I'm looking into buying a medium size steam engine like a Pacific or Mikado and I have seen some good sale prices being offered. Are the BLI engines reliable and worth adding to my fleet?
Dave
Heck yeah. They're good runners but my Mikado couldn't pull itself out of its own way.
WP Lives
The mechanical operation is very smooth, with very decent (my two anyway) power.
The sound functions are a bit finicky though.... The chuff sensors often have issues due to a very poor design flaw in them. (Reed switches only last so long....)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I'm surprised by these answers. There have been numerous threads here on problems with the Paragon 3 decoders resulting in mulitple trips back to BLI or replacement by other brands.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/278649.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/259357.aspx
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Like every manufacturer, they have some lemons, but overall I am very pleased with my BLI engines. I have two Hybrid NH I-5 4-6-4's, a Hybrid NH I-4 4-6-2 and a NH J-2 2-8-2 (USRA Light Mike).
At my club, we have a bunch that have come through the door. The C&O Texas is great. Most of the PRR engines have been great. The N&W Class A is outstanding. But, again, some lemons can appear from time to time. Most of their problems are sound decoder related. Worse come to worse, strip out the factory DCC board and replace it with something better.
Mechanically, I'd say they're very reliable. They run smooth and (usually) pull pretty well (my NH I-5 Hudson pulls a dozen passenger cars up our 3% grades without a traction tire). 99% of the time, a problem with a BLI steamer is in the electronics.
I have a NYC Hudson. I bought it for my own 60th birthday, and I just turned 73. The engine has run well the whole time, except when I had a problem of a gear slipping on a shaft, but a drop of CA fixed that.
The engine takes 18 inch curves just fine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have two first run (15 year old) cab forwards. They run great (knock wood) and a single loco can pull a 25 car reefer train up a 2% grade.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Hi!
I got 12 BLI steam engines. These engines are top notch, I highly recommend. I've had no issue with any of them except those with paragon 3 decoders. They seem to have some issue. I'd recommend looking for one with either a QSI decoder or a Paragon 2 decoder, as those are far more reliable.
Cheers!
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I have at least four, I think at the least. I lose track of things. All 4 of the four I can find are Paragon 2 (two M1 Mountain 4-8-2 and one I1 Decapod 2-10-0, one H10 Consolidation 2-8-0). Only trouble was with two, the M1's had their drivers only, sent back to BLI for cracked gears (a minor problem, BLI service was great and I had a two year warrenty back then). The I1 and H10 have traction tires (a good thing) and excellent sound and smoke... hack, hack, sneeze, sneeze. They all run smooth as silk.
It seems recently (past three years) buying a BLI Paragon 2 or more recently (past year) BLI Paragon 3, it seems to be a crap shoot, for me anyway. I am looking for a J1 Texas 2-10-4 but it will have to be ON SALE/DISCOUNTED PRICE. Reputation, service, trust and honesty means everything for repeat sales.
You need to know if what you are interested in is NEW IN BOX, FACTORY REFURBISHED or USED and I'd go for a Paragon 2 quicker then a Paragon 3 then I'd still wait for it to stop running or the ''Factory smoke'' to come out from under the shell. Yes, I'm Paranoid. Their only Toys, nice toys but with an expensive price tag.
They do look and sound awesome lugging a freight train with period correct rolling stock polishing the rails.
I have:
Paragons dating to 2004- Hudson 4-6-4, Niagara 4-8-4, J1 2-10-4, and a Platinum all-metal K4 4-6-2, all with QSI sound. They all still work fine, but I upgraded all the chips when QSI announced they'd settled over the litigation about BEMF.
I have a Blue Line Class A 2-6-6-4 with a QSI Titan in it, and a PCM Y6-b 2-8-8-2 with a Loksound (orignally) replaced with a Titan. Both still working nicely.
I have as brass hybrids - TTT-6 2-10-2 with QSI, Q2-4-4-6-4 with Paragon decoder, and a P2 Union Pacific 4-12-2. All work flawlessly.
