I just purchased 2 American Model Builders Caboose kits. I have never had a laser cut kit before, so first time building these.
Looking for some tips on how to paint and build the kit. I also purchased the Tahoe Model Works #TMW 105 Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Trucks. (reccomended from AMB website).
A little intimidating looking at the many parts in the kit. The instructions appear to be good and detailed.
What kind of paint and glue should I use. Will Elmers glue all work? For the red caboose paint what do I need. For the silver bits can I use rustolem silver (already have that).
Any other tips for building this kit is appreciated. Will the sections being glued together show? If so how do I fill the gaps.
Do I paint all the parts first then assemble?
It looks complicated, how long can I expect to spend building it.
I can post photos here of the completed kit.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
There was an excellent step by step article in Model Railroader a few years back.
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I would find it and start there.
For wooden kits I use yellow wood glue and brush paint everything with Vallejo Acrylic paints. That works for me, but I do not know if it is the best way to put one of these together.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
AMB kits are very well engineered and go together easily. Just take one step at a time. Much of the assembly will use the peel and stick method. For the rest Elmer's will work, although I like Sig's yellow...or any yellow "carpenter's" glue, which is much more economical. Paint everything you can before assembly. If you're using acrylics, be sure to add bracing where there might be warping and/or pin the parts down to dry. Airbrushing avoids most warping issues. I'd be surprised if you have any gaps as the parts usually fit nicely. Get started and you'll soon have a really nice model.
Mike
Hi Motley,
I would suggest priming all the pieces before removing them from the panels. Any cheap automotive primer will work (not acrylic). Paint both sides of the bare wood pieces but only the front side of the self adhesive bits. If you are going to be using lighter colours or blues/greens use gray primer. If you are going to paint the caboose red or brown, use red primer. Apply two or three light coats, alternating sides.
If you are using acrylic colour coats the primer will prevent warping, although additional bracing on the larger flat pieces is a good idea too, as was suggested in an earlier post.
You can still use wood glue to assemble the kit.
I have not built an AMB kit, but if they are as accurate as their Laser Kit window glazings are, they should fit together very nicely.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Ok thanks for the help on this. I just started the first step, inside walls with no paint required on them.
I need to get the paint, will just go with primer and spray paint instead of acyrilics.
I will post photos when completed.
hon30critterI would suggest priming all the pieces before removing them from the panels.
I am in the same camp as Dave on this one. I've built several laser-cut kits and I've enjoyed every one. One of the rolling stock kits was a New York Central wood caboose.
IMG_7223_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_7255 by Edmund, on Flickr
I pre-painted as many of the pieces I could using Krylon red oxide primer. I like Krylon as it doesn't seem to build up as thick as other primers.
MotleyI just started the first step, inside walls with no paint required on them.
I suggest painting every exposed wood surface. The unpainted side may absorb moisture and lead to warping. When placing the very thin sectioned parts with the sticky backing I use a PVA glue from Faller, which is very thin, to seal the edges and prevent the part from peeling away. The thin glue will soak into the joint by capillary action.
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/faller-ho-170494-expert-laser-glue-multi-purpose-7-8oz-25g/
If you decide to use this glue be sure to keep the needle clean. I have to rinse it out with water quite often (left-hand threads on the cap)
IMG_7231 by Edmund, on Flickr
I later painted the exposed edges of the ceiling beams as shown above as well as the gray primer on the floor.
IMG_7251_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Note the end rails and ladder are very thin sectioned wood pieces. Delicate? Pre painting will help strengthen these parts to a small degree.
NYC_190xx by Edmund, on Flickr
Here's the caboose nearly finished still in the Krylon primer. I wasn't too satisfied with the outcome of the yellow grab irons as the paint came out a bit thicker than I wanted but for now they will stay. I used a white primer on them and put it on too thick.
Once finished I used a brush and hand painted a color closer to New York Central oxide brown/red before using dry transfers to letter the car.
caboose track2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Wow that Caboose looks great Ed. I probably can't come close to that good. This will be a learning process for me. I have two of these so hopefully I will do better with the 2nd kit.
How did you attach the trucks? What screws do I need?
Thank you, Motley
MotleyHow did you attach the trucks? What screws do I need?
I used the self-centering Kadee T Section caboose trucks which came with their own #2-56 screws. I would have to take a look at the underside to see exactly how I arranged the bolster. As I recall the car came out a wee bit low but shims are easily applied.
https://kadee.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=411
I possibly used a strip of Evergreen styrene tapped for the screw and cemented to the wood floor. I'll try to get a photo posted as soon as I get to the layout.
