that the new PECO was designed to provide that feature as well.
After years of building my own turnouts and dealing with the issues of power routing turnouts I was happy when the Atlas code 83 line came out and provided suitable appearance and function without the issues (extra gaps, etc) of power routing.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich Why? I want every piece of track powered. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich Why?
richhotrain I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout. Rich
I would add feeders to all three ends of every turnout.
Why?
I want every piece of track powered.
In 56 years at this hobby, I have never had all these issues with track/power that others either seem to have or are afraid are going to happen.
I have had friends with typical DC layouts with multiple blocks who converted to DCC. Each block might be typically 12' to 20' long. All they did to convert to DCC was tie all those feeders together and hook them to the command station. Worked fine.
Some of them left their DC control panels in place, set all the blocks to one throttle, and hooked the command station to that throttle input where a power pack had been. Worked fine.
No buss wire, no drops every 6', none of that.
In the beginning we were told "DCC only takes two wires" - When you tell an electrician something only takes two wires, he reads that as 4 connections - PERIOD.
DISCLAIMER - most of these DC old timers had all the rail joints in each block soldered.
And a few did put some of those "circuit breakers" on each old block or joined the blocks into several groups and installed separate boosters/circuit breakers.
On one layout I designed for a friend and helped build with DCC, the owner installed drops every 6', including on two large helix lifts from the staging to the visable mainline. The taller helix alone was 150' of track. He never finished hooking them all up, I never once remember having a problem on his layout.
Do whatever makes you comfortable, but it all seems like overkill to me.
I know it is DC, but my new layout has block lengths from 20' to 60' - there will only be one feeder to each block. It will work fine.
Thanks, Sheldon.
First of all, you don't need any insulated rail joiners with Atlas turnouts unless you are going to have separate power districts.
If you do want separate power districts, make each loop a district and the only insulated joints will be in the middle of each crossover.
In either case, on a layout that small If you just run a one feeder to each loop, or maybe two or three to each loop for overkill, you will be fine.
If you layout is in a stable environment, I would solder all the rail joints except possibly those the turnouts.
Those concentric curves at those radiuses may be problematic for looger equipment passing each other. I have found you need to get up 36" radius or above before concentric curves at 2" centers work for all equipment.
There is no need to connect feeders directly to the turnouts except for the frog power connection.
Finally getting back to building the #56 Dayton and Northern. Will be powered DCC. All switches are Atlas code 100 Customline Mark V numbers #393 and #394. There are 3 loops of 28 inches, 30 inches, and 32 inches. Each loop will be a separate power district. ( Please refer to above mentioned plan.) There are 4 places where I will have crossovers. Questions are: 1. Will all 6 rail ends on each switch need the plastic insulated rail joiners? 2. Where do I attach feeders from buss wires to switch rails?
LastspikemikeMy Mantua 2-6-6-2 is the only locomotive I have which will stall across the Atlas curved turnout. I imagine it wouldn't make it over a #8 either. Those are large frogs. Mine has left driver pickup on one driver set and right driver pickup on the other set. Not ideal and not current practice where all drivers and all tender wheels commonly pick up power.
@Mike, that's interesting and explains a lot. I haven't wired my curved frogs yet. If you have wired yours, does your 2-6-6-2 do better on them?
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Mark,
About Bachmann and the Spectrum/Standard Line thing. The Consolidation did not change at all, the box just got simpler.
The 10 wheeler did loose some of the separately applied detail, but the drive is the same.
Other new additions to the regular line are actually very similar in detail level with those older Spectrum models, the 2-8-2, 2-8-4, 4-6-2, 2-6-0 are all very nice with nice drives and even some proto specific details. More than you can say about the expensive 2-8-2, 2-8-0 and 4-6-2 from Broadway which are all generic with the same details.
I have lots of more recent Bachmann, last 20 years, but not many of their diesels, mostly Spectrum steam. Fewer problems as a percentage then I have had with Broadway, better service, and a selection of prototypes more in line with my interests.
I'm buying a Whirlpool frig, which I have always had good luck with, just bought a GE range, also always a good experiance over the years. And I have bought lots of appliances being a landlord for 26 years...
Was once a Checker and Chevy guy, but for the last 26 years the FORDS have been great as well.
Take care,
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well OK Mark, you might want to consider not buying any appliance from the Whirlpool Corp because that's who owns Amana now. It is just a brand name, slapped on a long list of products made in the same factories with the same parts as a long list of other brands now owned by Whirlpool. I don't know how long ago your bad experiance was, but the original company is long gone......
Right now I am replacing a Samsung frig that came with the house. It is junk, I won't be buying a Samsung to replace it. But my next TV is likely to say Samsung based on decades of good service from several of their TV's.
