richhotrain Maybe you think you wrote what you didn't write.
I think the problem has been identified, and that is it in a nutshell.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Lastspikemike If you want to respond constructively to any post of mine please read what I write, not what you think I wrote.
If you want to respond constructively to any post of mine please read what I write, not what you think I wrote.
Rich
Alton Junction
It wasn't "so obvious". In addition to the factors already mentioend, there was the fuel - coal was readily available all along the N&W. Not too many oil wells and refineries. It's one of the reasons they and the C&O went in for experimental stuff like the coal fired turbines like Jawn Henry. When labor costs were low, it wasn;t such a big deal that it took 5 days to fix a steam loco (using 20 workers and on hand material to fabricate whatever was needed) compared to say 2 days and 5 workers using parts bought from the diesel locomotive manufacturer (either stocked at cost or else wait for delivery on order). Not to mention retraining EVERYONE - including the master machinists. Everything a journeyman or apprentice had learned about steam locos - useless on a diesel. Years of training and learning - down the tubes, literally. And a proper service facility? There was an article in Classic Trains I think it was, about the 'standard' service facility GM designed for railroads. Which was effective for nothing but F units. Forget non-EMD locos. Forget switchers, those shoips were tailored to fit F units and service them. Most railroads, especially the early adopters, hedged their bets and bought from 3 or 4 different builders. Both to diversify and to get enough units - even with the costs, diesels were selling like hotcakes and an order to EMD for say 20 ABBA sets might not be delivered for a couple of years. But if you got some EMDs, and some Alco FAs, you could get the total number of units needed in a shorter timeframe.
The accounts at N&W didn't miss anything, they calculated with the same care as anyone, and found that early adoption of the diesel would have cost them more then any operational savings. When certain inpouts to the equation changed, they recalculated and then it went in favor of the diesel.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And there have always been modelers interested in the historical aspect of trains before their time on this earth.
And there have always been modelers interested in the historical aspect of trains before their time on this earth.
Right on Sheldon. Although I dont have much access to documented info on prototypes, I try my very best to recreate a time I never got to experience.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad.
4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500
2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300
Steam more expensive? not on my railroad.
Good thing you dont like DCC or sound cause then diesels would cost significantly more...
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Good looking locos, Sheldon.
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad. What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad.
Example:
What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines?
Nothing because it is a hobby, and my hobby is building model trains and model train layouts, not collecting expensive models build by others.
I did it because it is fun.
Here is picture of one, before it went to the paint shop.
These are based on the idea that LIMA could have built a larger version of the DT&I 800 class Mikado that was very similar to the NKP 2-8-4. I did considerable research into the plausablity of these locos. Considering the size and weight of the GN O-8 and NYC H-10, LIMA could have built a Mike with 69" drivers and nearly as big as the Berksires. so in my little world they did.
I took Bachmann 2-8-4's, replaced the trailing truck with a brass booster Delta from PSC (formerly a Kemtron piece for you old timers like me), made a better drawbar system, and added lots of weight.
I used NKP, PM and C&O versions from Bachmann which have different dome locations and other details, and two of the five I built have long vanderbilt tenders creating three sub classes of locomotives for my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
And while we are here, here are shots of a BLI Heavy 2-8-2 reworked with a Bachmann long tender and a Delta trailing truck, also before it went to the paint shop. I did two of these, after I got them to run right.......
The Delta trailing truck is an Athearn part, from their less than successful 4-6-2. But they were happy to sell me some parts......
Sheldon
An "expensive model collector"
Alyth Yard--
Your post certainly did not come across as a joke, but more of the somewhat misinformed kind of post that, unfortunately, occurs all too often on train forums.
Go read some good publications on diesel history, like Diesel Era, instead of Morning Sun Books brief photo captions. Diesel Era's writers discuss the steam versus diesel transition very candidly and factually, what diesels worked out well and which ones did not, and why.