Thanks again, Ed
There was supposed to be a detail kit that was no longer available and I had to make my own railings. Not as good as Ed's but it was my first attempt ever.
I painted parts separately and before window glazing.
I use 2-56 screws for trucks and couplers.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyThere was supposed to be a detail kit that was no longer available and I had to make my own railings.
Some of the early AMB caboose kits required you to use a plastic underframe from IIRC, an Athearn Blue Box kit? I have two of their NKP wood caboose kits and one has the plastic floor and the newer one is built-up of all wood construction with resin steps.
Those railings look fine to me, Henry
Regards, Ed
gmpullmanI use a PVA glue from Faller, which is very thin, to seal the edges and prevent the part from peeling away. The thin glue will soak into the joint by capillary action. https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/faller-ho-170494-expert-laser-glue-multi-purpose-7-8oz-25g/ If you decide to use this glue be sure to keep the needle clean. I have to rinse it out with water quite often (left-hand threads on the cap)
What exactly is PVA glue and what on the label on the product in the link would help me identify that item as PVA?
Thanks
maxmanWhat exactly is PVA glue
Poly(vinyl acetate) (PVA, PVAc, poly(ethenyl ethanoate): best known as wood glue, white glue, carpenter's glue, school glue, Elmer's glue in the US, or PVA glue) is an aliphatic rubbery synthetic polymer with the formula (C4H6O2)n.
Lots of names out there for the same thing. Elmer's white glue.
But there are lots of modified formulas. The stuff I gave the link to seems to be thinner but seems to adhere to dissimilar materials very well. I also use it to cement acetate to the insides of passenger cars, much as you would a canopy cement.
I suppose you could add a little water to any of the white glues with similar results.
For a slightly thicker PVA I use the "Formula 560" Canopy cement. Slightly different characteristics.
Elmer's Glue is a pretty common brand name in the US and parts of North America but in the rest of the world I guess its PVA.
I only discovered the product after needing another $6. to raise my total on an order so I could qualify for free shipping. Once I tried it, I liked it.
I bought the Tahoe Model Works Bettendorf Caboose trucks.
Will this Kadee screw assortment kit work?
https://kadee.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1130
gmpullmanLots of names out there for the same thing. Elmer's white glue. But there are lots of modified formulas. The stuff I gave the link to seems to be thinner but seems to adhere to dissimilar materials very well
Okay, thanks. But if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.
maxmanBut if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.
I find myself using the PVA/Canopy cement more often these days. Grab irons, brake wheels, sticking little people in a scene, I've even attached loose-fitting delrin handrails on locomotives with it and LEDs into locomotive shells. Plus the stuff can be peeled away from most non-porous surfaces which can be handy sometimes.
Using super-glue type adhesives have always caused me grief.
Thanks, Ed
Hi Michael,
The screws will work but if I understand the package properly, you are only getting four of each size of screw. That works out to 32 screws @ $0.38 per screw. While I could see the assortment being useful as something to take along when you are going to the club or exhibiting at a train show, if you need larger quantities that will get expensive real quick. I suggest that you have a look at these guys:
https://www.microfasteners.com/
Most of their stuff is in packs of 100. That usually means that you will have far more than you need, but you will always have them on hand when you need them.
They do offer assortments as well. For example:
https://www.microfasteners.com/aststtrn-small-steel-fastener-assortment-for-trains.html
Most of these are not stainless steel but I don't think that is much of an issue.
Both the packs of 100 and the assortments work out to about $0.06 per screw or less.
I buy multi compartment plastic boxes like these to keep them sorted. I suggest using the type that has a separate lid for each compartment. The boxes with single lids and removable dividers can get messed up if a divider moves out of place:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-Slots-Clear-Plastic-Box-Jewelry-Bead-Storage-Container-Craft-Organizer-Decor/233201843585?hash=item364be9bd81:m:mZg6sT-yfNsSNhFZ_mkFZCQ
hon30critterThat works out to 32 screws @ $0.38 per screw.
hon30critterBoth the packs of 100 and the assortments work out to about $0.06 per screw or less
So, if a package of 100 screws costs $6 and you use all of them, then they are 6 cents each. But if you only need to use 2 of the screws doesn't that make the ones you use $3 each?
I confess that I have a similar thought process when I have to buy paint. A gallon is always much, much cheaper than buying 4 quarts. But if I only actually needed 1/2 gallon, then I get stuck with an extra 1/2 gallon that costs me time and money to get rid of.
maxmanSo, if a package of 100 screws costs $6 and you use all of them, then they are 6 cents each. But if you only need to use 2 of the screws doesn't that make the ones you use $3 each?