And I am still amazed at all these stories of problems with Atlas turnouts after my lifetime of good results.
Another product line I hesitate about is Bachmann. I had a few of their locos from the days of the pancake motors, and as you might guess was very underwhelmed. They did a big turnaround, though. Some years ago I bought a brand new DCC-equipped Bachmann-branded diesel (GP9?) at a train show for about $30, just out of curiosity. When I got it home I was absolutely floored with how well it ran. This was Bachmann?!? To this day, though, when I see something from Bachmann my initial reaction is "Ugh!," though they probably don't deserve that anymore. I really liked their Spectrum line. I wish they hadn't rolled so many of their locos back into their "standard" line.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
1arfarf3 The layout is #56 Dayton & Northern in the 101 Track Plans. Thinking of using Peco code 100. I will power frog due to short engines. Where 2 switches form a cross over, where are insulated joiners used? Each mainline will be on separate power districts.
The layout is #56 Dayton & Northern in the 101 Track Plans. Thinking of using Peco code 100. I will power frog due to short engines.
Where 2 switches form a cross over, where are insulated joiners used? Each mainline will be on separate power districts.
If you plan on building a published plan, you should check to see which turnouts it was designed with. I don't know if 101 Trackplans specifies brand (which would have been from the 1950s or 60s), but there are some slight differences in how each brand of turnout might fit exactly into a published plan.
PECO code 100 has a curved diverging route, designed to mimic a true curve. Most turnouts that folks have been arguing about have straight diverging routes, designed for a train to sort of glide off of tangent instead of turn.
Building a crossover with two turnouts that have curved diverging routes makes an undesireable S curve in the crossover, both curved routes being placed back to back.
I would avoid using PECO code 100 unless the published plan specifically calls for it because it might change the angles of the diverging tracks coming off of straight.
All of the other turnouts mentioned here are pretty much interchangeable when designing plans, with maybe little nips and tucks here and there that should not be a problem.
- Douglas
Pruitt ATLANTIC CENTRAL But it is a completely different product now, has been for over 25 years, that was 50 years ago. Do you hold that kind of bias against other products? Autos? Appliances? Lawn Mowers? You should take a $20 gamble and look close at a code 83 Custom Line turnout. If you don't like it, I will buy it from you and pay the postage. Sheldon Maybe it is different, but from what I've seen at the club, it's still a problematic product line. In some cases I do hold onto a bias against product lines. I will never buy an Apple computer because they simply stopped supporting one my late wife bought, about three months after she paid their premium price for it. She'd always been an Apple fan; after that she switched to PCs. I'll never buy another Amana appliance because I bought a washer and refrigerator that were both junk. I owned a brand new BMW Z3 some years ago. it's the ONLY car I ever had to have towed into a service department - twice. It was covered under warranty, but I'll never own another one. As far as turnouts go in general - I build my own using Fast Tracks jigs, with excellent results. I like Peco turnouts, and Walthers were pretty good, too, but I don't buy any anymore, because the jig-built ones outperform any commercial turnouts I've ever owned. Plus they're less than half the cost of even the cheapest. richhotrain Truth be told, Atlas flex track is the best choice, hands down. The worst flex track is Peco, hands down. Rich On the other hand, Peco code 70 flextrack is the best I've ever owned. I like ME rail, but hate their hard-to-form flextrack.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But it is a completely different product now, has been for over 25 years, that was 50 years ago. Do you hold that kind of bias against other products? Autos? Appliances? Lawn Mowers? You should take a $20 gamble and look close at a code 83 Custom Line turnout. If you don't like it, I will buy it from you and pay the postage. Sheldon
Do you hold that kind of bias against other products? Autos? Appliances? Lawn Mowers?
You should take a $20 gamble and look close at a code 83 Custom Line turnout. If you don't like it, I will buy it from you and pay the postage.
Maybe it is different, but from what I've seen at the club, it's still a problematic product line.
In some cases I do hold onto a bias against product lines. I will never buy an Apple computer because they simply stopped supporting one my late wife bought, about three months after she paid their premium price for it. She'd always been an Apple fan; after that she switched to PCs. I'll never buy another Amana appliance because I bought a washer and refrigerator that were both junk. I owned a brand new BMW Z3 some years ago. it's the ONLY car I ever had to have towed into a service department - twice. It was covered under warranty, but I'll never own another one.
As far as turnouts go in general - I build my own using Fast Tracks jigs, with excellent results. I like Peco turnouts, and Walthers were pretty good, too, but I don't buy any anymore, because the jig-built ones outperform any commercial turnouts I've ever owned. Plus they're less than half the cost of even the cheapest.
richhotrain Truth be told, Atlas flex track is the best choice, hands down. The worst flex track is Peco, hands down. Rich
On the other hand, Peco code 70 flextrack is the best I've ever owned. I like ME rail, but hate their hard-to-form flextrack.