Another ill-informed comment was about the accountants:
It was definitely NOT obvious to the accountants on NKP or N&W at the time. The tipping point was about 1955 to 1956. That was when, with dramatically increasing labor costs, the math began to justify the switch from steam to diesel for Nickel Plate Road and N&W. At that time the thinking of "diesels are ok for yard switchers" changed to "well, we will actually save money if we replace the mainline steam".
Laugh all you want; those of us who love history and don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past aren't necessarily laughing with you.
As much as I like Alco diesels, the story of Alco's management and engineering is one of collossal failure. Since I work in engineering for a living, we try not to make the same mistakes they did. Alco is an engineering school project management case study in what NOT to do.
John
Lastspikemike I suspect newer hobbyists with an interest in steam locomotives may not be very concerned about historical accuracy. If you are under 60 it is likely your real life memories of any steam power will be out of place and not true to prototype, not to mention quite vague at this point. The fact that any model steam power is being made new is remarkable enough. The other fact of note is that Diesel power is much cheaper than steam power which is true to prototype.
I suspect newer hobbyists with an interest in steam locomotives may not be very concerned about historical accuracy.
If you are under 60 it is likely your real life memories of any steam power will be out of place and not true to prototype, not to mention quite vague at this point.
The fact that any model steam power is being made new is remarkable enough.
The other fact of note is that Diesel power is much cheaper than steam power which is true to prototype.
This makes a lot of assumptions about people that are not facts in evidence.
I have been at this for 50 years, and worked in the retail side of this hobby for over a decade.
My observation is that people like, buy, collect, build, and run model trains for a long list of complex and varied reasons, and most generalizations about those reasons are false.
There have always been modelers interested in what they see, or have seen in their life times. And there have always been modelers interested in the historical aspect of trains before their time on this earth.
That was true in 1971 when I started working in a hobby shop, it is true now.
A recent survey thread on this forum about what era people model, left present day at the bottom of the list. I know, it is not based on any sound data.
Personally, I have very little interest in the trains of my youth, or the train I see today.
The newest prototype model locomotive I own is an EMD SD9 built in 1954, three years before I was even born.
On my layout I run long trains, so the average freight train is powered by 3-4 diesels, or 1-2 stream locos, depending on the size of the steamers.
So in terms of model locomotives costs, my average diesel train has just as much or more money at the head end as most of my steam trains.
Lastspikemike PRR8259 Incorrect. Both NKP and N&W reported that a four unit set of diesels was very expensive, actually more than twice the cost of a new Y-6B. It was only AFTER the labor costs increased dramatically during the 1950's that both roads chose to dieselize. Hirsimaki reports that labor cost doubled on the NKP between 1950 and 1958. That is why the last steam holdouts switched. In 1950 they still thought steam would continue indefinitely. Also it is fascinating that they later merged two of the last US holdouts together yet didn't make a play for Illinois Central. John Of course. Thats why it's so easy and cheap to rebuild and recertify a steam locomotive these days compared to doing the same thing for a Diesel.
PRR8259 Incorrect. Both NKP and N&W reported that a four unit set of diesels was very expensive, actually more than twice the cost of a new Y-6B. It was only AFTER the labor costs increased dramatically during the 1950's that both roads chose to dieselize. Hirsimaki reports that labor cost doubled on the NKP between 1950 and 1958. That is why the last steam holdouts switched. In 1950 they still thought steam would continue indefinitely. Also it is fascinating that they later merged two of the last US holdouts together yet didn't make a play for Illinois Central. John
Incorrect. Both NKP and N&W reported that a four unit set of diesels was very expensive, actually more than twice the cost of a new Y-6B. It was only AFTER the labor costs increased dramatically during the 1950's that both roads chose to dieselize. Hirsimaki reports that labor cost doubled on the NKP between 1950 and 1958. That is why the last steam holdouts switched. In 1950 they still thought steam would continue indefinitely.
Also it is fascinating that they later merged two of the last US holdouts together yet didn't make a play for Illinois Central.
Of course.
Thats why it's so easy and cheap to rebuild and recertify a steam locomotive these days compared to doing the same thing for a Diesel.