I have a Paragon 2 Niagara, Paragon 2 Class J 4-8-4, and a Paragon 2 Hudson.
It's too bad some are reporting that the P3 decoders are problematic so often, but I don't think I've heard that the BLI mechanicals are bad. Mine are terrific. One thing you can count on is a good repair service and warranty. It might take some doing, but you'll eventually get a replacement or the same loco back fixed. I have sent back a total of four to be repaired, twice for my own fault.
My BLI locos are beautiful and mechanically very good. I have two P2 light pacifics that have given me no issues mechanically. Two P2 heavy mikados where one lost its chuff sensor. Two P3 light mikados that mechanically have been fine. One non-DCC Niagara (I installed a TCS decoder in it) that mechanically is fine. The P2 decoders are okay, not great. They have some issues, but nothing I can't work around until I replace them. The P3 decoders I can't stand and will be replaced as soon as I'm able. All of the locomotives pull very well though. (All but the Niagara have traction tires, and I'm good with that.) Big thumbs up there.
Mike
Well, opinions vary, and there do seem to be some decoder problems recently with BLI.
Disclaimer: I run DC, and I remove all decoders, dual mode decoders do not work with my Aristo Craft DC wireless radio throttles.
That said, I have seven BLI steamers, two Reading T-1's (offered in DC form years ago when first released), two N&W class A's, two USRA heavy 2-8-2's, and one USRA heavy 4-6-2.
They all run nice mechanically, but both 2-8-2's had mechanical issues that required me to tear them down and "rebuild" them. They are both older, from much earlier production runs, one not even made in the current factory.
With their electricals reworked to my needs, and with five of the locos now sporting different tenders from Bachmann, they all run well.
Understand, the BLI Pacifics and Mikados are "generic" USRA versions and the USRA heavy Pacific does not have the correct size drivers.
So for example, the B&O lettered versions do not have correct bell or headlight locations, the trailing truck is incorrect, the tenders are close to "as built" but not typical of later years, etc, just to mention the most obvious stuff.
Most of the others locos made by BLI are well detailed, reasonably accurate models of specific prototypes.
Sheldon
Well, I'm going to answer this question a bit differently:
First, I am one of the people who has experienced issues with BLI Paragon 3 engines. On some, like the Great Northern S-2, the only significant problem was the sound intermittently cutting out at speed--very annoying, but not a deal breaker. On others, like the UP 4-6-6-4, the crappy 3 amp hogging (yes tested by repair guy and was literally drawing 3 amps) motor fried the motor control circuit in about 5 days from brand new. I had new motor and P3 updated decoder installed by a third party repair service very quickly, with model back in my hands in less than 3 weeks, including shipping both ways. Added cost of $160 over my purchase price. (A BLI warranty repair is averaging 8 to 10 weeks, and might actually need to go back a second time if all they do is update decoder and NOT replace the amp hogging motor.)
So, as I've been searching for GOOD steam power, road name no object, any wheel arrangement, I have actually gone through every single steam engine on Brass Trains website, at under $1000 asking price, and I've looked at what it was, what kind of paint and condition it was in, if painted at all, and how well they said the models run, also versus my knowledge of the builders, etc. and when the model was made, as particularly with Korean models, the year of production affects projected durability and consequently, value.
On BrassTrains website, the BLI brass hybrids are also included with all the other full-on brass models. One can easily compare the BLI models to other models of the same or similar prototype, that may have been made by other builders, and maybe don't have sound/smoke/lights at all, but might be a nice model with even better detail, maybe even a great layout runner.
BrassTrains tells you if the model has been modified, updated, has a new motor or new gearbox, and often who did the work.
So, after looking at hundreds of models and thousands of photos, I can objectively say the paint finish and detail on the BLI brass hybrids is actually outstanding for the price point at which they sell the models. There are actually very few full on brass models out there that have the same or similar level of detailing as the BLI brass hybrids at that price, and the BLI paint and lettering rivals the very best work from Sam Model Tech and Boo Rim (the current most highly sought after builders, whose engines can easily exceed $1000 now).
