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American Model Builders Caboose laser cut kit

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:14 PM

maxman
I believe that you said "nice caboose".  If a nice young thing were passing by, you might get slapped if you said "she has a ...." 

LaughLaughLaughLaugh

Okay, I'm obviously getting really slow these days!!!Dunce

That's one of the reasons I like going to our favourite restaurant, and no, they don't have model trains!!Smile, Wink & Grin I do keep my thoughts to myself however!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, November 16, 2019 8:51 AM

I'm glad you tackled that, Steve's getting tired of putting me on moderationDevil

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, November 16, 2019 8:47 AM

hon30critter
I must be slow. I still don't understand your 'no' comment. Please enlighten me. If I said something that offended you I would like to know so I won't do it again.

LOL!  No, you didn't do anything offensive.  Just notch up the throttle a bit.  I believe that you said "nice caboose".  If a nice young thing were passing by, you might get slapped if you said "she has a ...."  If that doesn't clear it up, think of the Mel and Tim song, Backfield In Motion, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0AU5Mckb3Q.

That's not about a football penalty, eh.

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, November 16, 2019 1:50 AM

maxman
Stepping down should be easy.  I needed an extension ladder to climb up into it.

I must be slow. I still don't understand your 'no' comment. Please enlighten me. If I said something that offended you I would like to know so I won't do it again.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, November 16, 2019 1:37 AM

hon30critter

 

 
BigDaddy
For things like grab irons and hand rails, or cast metal parts glued to wood or styrene, I would use a super glue, aka CAA, not PVA.

 

I agree.

Dave

 

 

And well you should.

 

At the risk of hijacking the thread, although recognizing that adhesives were part of the OP's inquiry, I believe I left the wrong impression with some readers.

gmpullman
I find myself using the PVA/Canopy cement more often these days.

I don't suggest modelers toss all their cyanoacrylates in the rubbish right away. I probably have two-dozen different grades and brands of CA within reach of my bench at the moment. Gels, gap filling, accelerators, Gorilla Glue, Ultra, Professional and a few other types I forget. Sure there are times when nothing else will do.

I mention that I find more uses for the better grades of PVA, skip the Elmer's School Glue unless you're making masks out of construction paper and grocer's bags. 

I have found the canopy cement and Faller Laser Expert cement is handy for, yes, wire grab irons, brake staffs, brake rigging and several other tasks. When it comes to sticking LEDs into headlight housings there's nothing better. It stays pliable, does not FOG the paint or clear styrene, can be removed if necessary. A few days ago I had to replace a broken grab iron (plastic) on a Proto2000 box car. Since I used the PVA I could tug at the remains of the stub and pull them out leaving a clean hole to stick the replacement into.

When it comes to things like stirrups or items where I need more durability I now prefer two-part epoxy rather than CA. If I have small detail parts that are painted then the SuperGlue is a good choice.

The PVA takes some getting used to. Sometimes I have to allow it to get a little tacky before assembling the part. It is also handy for securing coupler box and bolster screws, kind of acting like a "thread-locker" (LockTite) type of thing. Often, I find I have to leave the coupler box screw a little loose so the coupler doesn't bind. Just a tiny dab of PVA around the head of the screw prevents it from turning but the bond can easily be broken if needed.

Just sayin' what works for me. Happy Modeling, Ed

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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 15, 2019 11:05 PM

BigDaddy
To understand Maxman you are going to have to step down into the gutter with the rest of us.

Stepping down should be easy.  I needed an extension ladder to climb up into it.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, November 15, 2019 9:13 PM

hon30critter
maxman At the risk of being slapped, I have no comment! I don't understand your (no) comment.

Hmm

Subtle humor is lost on the Internet.  To understand Maxman you are going to have to step down into the gutter with the rest of us.  No offense to Maxman, I get it. Big Smile

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 15, 2019 9:01 PM

maxman
At the risk of being slapped, I have no comment!

I don't understand your (no) comment.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:59 PM

gmpullman
For the photo I simply flipped the truck upside down but left the bolster screw in place so the OP could see the flat surface of the bolster and to answer his question about what kind of screw I used

Okay, now I understand. I wondered why the 'bottom' of the truck looked so plain. That's because it was the top! I should also have twigged based on where the brake rigging and other details were located.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:55 PM

BigDaddy
For things like grab irons and hand rails, or cast metal parts glued to wood or styrene, I would use a super glue, aka CAA, not PVA.

I agree.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, November 15, 2019 5:08 PM

maxman
Okay, thanks. But if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.

For things like grab irons and hand rails, or cast metal parts glued to wood or styrene, I would use a super glue, aka CAA, not PVA.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Motley on Friday, November 15, 2019 4:06 PM

Ok thanks Ed, I just ordered a bunch of 2-56 screws.