Well, it's not cheap now because there is no economy of scale anymore. There are only a few shops with the tools, and only a few people withthe skills.
There is only one wheel lathe left in North America that can turn an 80" driver. That alone turns that into a massive project.
But in the day, when a long list of railroads had shops full of already amortizied equipment and staffs of skilled people, and paid little markup to outside vendors like GM or ALCO selling diesel parts, the costs of steam construction and maintenance were reasonable.
But labor dynamics changed, diesel reliablity improved, diesels proved their operational advantages, so that picture changed.
rrebell Easy to make a 0-6-0 into a 2-6-0 ect. Just will not match a specific engine but many do not care.
Since I freelance, I absolutely do not care about matching a specific engine, but more that they look "typical" and not easily identifiable to a certain railroad.
I can identify a SANTA FE, SOUTHERN PACIFIC, or PENNSYLVANIA steam locomotive very easily, so models of these prototypes are avoided.
Bachmann and Proto 2000 made a lot of locomotives that are nearly perfect for my needs, but then I decided to go with brass models instead.
PRR8259Incorrect. Both NKP and N&W reported that a four unit set of diesels was very expensive, actually more than twice the cost of a new Y-6B. It was only AFTER the labor costs increased dramatically during the 1950's that both roads chose to dieselize.
Yes, great point. The initial purchase cost of diesel locomotives during the dieselization years was higher than the cost of a steam locomotive.
It took a while for the economic advantages of diesel locomotives to be proven. Once this was established, which took over a decade, the railroads changed over.
A lot of people do not realize how expensive a diesel set of locomotives of similar power was when compared to a Challenger or a Y6-b. On-road reliability of diesels was also a point of concern during dieselization.
Also, the fact that a railroad's own repair shop could fabricate almost any part for their steam locomotives, but almost no parts for a diesel locomotive was another big part of the finiancial question than needed to be worked through.
Eventually diesels won out, but this was not the obvious outcome at the beginning.
The League of Railroad Accountants did not throw a huge party over the new availability of cheap diesels.
Engi1487 Hello John,Forgive me if I have not commented yet on the comments on my post, as I am a bit overwhelmed of how it took off. I have come to realize that I appriciate the smaller steam locomotives as well as the larger ones.I am aware of Rapidos concerns with their smaller steam engines maybe not being able to sell, altough I do hope with time, luck and a few good circumstances to see the rest come into fruition, being the rest of the Canadian steam locomotives on their list.
Hello John,Forgive me if I have not commented yet on the comments on my post, as I am a bit overwhelmed of how it took off. I have come to realize that I appriciate the smaller steam locomotives as well as the larger ones.I am aware of Rapidos concerns with their smaller steam engines maybe not being able to sell, altough I do hope with time, luck and a few good circumstances to see the rest come into fruition, being the rest of the Canadian steam locomotives on their list.
Hello,
No worries.
Regarding sales and pre-orders: well, we will see. I hope for all the steam fans out there that they do in fact get enough orders.
As for me, well, I like steam power but I'm at a point where I only need a couple steamers for my layout. I'm more interested in the time period that I am able to actually remember, albeit vaguely. I have vague memories of the 1970's and actually seeing Alco Centuries on a precious handful of occasions.
rrinker I keep meaning to repalce the QSI decoder in my Atlas Trainmaster, but it keeps chugging along, I've never had a problem with it, nor have I ever had issues programming it. It may be a bit out of date with regards to the quality of the sounds, but it does run well and the horn at least sounds correct. And it sounds fine at low volume for home use and also can get REALLY loud to run at club shows in a big venue. --Randy
I keep meaning to repalce the QSI decoder in my Atlas Trainmaster, but it keeps chugging along, I've never had a problem with it, nor have I ever had issues programming it. It may be a bit out of date with regards to the quality of the sounds, but it does run well and the horn at least sounds correct. And it sounds fine at low volume for home use and also can get REALLY loud to run at club shows in a big venue.