For myself, so far this year, I was able to find some older brass models for the same or sometimes less than the price of some BLI hybrids that met my needs more effectively. One is a reworked older Tenshodo (1971 built) 2-8-0, beautifully painted by Hal Maynard, and customized (tender swap and pilot swap) to model one specific real prototype engine (GN #1215), with a new can motor installed. I wanted a "bullet proof" layout runner, and an old Japanese Tenshodo with his pro paint and customization fits the bill. Being GN with a green boiler were both plusses.
So in conclusion, I would say that IF the model you want or need for your layout is only made by BLI, or might be an articulated made by BLI but also available for likely a lot more money in brass, and you are willing to possibly have to deal with the Paragon 3 decoder issues or sound issues, then the BLI engine might be the best choice.
I had a BLI Brass Hybrid and I bought it second hand. Worked at the train show, but as soon as I got home it fried the decoder and I had to send it back to get repaired. Waited three months for it to get fixed and then they fixed it, but forgot to fix the external damages I found before I sent it back...So I'd say they're great when they work, but the customer support needs to do better. I ended up selling it so I could focus on my NP A-2 4-8-4 from Precision Scale Co. So Yeah I only had the BLI Brass Hybrid for about two weeks and decided I didn't want it as it's not NP... But now that I helped BLI with getting the NP A-3 and SP&S E-1 Class 4-8-4s made I am excited for them...
Thanks,
Logan Thurman
I have five BLI steamers on the BRVRR. The first is from 2004, a NYC/PLE Mikado that has been flawless for more the 14-years. A NYC Hudson, P2, 4-6-4 from 2005. In addition there is a PRR T-1, P2, 4-4-4-4, PRR J1A, P2, 2-10-4 and a NYC Niagara, P2, 4-8-4. All are good pullers except the PRR T1. Though I rarely run freight trains longer the 16-cars or passenger trains with more than 10-12-cars.
A couple of the more recent locos, the J1A and the T1 have been sent back for repair of the chuff/smoker. Always quick service and always correct.
I don't think you can beat a BLI steamer.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Ok, I have a few more comments. Normally I would not answer the OP's question this far outside of what he asked about, but here goes.
For me buying steam locomotives is not about getting the most detailed version of some particular "famous" loco, and it is not about collecting, or about sound effects.
But it is about building a good running believable roster of locos for the theme of my layout. In my case the freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL and the three roads I model interchanges/trackage rights with, B&O, C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
So I am looking for reasonably representative models of specific prototypes. Even locos for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL need to be logical for the region and era.
So there are no BigBoys lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
All that said, I have about 50 steam locos, and as mentioned only seven are from BLI.
Most are Bachmann/Spectrum, others include Proto Heritage, Rivarossi, IHC, Mantua, and a few older brass pieces.
If I was buying a USRA light Mikado or Pacific today, I would most likely buy the Bachmann model, not the BLI model.
Even though I have only had serious trouble with the two BLI Mikados, as a percentage of locos purchased, I have had much fewer problems with Bachmann, and better service and support. I have five times more Bachmann than BLI, but have only had "warranty" trouble with four Bachmann locos. Bachmann made everyone right, BLI could not even sell me correct parts to fix the Mikados........
If I felt the roster needed a loco only offered my BLI, I would buy it at the right price. But given a choice of brands, at similar prices, I would likely go elsewhere first.......
I only buy things that fit my choice of the Reading as a prototype - therefore, BLI has made exactly one loco I cna use, the T-1 4-8-4. I have 2 of them, both the old PCM version which has Loksound decoders, not BLI's own decoder. They are fine, none of the issues with the newer homegrown decoders. They've re-run the T-1, but besides now using their own decoder, they added smoke, which I would never use, so I haven't picked up any of these newer versions.
If they made something I could use - and if I could get it cheap enough to justify swapping the decoder with a good reliable one, I'd probably buy it, they do have nice detailing and are pretty decent mechanically.