Well OK Mark, you might want to consider not buying any appliance from the Whirlpool Corp because that's who owns Amana now. It is just a brand name, slapped on a long list of products made in the same factories with the same parts as a long list of other brands now owned by Whirlpool. I don't know how long ago your bad experiance was, but the original company is long gone......
I can build turnouts myself, without a bunch of expensive jigs, but I like the electrical features of the Atlas product, and I want to spend my time in other ways. I'm starting a layout that requires 120 turnouts, I will build the special ones.
BMW Z3- haha, I was once a shop foreman in a BMW dealership. One of my best friends is a retired BMW mechanic. Bring Money Withyou - engineered for peformance, not for reliability. But I buy practical cars, not toys. If I wanted a car as a toy it would be something like a 1958 Impala with a 348 tripower, or a lightly hot rodded 1969 Checker Marathon.
I prefer cars you get into rather than cars you "put on". But my 2015 FORD FLEX Eccoboost that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds is practical and fun.
Apple - I simply don't like how they do business, so I never bought anything for my own use.....
And for the record, PECO makes great roducts, but the features of their turnouts do not fit my needs. I'm not paying more to then have to modifiy them for my needs.
LOL, Mark you are being quite the contrarian this early morning.
I will partially agree with you though. When we built our new home, now 22 years ago, we paid a premium upgrade charge for a MoenStone kitchen sink. For many years, Moen had a lifetime unlimited warranty on its sinks. However on the MoenStone sink, it was a 15 year limited warranty.
After 15 years, 3 months, the sink failed, developing a large crack stretching out from the drain. Despite repeated pleas, Moen would do nothing, and the MoenStone product was no longer available as a replacement. My wife will never buy another Moen product.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut it is a completely different product now, has been for over 25 years, that was 50 years ago. Do you hold that kind of bias against other products? Autos? Appliances? Lawn Mowers? You should take a $20 gamble and look close at a code 83 Custom Line turnout. If you don't like it, I will buy it from you and pay the postage. Sheldon
richhotrainTruth be told, Atlas flex track is the best choice, hands down. The worst flex track is Peco, hands down. Rich
Truth be told, Atlas flex track is the best choice, hands down. The worst flex track is Peco, hands down.
During The Great Atlas Flex Track shortage a few years back, I was forced to buy Peco flex track for a project. I quickly replaced it as soon as Atlas flex track became available once again.
SeeYou190I cannot recall anyone else... ever... not having success with Atlas flex track.
Besides the "flex" feature, I'm glad to have sections of track in one meter or one yard lengths. Compared to 9" sections of Snap-Track that's a lot of rail joiners saved. All my yards and staging tracks are "flex" track yet there isn't much of a curve anywhere to be seen.
Regards, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRALHe complained about the flex track, he thinks it should stay bent to allow his "unique" approach to laying track,
Yep, that is why I said "products" and not just "turnouts".
I cannot recall anyone else... ever... not having success with Atlas flex track. It is absolutely the easiest product on Earth to make layouts from. Maybe some products are better detailed, but easier to use? HA!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Spike is on a crusade against Atlas turnouts. Spike is on all kinds of crusades, but for the life of me, I don't get his severe hatred of Atlas products. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Spike is on a crusade against Atlas turnouts.
Spike is on all kinds of crusades, but for the life of me, I don't get his severe hatred of Atlas products.
I think I know why Spike does not like Atlas. He complained about the flex track, he thinks it should stay bent to allow his "unique" approach to laying track, expecting to fit it all together before attaching the track to the roadbed/table top. And I would bet his unique track laying method has found Atlas turnouts to be too "fragile" for that method as well.
Pruitt SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Spike is on a crusade against Atlas turnouts. -Kevin I'm not at all a fan of Atlas turnouts either. Track, yes, but turnouts, certainly not. Probably a bias I developed way back when I first started model railroading in the early 1970's. For the life of me I could not get Atlas turnouts to work properly. Trains usually derailed on them. Probably my fault, but I didn't have that problem with other brands. So I have never used any Atlas turnouts since then.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Spike is on a crusade against Atlas turnouts. -Kevin
I'm not at all a fan of Atlas turnouts either. Track, yes, but turnouts, certainly not.
Probably a bias I developed way back when I first started model railroading in the early 1970's. For the life of me I could not get Atlas turnouts to work properly. Trains usually derailed on them. Probably my fault, but I didn't have that problem with other brands. So I have never used any Atlas turnouts since then.
But it is a completely different product now, has been for over 25 years, that was 50 years ago.