Mr. Randy, I also have two Atlas Trainmasters factory DCC w/sound, one in PRR #8703 and one in RDG #863. For some unknown reason, I can't remember at this time, I removed the shell of the RDG and the pot metal weights are cracking at different locations (metal rot). So I removed the shell from the PRR one, and no rot anywhere at all. Both engines purchased around 10-9-04 and on the same layout in the same room since then.
There are tiny chunks cracking off both front and rear weights. So the fragments can find their way in to moving parts and on to electricals.
Something you may want to look for in your units.
These two units of mine still sound good.
Back on Topic. As with my BLI, I run them for the first couple of hours and watch the RRamp meter to see if there is going to be a meltdown. Twice I was not watching the meter and then, 'What's that smell?', the Diesel switcher was still running then stopped dead, the top of the hood between the stacks was melting. This happened twice, to the first one then the second one that replaced the first one, to two different locos. I paid the different to my LHS and traded up to a BLI steam I1.Then after once bitten twice shy, at least a year later I got another BLI Diesel switcher at Timonium and that Saturday night it stopped running. Good thing I could get back in free on Sunday. Then all that I had to do is wait for the repaired loco. to come back in the mail from BLI. I still do not trust that Diesel switcher.
I'd say I have been lucky with my BLI stuff so far. I have a 1st gen Niagara that must be maybe 16 years old or something and it still goes fine, as does everything bar a Blueline A class which has a cracked axle gear. It's a pity but what to do? I hear plenty of flaming this firm and that but IMHO whilst I'd accept lining their owner's pockets - this is capitalism - the modelling world has offered some incredible products over the last 20 years so I'm not moaning. I am grateful in fact.
SeeYou190 richhotrain I am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon. I hate to take this thread off-topic. A new thread would be nice. Even though I have not been posting here, I have been following this thread and would probably enjoy your other conversation as well. -Kevin
richhotrain I am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon. I hate to take this thread off-topic.
A new thread would be nice. Even though I have not been posting here, I have been following this thread and would probably enjoy your other conversation as well.
Or the rationale for my new layout: prototype versus freelance versus combo?
MisterBeasley My BLI Hudson is almost 14 years old now. It's got one of the old QSI decoders. I've never had a problem with it.
My BLI Hudson is almost 14 years old now. It's got one of the old QSI decoders. I've never had a problem with it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Trainman440 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Charles, OK, I get those points, but your are cherry picking some info there. While the Bachmann 2-8-0 is "freelanced", if you compare prototype photos for many/most of those "fantasy" paint schemes, you see that they picked roadnames where their loco was a pretty good stand it, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND for example. And what about the USRA Pacific and Mike? Bachmann can make the headlights, trailing trucks, and tenders right enough, but Broadway won't? I only bought the two Mikes and one Pacific I have from Broadway because I wanted the "heavy" design. I replaced the trailing trucks with Athearn parts and the tenders with Bachmann parts. True, newer releases have not had "fancy" drive lines with sprung drivers or bearings, some did. In my 50 plus years experiance, those features are not always that important. Bowser steam locos, Mantua steam locos, Vaney steam locos all ran very well, many are still running, without bearings or sprung drivers. Those locos just lacked detail and model accuracy. And better features mean nothing without good quality control - like the two BLI Mikes I had to rebuild. Having 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steamers of various wheel arrangements and 7 BLI steamers of various wheel arrangements, I don't see any real difference in mechanical performance between the two brands. BLI only attracts the more experianced modelers of that short list of roadnames...... But of course I come from a time and place in this hobby when people build or modified models to make them better or more correct for their needs. I still do that, even with BLI models. Just like Athearn finally went to LED's, Bachmann has moved on to better colors - old news. Outdated dies? Not sure I get that one. A decent piece of tooling is a decent piece of tooling regardless of age. There is great tooling still in use in this industry that is as old as me. I was born in 1957. And crappy tooling is crappy, new or old, like BLI diesels with