I have all the parts painted now. I first used primer (2 light coats), and used the standard Testors flat red, and flat black for the roof.

 

Michael


CEO-
Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, November 15, 2019 3:16 PM

hon30critter
Nice caboose! Why is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?

Hi, Dave

Thanks for the compliments on my caboose Embarrassed

In the photo I simply removed the truck screw and placed the up-turned truck on the floor over the truss rods.

The Kadee self-centering truck has a small pivot that the screw is passing through and is unseen in the photo. This pivot has indexes on it which engage recesses in the truck bolster so that when you lift the car the trucks automatically align to the centerline of the car, thus making rerailing (on tangent track) a little easier.

maxman
I believe that we are looking at the top the truck, so the screw will be in the correction orientation when the truck is turned over.

Correct.

For the photo I simply flipped the truck upside down but left the bolster screw in place so the OP could see the flat surface of the bolster and to answer his question about what kind of screw I used.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 15, 2019 2:19 PM

hon30critter
What's worse - having two screws when you need three or having 100 screws when you only need two?!? I vote for 100 screws. If I never come close to using all of them then I will call myself a collector!

If I need two screws, I go to the local hardware store and buy them.  But since I spent a large portion of my working career with craft labor where you had to give them three of everything (one to use; one to lose; one to steal). I always get a couple extra.  The extras get put in a large can.  That can is overflowing.

Then the next time I need two screws I still go to the hardware store because it is faster than pawing through that large can looking for a matched set.

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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 15, 2019 2:08 PM

hon30critter
Nice caboose!

At the risk of being slapped, I have no comment!

hon30critter
Why is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?

That confused me also.  I believe that we are looking at the top the truck, so the screw will be in the correction orientation when the truck is turned over.

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Posted by Graham Line on Friday, November 15, 2019 1:18 PM

The Faller glue mentioned earlier is a really good consistency for laser-cut wood kits. It comes in a white bottle with red cap and lettering, a metal tube applicator, and is called "Faller Expert Laser". Part number is 170494 and my neighborhood hobby shop carries it.  Also comes with a handy wire attached for cleaning the applicator tip.

 

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 15, 2019 12:16 PM

Hi Ed,

Nice caboose!

Why is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:59 PM

hon30critter
Most of these are not stainless steel but I don't think that is much of an issue.

A while back I decided to boost my inventory of "layout screws" both pan head and flat head sheet metal screws (which I drive mostly into wood) from #4 up to #12, plus a bunch of small machine screws from0-72 through 6-32.

For a couple bucks more I got all stainless.

Bang Head Dunce Dunce Super Angry

Most of my drivers are magnetized and for installing Tortoise machines or tricky, contorted truck or coupler screws I like to "stick" the screw onto the driver to get it started. The stainless screws sit in the bins. At least they won't corrode.

Duh —   I went back and bought all the same screws, this time in carbon steel.

Much happier now Big Smile

[edit]

Motley
How did you attach the trucks? What screws do I need?

Here are the photos I took of the underside and the bolster. One reason the self-centering Kadee is nice is that the centering pin and truck bolster contact the car bolster on a nice, flat plane.

 NYC_19186_bolster by Edmund, on Flickr

Here's a view of the truck bolster:

 NYC_19186_truck by Edmund, on Flickr

—and one more look at the finished car. The queen posts and turnbuckles are very fragile, being cut from thin wood. I would get some styrene ones from Tichy or brass ones from Cal Scale or Precision.

 NYC_19186 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:52 PM

maxman
So, if a package of 100 screws costs $6 and you use all of them, then they are 6 cents each.  But if you only need to use 2 of the screws doesn't that make the ones you use $3 each?

LaughLaughLaughLaugh

Okay maxman, I confess! My father bought 'stuff' just to have 'stuff' and I guess I am not cut far from the cloth.

What's worse - having two screws when you need three or having 100 screws when you only need two?!? I vote for 100 screws. If I never come close to using all of them then I will call myself a collector!Smile, Wink & Grin

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:15 PM

hon30critter
That works out to 32 screws @ $0.38 per screw.

hon30critter
Both the packs of 100 and the assortments work out to about $0.06 per screw or less

So, if a package of 100 screws costs $6 and you use all of them, then they are 6 cents each.  But if you only need to use 2 of the screws doesn't that make the ones you use $3 each? Devil

I confess that I have a similar thought process when I have to buy paint.  A gallon is always much, much cheaper than buying 4 quarts.  But if I only actually needed 1/2 gallon, then I get stuck with an extra 1/2 gallon that costs me time and money to get rid of.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:00 PM

Hi Michael,

The screws will work but if I understand the package properly, you are only getting four of each size of screw. That works out to 32 screws @ $0.38 per screw. While I could see the assortment being useful as something to take along when you are going to the club or exhibiting at a train show, if you need larger quantities that will get expensive real quick. I suggest that you have a look at these guys:

https://www.microfasteners.com/

Most of their stuff is in packs of 100. That usually means that you will have far more than you need, but you will always have them on hand when you need them.