Okay maxman, I confess! My father bought 'stuff' just to have 'stuff' and I guess I am not cut far from the cloth.
What's worse - having two screws when you need three or having 100 screws when you only need two?!? I vote for 100 screws. If I never come close to using all of them then I will call myself a collector!
Cheers!!
hon30critterMost of these are not stainless steel but I don't think that is much of an issue.
A while back I decided to boost my inventory of "layout screws" both pan head and flat head sheet metal screws (which I drive mostly into wood) from #4 up to #12, plus a bunch of small machine screws from0-72 through 6-32.
For a couple bucks more I got all stainless.
Most of my drivers are magnetized and for installing Tortoise machines or tricky, contorted truck or coupler screws I like to "stick" the screw onto the driver to get it started. The stainless screws sit in the bins. At least they won't corrode.
Duh — I went back and bought all the same screws, this time in carbon steel.
Much happier now
[edit]
Here are the photos I took of the underside and the bolster. One reason the self-centering Kadee is nice is that the centering pin and truck bolster contact the car bolster on a nice, flat plane.
NYC_19186_bolster by Edmund, on Flickr
Here's a view of the truck bolster:
NYC_19186_truck by Edmund, on Flickr
—and one more look at the finished car. The queen posts and turnbuckles are very fragile, being cut from thin wood. I would get some styrene ones from Tichy or brass ones from Cal Scale or Precision.
NYC_19186 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
Hi Ed,
Nice caboose!
Why is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?
The Faller glue mentioned earlier is a really good consistency for laser-cut wood kits. It comes in a white bottle with red cap and lettering, a metal tube applicator, and is called "Faller Expert Laser". Part number is 170494 and my neighborhood hobby shop carries it. Also comes with a handy wire attached for cleaning the applicator tip.
hon30critterNice caboose!
At the risk of being slapped, I have no comment!
hon30critterWhy is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?
That confused me also. I believe that we are looking at the top the truck, so the screw will be in the correction orientation when the truck is turned over.
hon30critterWhat's worse - having two screws when you need three or having 100 screws when you only need two?!? I vote for 100 screws. If I never come close to using all of them then I will call myself a collector!
If I need two screws, I go to the local hardware store and buy them. But since I spent a large portion of my working career with craft labor where you had to give them three of everything (one to use; one to lose; one to steal). I always get a couple extra. The extras get put in a large can. That can is overflowing.
Then the next time I need two screws I still go to the hardware store because it is faster than pawing through that large can looking for a matched set.
hon30critterNice caboose! Why is the truck screw installed from the top down? Is that the way it will stay or is that just temporary?
Hi, Dave
Thanks for the compliments on my caboose
In the photo I simply removed the truck screw and placed the up-turned truck on the floor over the truss rods.
The Kadee self-centering truck has a small pivot that the screw is passing through and is unseen in the photo. This pivot has indexes on it which engage recesses in the truck bolster so that when you lift the car the trucks automatically align to the centerline of the car, thus making rerailing (on tangent track) a little easier.
maxmanI believe that we are looking at the top the truck, so the screw will be in the correction orientation when the truck is turned over.
Correct.
For the photo I simply flipped the truck upside down but left the bolster screw in place so the OP could see the flat surface of the bolster and to answer his question about what kind of screw I used.
Ok thanks Ed, I just ordered a bunch of 2-56 screws.
I have all the parts painted now. I first used primer (2 light coats), and used the standard Testors flat red, and flat black for the roof.
maxmanOkay, thanks. But if never occured to me that white glue would adhere to dissimilar materials like metal and wood.
For things like grab irons and hand rails, or cast metal parts glued to wood or styrene, I would use a super glue, aka CAA, not PVA.
BigDaddyFor things like grab irons and hand rails, or cast metal parts glued to wood or styrene, I would use a super glue, aka CAA, not PVA.
I agree.
gmpullmanFor the photo I simply flipped the truck upside down but left the bolster screw in place so the OP could see the flat surface of the bolster and to answer his question about what kind of screw I used
Okay, now I understand. I wondered why the 'bottom' of the truck looked so plain. That's because it was the top! I should also have twigged based on where the brake rigging and other details were located.
maxmanAt the risk of being slapped, I have no comment!
I don't understand your (no) comment.
hon30critter maxman At the risk of being slapped, I have no comment! I don't understand your (no) comment.
Subtle humor is lost on the Internet. To understand Maxman you are going to have to step down into the gutter with the rest of us. No offense to Maxman, I get it.