less detail than my 20 year old Proto2000 stuff. I add weight to all my steam locomotive tenders, every brand, they are all too light. Of all my Bachmann locos, only the 2-8-4's I converted to 2-8-2's and a N&W J that I am kit bashing into something else did I find the need to add weight. Yes, "quality" and "value" are very subjective. Sheldon I do believe bearings and sprung drivers do add to the quality of an engine. I will agree the difference isnt super noticable, and as far as "value" goes, most can do without, but I still prefer an engine with bearings than without. AFAIK Bachmann has never put any sorts of bearings in their steam engines. The "sprung" drivers has only been ususally a center axle sprung. Which helps... I will fully agree that Bachmann has made some very smart choices as to which prototype they chose to model. The EM1 and C&O 2-6-6-2 (class?) and the USRA mountains are very good choices, that Im surprised no one else chose to copy. Other choices not so much. Their Spectrum 2-8-2 painted for Susquehanna was some Chinese variant. I dont understand, what am I cherry picking exactly? I chose a "fantasy" model from both sides. It is generally agreed upon that Bachmann's 2-8-0 was based on the ICRR (far from a B&O E27, or WM H9), and BLI's 2-8-0 was based on the H10s. That comparison was purely to show how well Bachmann can sell their models than BLI can. Outdated dies: Bachmanns GS-4 shell was from long back when they bought it from Lionel. You must agree its a tad outdated with mostly molded on details. Their trainset level 0-6-0 that they want to charge $80 market price for is also quite old imo. Many of their diesels, the GP40, SD40, FTA engines, etc. Are also very very old and IMO dont very hold up well. I also didnt like seeing them changing the MA&PA 4-6-0 FROM having seperately applied details TO having molded on details when they moved them from Spectrum to their standard line. Im starting to forget what we were even debating about. Back to the topic, I see why BLI does such things, although I dont necessarily agree with their choice to no offer DCC ready versions. However, they seem to be doing just fine with their current offerings. They may not entice people like you, but they have hooked a fanbase of their own, and while Id like to see them diversify their prototypes (with B&O P1, or E27, or heck, even an NJC Camelback!), Im content with them continuing to create the models they are currently making. Cheers! Charles
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Charles, OK, I get those points, but your are cherry picking some info there. While the Bachmann 2-8-0 is "freelanced", if you compare prototype photos for many/most of those "fantasy" paint schemes, you see that they picked roadnames where their loco was a pretty good stand it, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND for example. And what about the USRA Pacific and Mike? Bachmann can make the headlights, trailing trucks, and tenders right enough, but Broadway won't? I only bought the two Mikes and one Pacific I have from Broadway because I wanted the "heavy" design. I replaced the trailing trucks with Athearn parts and the tenders with Bachmann parts. True, newer releases have not had "fancy" drive lines with sprung drivers or bearings, some did. In my 50 plus years experiance, those features are not always that important. Bowser steam locos, Mantua steam locos, Vaney steam locos all ran very well, many are still running, without bearings or sprung drivers. Those locos just lacked detail and model accuracy. And better features mean nothing without good quality control - like the two BLI Mikes I had to rebuild. Having 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steamers of various wheel arrangements and 7 BLI steamers of various wheel arrangements, I don't see any real difference in mechanical performance between the two brands. BLI only attracts the more experianced modelers of that short list of roadnames...... But of course I come from a time and place in this hobby when people build or modified models to make them better or more correct for their needs. I still do that, even with BLI models. Just like Athearn finally went to LED's, Bachmann has moved on to better colors - old news. Outdated dies? Not sure I get that one. A decent piece of tooling is a decent piece of tooling regardless of age. There is great tooling still in use in this industry that is as old as me. I was born in 1957. And crappy tooling is crappy, new or old, like BLI diesels with less detail than my 20 year old Proto2000 stuff. I add weight to all my steam locomotive tenders, every brand, they are all too light. Of all my Bachmann locos, only the 2-8-4's I converted to 2-8-2's and a N&W J that I am kit bashing into something else did I find the need to add weight. Yes, "quality" and "value" are very subjective. Sheldon
Charles,
OK, I get those points, but your are cherry picking some info there.