They do offer assortments as well. For example:

https://www.microfasteners.com/aststtrn-small-steel-fastener-assortment-for-trains.html

Most of these are not stainless steel but I don't think that is much of an issue.

Both the packs of 100 and the assortments work out to about $0.06 per screw or less.

I buy multi compartment plastic boxes like these to keep them sorted. I suggest using the type that has a separate lid for each compartment. The boxes with single lids and removable dividers can get messed up if a divider moves out of place:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-Slots-Clear-Plastic-Box-Jewelry-Bead-Storage-Container-Craft-Organizer-Decor/233201843585?hash=item364be9bd81:m:mZg6sT-yfNsSNhFZ_mkFZCQ

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 9:51 PM

maxman
But if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.

I find myself using the PVA/Canopy cement more often these days. Grab irons, brake wheels, sticking little people in a scene, I've even attached loose-fitting delrin handrails on locomotives with it and LEDs into locomotive shells. Plus the stuff can be peeled away from most non-porous surfaces which can be handy sometimes.

Using super-glue type adhesives have always caused me grief. 

Thanks, Ed

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 9:45 PM

gmpullman
Lots of names out there for the same thing. Elmer's white glue. But there are lots of modified formulas. The stuff I gave the link to seems to be thinner but seems to adhere to dissimilar materials very well

Okay, thanks.  But if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 14, 2019 7:30 PM

I bought the Tahoe Model Works Bettendorf Caboose trucks.

Will this Kadee screw assortment kit work?

https://kadee.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1130

Michael


CEO-
Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 7:11 PM

maxman
What exactly is PVA glue

Poly(vinyl acetate) (PVA, PVAc, poly(ethenyl ethanoate): best known as wood glue, white glue, carpenter's glue, school glueElmer's glue in the US, or PVA glue) is an aliphatic rubbery synthetic polymer with the formula (C4H6O2)n.

Lots of names out there for the same thing. Elmer's white glue.

But  there are lots of modified formulas. The stuff I gave the link to seems to be thinner but seems to adhere to dissimilar materials very well. I also use it to cement acetate to the insides of passenger cars, much as you would a canopy cement.

I suppose you could add a little water to any of the white glues with similar results.

For a slightly thicker PVA I use the "Formula 560" Canopy cement. Slightly different characteristics. 

Elmer's Glue is a pretty common brand name in the US and parts of North America but in the rest of the world I guess its PVA.

I only discovered the product after needing another $6. to raise my total on an order so I could qualify for free shipping. Once I tried it, I liked it.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:58 PM

gmpullman
I use a PVA glue from Faller, which is very thin, to seal the edges and prevent the part from peeling away. The thin glue will soak into the joint by capillary action. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/faller-ho-170494-expert-laser-glue-multi-purpose-7-8oz-25g/ If you decide to use this glue be sure to keep the needle clean. I have to rinse it out with water quite often (left-hand threads on the cap)

What exactly is PVA glue and what on the label on the product in the link would help me identify that item as PVA?

 

Thanks

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:57 PM

BigDaddy
There was supposed to be a detail kit that was no longer available and I had to make my own railings.

Some of the early AMB caboose kits required you to use a plastic underframe from IIRC, an Athearn Blue Box kit? I have two of their NKP wood caboose kits and one has the plastic floor and the newer one is built-up of all wood construction with resin steps.

Those railings look fine to me, Henry Cool

Regards, Ed

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:51 PM

There was supposed to be a detail kit that was no longer available and I had to make my own railings.  Not as good as Ed's but it was my first attempt ever. 

I painted parts separately and before window glazing.

I use 2-56 screws for trucks and couplers. 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:51 PM

Thank you, Motley YesSmile

Motley
How did you attach the trucks? What screws do I need?

I used the self-centering Kadee T Section caboose trucks which came with their own #2-56 screws. I would have to take a look at the underside to see exactly how I arranged the bolster. As I recall the car came out a wee bit low but shims are easily applied.

https://kadee.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=411

I possibly used a strip of Evergreen styrene tapped for the screw and cemented to the wood floor. I'll try to get a photo posted as soon as I get to the layout.

Thanks again, Ed

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