My ex father in law was a PRR fan, he got a few of the early BLI locos, with QSI decoders. We never had a problem running any of them. Many of those replaced older brass - GEM and NJI (Daiyung) - he got more for the brass than he paid for the BLI, and the BLI locos had more detailing and ran better than those older brass models.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A friend of mine at the club has a BLI Mikado. I don't know how old it is. At some point, it had power pickup issues at the tender, which I fixed. The soldering had broken on the trucks. An easy fix. Otherwhise, it runs very well, with excellent sound.
I would recommend it. I was looking for one myself when I stumbled upon an Oriental Powerhouse 2-8-2 at a good price on Ebay. Both are light Mikados, but the rubber tires on the BLI will allow it to outpull the Oriental Powerhouse. When necessary, I doublehead my Powerhouse with a Mantua 2-8-4 that I re-detailed, re-powered and equipped with a keep-alive. Both will pull a good string of cars...
Sheldon recommends the Bachmann, and it's hard to disagree from a mechanical perspective. But the molded details are a bit of a disapointment given the price tag...
Simon
DAVID FORTNEY I'm looking into buying a medium size steam engine like a Pacific or Mikado and I have seen some good sale prices being offered. Are the BLI engines reliable and worth adding to my fleet? Dave
I don't model steam but I have read a lot of comments about having issues with some BLI Steam engines. There may be a reason some good sale prices are being offered. BLI has reportedly dealt a lot with QAQC problems and ended up with a bunch of engines either through returns or other reasons.
I have read that BLI stands behind their products but some have sent them back multiple times and eventually got tired of it.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
snjroy A friend of mine at the club has a BLI Mikado. I don't know how old it is. At some point, it had power pickup issues at the tender, which I fixed. The soldering had broken on the trucks. An easy fix. Otherwhise, it runs very well, with excellent sound. I would recommend it. I was looking for one myself when I stumbled upon an Oriental Powerhouse 2-8-2 at a good price on Ebay. Both are light Mikados, but the rubber tires on the BLI will allow it to outpull the Oriental Powerhouse. When necessary, I doublehead my Powerhouse with a Mantua 2-8-4 that I re-detailed, re-powered and equipped with a keep-alive. Both will pull a good string of cars... Sheldon recommends the Bachmann, and it's hard to disagree from a mechanical perspective. But the molded details are a bit of a disapointment given the price tag... Simon
Neither the Bachmann or the BLI Mikado are highly detailed, both have their share of molded on details.
But Bachmann did manage to offer different trailing trucks and tenders for more accurate models.
And again, my full disclosure, I'm not invested in decoder or sound quality because I will buy the DC version or remove the decoder.
Price? Retail prices mean nothing.
Toy Train Heavan has the Bachmann w/sound priced at $279, and the latest runs of the BLI at $288, and few versions at $273. Both brands have a street price that is basically the same?
LoganTMTI had a BLI Brass Hybrid and I bought it second hand. Worked at the train show, but as soon as I got home it fried the decoder and I had to send it back to get repaired. Waited three months for it to get fixed and then they fixed it, but forgot to fix the external damages I found before I sent it back..
So, you purchased a loco second hand, found some external damage, and then mention that BLI didn't fix that damage. Is that correct?
Somehow I don't think that BLI should be responsible to repair that. But that's my opinion.
PRR8259So in conclusion, I would say that IF the model you want or need for your layout is only made by BLI, or might be an articulated made by BLI but also available for likely a lot more money in brass, and you are willing to possibly have to deal with the Paragon 3 decoder issues or sound issues, then the BLI engine might be the best choice.
Kind of where I am. I could be wrong, but so far I've not seen anyone else recently making "northern" type steams (like 261) for The Milwaukee Road. I intend to purchase a BLI as funds are available.
Andy
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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/
Thanks everybody for your thoughts but I made a decision and it was a Bachmann Mikado with dcc and sound value. It runs and looks great. Even though the BLI model is very nice there was not allot of difference between the two except for price.