While the Bachmann 2-8-0 is "freelanced", if you compare prototype photos for many/most of those "fantasy" paint schemes, you see that they picked roadnames where their loco was a pretty good stand it, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND for example.
And what about the USRA Pacific and Mike? Bachmann can make the headlights, trailing trucks, and tenders right enough, but Broadway won't? I only bought the two Mikes and one Pacific I have from Broadway because I wanted the "heavy" design. I replaced the trailing trucks with Athearn parts and the tenders with Bachmann parts.
True, newer releases have not had "fancy" drive lines with sprung drivers or bearings, some did. In my 50 plus years experiance, those features are not always that important. Bowser steam locos, Mantua steam locos, Vaney steam locos all ran very well, many are still running, without bearings or sprung drivers. Those locos just lacked detail and model accuracy.
And better features mean nothing without good quality control - like the two BLI Mikes I had to rebuild. Having 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steamers of various wheel arrangements and 7 BLI steamers of various wheel arrangements, I don't see any real difference in mechanical performance between the two brands.
BLI only attracts the more experianced modelers of that short list of roadnames......
But of course I come from a time and place in this hobby when people build or modified models to make them better or more correct for their needs. I still do that, even with BLI models.
Just like Athearn finally went to LED's, Bachmann has moved on to better colors - old news.
Outdated dies? Not sure I get that one. A decent piece of tooling is a decent piece of tooling regardless of age. There is great tooling still in use in this industry that is as old as me. I was born in 1957. And crappy tooling is crappy, new or old, like BLI diesels with less detail than my 20 year old Proto2000 stuff.
I add weight to all my steam locomotive tenders, every brand, they are all too light.
Of all my Bachmann locos, only the 2-8-4's I converted to 2-8-2's and a N&W J that I am kit bashing into something else did I find the need to add weight.
Yes, "quality" and "value" are very subjective.
I do believe bearings and sprung drivers do add to the quality of an engine. I will agree the difference isnt super noticable, and as far as "value" goes, most can do without, but I still prefer an engine with bearings than without.
AFAIK Bachmann has never put any sorts of bearings in their steam engines. The "sprung" drivers has only been ususally a center axle sprung. Which helps...
I will fully agree that Bachmann has made some very smart choices as to which prototype they chose to model. The EM1 and C&O 2-6-6-2 (class?) and the USRA mountains are very good choices, that Im surprised no one else chose to copy.
Other choices not so much. Their Spectrum 2-8-2 painted for Susquehanna was some Chinese variant.
I dont understand, what am I cherry picking exactly? I chose a "fantasy" model from both sides. It is generally agreed upon that Bachmann's 2-8-0 was based on the ICRR (far from a B&O E27, or WM H9), and BLI's 2-8-0 was based on the H10s. That comparison was purely to show how well Bachmann can sell their models than BLI can.
Outdated dies: Bachmanns GS-4 shell was from long back when they bought it from Lionel. You must agree its a tad outdated with mostly molded on details. Their trainset level 0-6-0 that they want to charge $80 market price for is also quite old imo. Many of their diesels, the GP40, SD40, FTA engines, etc. Are also very very old and IMO dont very hold up well.
I also didnt like seeing them changing the MA&PA 4-6-0 FROM having seperately applied details TO having molded on details when they moved them from Spectrum to their standard line.
Im starting to forget what we were even debating about. Back to the topic, I see why BLI does such things, although I dont necessarily agree with their choice to no offer DCC ready versions. However, they seem to be doing just fine with their current offerings. They may not entice people like you, but they have hooked a fanbase of their own, and while Id like to see them diversify their prototypes (with B&O P1, or E27, or heck, even an NJC Camelback!), Im content with them continuing to create the models they are currently making.
Cheers!
Charles
Charles, I'm not going to disagree we any of that. Just keep in mind, Bachmann makes products for every segment of the market. Not every Bachmann product is going to satisfy more advanced modelers, they don't expect to. BLI on the other hand clearly claims to be high end, but then they cheap out on the Mike and Pacific to a level lower than Bachmann's somewhat "top of the mid range" product for the same/similar locos.
Personally, because I'm a model builder who will add detail if I want more, tune up a driveline if it can be made better, kit bash one loco into another, my choices are seldom driven by a need for out of the box RTR perfection.
I described above how I have kit bashed/modified 5 of the seven BLI locos I have.
richhotrain Why has Athearn for years and years installed crappy incandescent bulbs in their locos that burn out within hours of being placed on the layout? Rich
Why has Athearn for years and years installed crappy incandescent bulbs in their locos that burn out within hours of being placed on the layout?
richhotrainI am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon. I hate to take this thread off-topic.
I have a BLI NW2 and it derails at one spot that no other engine dose and only going forward. This is a well documented problem with this engine and I dont see an easy fix. The problem is the machining was slightly off and dose not happen with larger radius turnouts or broader curves. Will not buy any more BLI. I have had problems before with other engines but they were all user fixable.
Sheldon, check your PMs.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL So I would be interested to know which models you have and why they appeal to you, quality issues, good or bad aside. I am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon. I hate to take this thread off-topic. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So I would be interested to know which models you have and why they appeal to you, quality issues, good or bad aside.
I am debating whether to post on this thread, start a new thread, or just PM you, Sheldon.
I hate to take this thread off-topic.
PM or another thread, I am very interested in your operational scheme. As a freelance modeler blending in three prototype roads, my thinking is likely similar.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain I am going to cast my vote for BLI as an excellent manufacturer of steam locomotives. As I look at my steam roster, most of my steamers are BLI with two Proto Heritage and one Bachman Spectrum. At one time, I had a lot of Bachmann Spectrum steamers, but I dumped them all on eBay, as I considered them inferior to BLI. My BLI roster is mostly Paragon with a few Paragon 2 locos mixed in. I have avoided Paragon 3 because of the reported decoder problems. Rich So I would be interested to know which models you have and why they appeal to you, quality issues, good or bad aside. I understand you are primarily modeling a multi railroad passenger terminal and that would require a different mix compared to my modeling which only includes three interchanges with roads otger than my ATLANTIC CENTRAL. Sheldon
richhotrain I am going to cast my vote for BLI as an excellent manufacturer of steam locomotives. As I look at my steam roster, most of my steamers are BLI with two Proto Heritage and one Bachman Spectrum. At one time, I had a lot of Bachmann Spectrum steamers, but I dumped them all on eBay, as I considered them inferior to BLI. My BLI roster is mostly Paragon with a few Paragon 2 locos mixed in. I have avoided Paragon 3 because of the reported decoder problems. Rich
I am going to cast my vote for BLI as an excellent manufacturer of steam locomotives.
As I look at my steam roster, most of my steamers are BLI with two Proto Heritage and one Bachman Spectrum. At one time, I had a lot of Bachmann Spectrum steamers, but I dumped them all on eBay, as I considered them inferior to BLI.
My BLI roster is mostly Paragon with a few Paragon 2 locos mixed in. I have avoided Paragon 3 because of the reported decoder problems.
So I would be interested to know which models you have and why they appeal to you, quality issues, good or bad aside.
I understand you are primarily modeling a multi railroad passenger terminal and that would require a different mix compared to my modeling which only includes three interchanges with roads otger than my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
Because I am a sucker for steam, I have a peninsula devoted in part to steam, a roundhouse, turntable and coaling tower as part of an engine servicing facility shared by diesel locos.
The steamers pull freight around the perimeter of my layout shared by the diesel powered passenger trains on a double mainline, in part a 4-track mainline to replicate the old C&WI mainline that ran from Dolton IL to Chicago.
Sort of a mixture between simulating the prototype and freelancing to explan the presence of steam. Since all roads led to Chicago (and pretty much still do) in the 1950s and beyond, I felt that I could get away with all of these liberties on my new layout. Certainly not for the purists and rivet counters.
Let me get back to you in another post with my steam roster now that I have totally rationalized my setup.