I just don't trust paragon 3 boards after talking to friends and postings here. Actually the Bachmann ran smoother when I tested both.
I'm happy with my decision.
David
I have a BLI 2-8-2 #3289. The front headlight works and runs great foward/backward. It has DCC/sound, but can only pull 29 cars around the club layout. If I add a BLI NW2 Switcher behind it, will that increase the locomotive's pulling ability by a few more cars?
F3's are nice, but a 2-8-2 can be used as backup power on occasion for my Transition Era Mixed Freight.
Two questions:
Do the BLI 4-6-2's have slightly more pulling power than a 2-8-2?
Do BLI's Paragon 2 steamers run better than the new Paragon 3's?
ATSFGuy I have a BLI 2-8-2 #3289. The front headlight works and runs great foward/backward. It has DCC/sound, but can only pull 29 cars around the club layout. If I add a BLI NW2 Switcher behind it, will that increase the locomotive's pulling ability by a few more cars? F3's are nice, but a 2-8-2 can be used as backup power on occasion for my Transition Era Mixed Freight. Two questions: Do the BLI 4-6-2's have slightly more pulling power than a 2-8-2? Do BLI's Paragon 2 steamers run better than the new Paragon 3's?
That #3289, is that the BLI's stock # or road #?
You really asked three questions.
#1 Adding a NW2 along with a 2-8-2, as long as it is not deadheading, you will pull more cars.
#2 Depends on the weight of the loco. and if traction tires are installed on one or the other or neither or both.
#3 Run better? My P2 and P3 all run excellent. A P2 may run longer.
As with pulling 29 cars around the club layout, well first I'd have to know what each car weighs and rolling resistance, straight track or through curves and grades. If your pulling twenty nine MDC/ROUNDHOUSE shorty flats empty or twenty nine 50' gondolas loaded, big difference. Short cars usually less weight, long cars usually more weight, but not always true.
Some of my 50' gondolas with live loads weigh 12.0 oz. each. Some cars in this train weigh the NMRA standards. With three Bi-level's loaded with 10 to 12 Mini Metal cars, even though not to cool looking behind a steamer but just for testing at this time, my BLI 2-8-0 H10 with traction tires did pull ahead with no less then thirty two assorted cars while pulling a BLI SW1500 running in the opposite direction. Yep, I had to try that.
I have a 1st run Brass-Hybrid Dreyfuss 4-6-4 (DC, no sound). It had some minor issues out of the box, like too strong of a spring in the rear truck and a wire rubbing on the flywheel. A few minutes of work fixed that, and it's been a completely trouble free runner ever since. That, and it looks incredible! http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/182749.aspx
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The cars on my transition era freight are mostly Athearn 40’ boxcars, a PS2-2003 Hopper, four 34’ open coal hoppers, some Proto 1000 or 2000 8,000-10,000 tankers, three or two 50’ flatcars, two 50’ gondolas and a steel cupola caboose. All late 1940’s - early 1960’s stuff.
I have two BLI locomotives and I love 'em. One is an older Blueline UP "Big Boy". It's a very smooth runner right out of the box. The Blueline didn't last too long. They had sound but were made for DC, not DCC.
The other is a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern locomotive with a Paragon 3 "Rolling Thunder" decoder. I have an older one that has their Quantum decoder. That decoder has given me nothing. There's a guy that upgrades to a Paragon 3. I think one of these days, I will send it off to him to have him do that.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 The other is a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern locomotive with a Paragon 3 "Rolling Thunder" decoder. I have an older one that has their Quantum decoder. That decoder has given me nothing.
The other is a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern locomotive with a Paragon 3 "Rolling Thunder" decoder. I have an older one that has their Quantum decoder. That decoder has given me nothing.
??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Notice of new postings to subjects we follow?Are we ever going to receive these again??
(we can keep getting new pop up ads, but proper repairs to the forum software??)