York1 riogrande5761 I find all of this discussion a bit like morbid wallowing, like life is basically over and mostly all that is left is to remember the past. While I don't disagree, I think it also is a call to those of us who love this hobby. We can't stand the thought that in 20 years, the hobby as we know it will have died out unless new young modelers take it up.
riogrande5761 I find all of this discussion a bit like morbid wallowing, like life is basically over and mostly all that is left is to remember the past.
While I don't disagree, I think it also is a call to those of us who love this hobby. We can't stand the thought that in 20 years, the hobby as we know it will have died out unless new young modelers take it up.
dknelsonThe 1950 to 1956 time frame was an era of a constant stream of new entrants into the hobby, so changes in average income were not necessarily just pay raises for the same group of guys working the same basic job, but for new entrants of a higher income level.
And don't forget the higher paying unionized industrial and construction jobs. A high school dropout could land a high paying industry or construction job.
Even at 15 I was making $50.00 a day unloading boxcars-that's two boxcars a day or one 50' double door boxcar loaded with lumber-pay was by the linear feet. You had to work fast unloading the car to make that money though.
I had a Social Security card and lied about my age. They didn't check ages back then.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
selectorForty percent inflation between 1950 and 1956?!!!?? It's not stated specifically, but if wages increased that much, so did inflation, even if only somewhat closely.
That statistic struck me too. One possible explanation is that the GI bill was being taken advantage of in large numbers and people were upwardly mobile in the work force due to their new educational level, and so their new jobs and pay grades took effect during those 5 years.
Another explanation is that over that time period the model railroading population became less working class (skilled labor, often) and more professional class: so it wasn't an increase in wages for the same work, or the same worker, but different lines of work. The 1950 to 1956 time frame was an era of a constant stream of new entrants into the hobby, so changes in average income were not necessarily just pay raises for the same group of guys working the same basic job, but for new entrants of a higher income level.
Dave Nelson
Facinating stuff. Thanks so much for posting it!
My dad was born in '56 and though it wasn't a main hobby of his, both he and one of his brothers did model trains (O and HO respectively) for several years. I assume it was as kids but I should ask. He still has his Lionel trains and a box of his model airplanes. The last time I visited my uncle he said he still had his trains but hadn't run them in a long while. The next time I visit I'm going to surprise him with an oval of EZ track and a transformer and bring some cleaning and lubing supplies.
I haven't bothered with issues of MR pre-80's as I don't model much before then, but I've really enjoyed reading some of the books published in the 50's and 60's just for the perspectives, writing style and ideas contained within. It's facinating to see what ideas and developments were distinctly "of-their-time" and which have endured.
The statistics in the first post don't surprise me much. Especially the ages of the hobbyists as that was the same time that model building and other relatively skill-and-labor-intensive hobbies were in full flower among the youth.
My guess is that the parents of those born in the 50's and 60's largely hadn't grown up with the hobby and hadn't taken it into adulthood.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
Harrison There are two other "serious" teen modelers in our RR group. there is only one younger adult, everyone else is retired.
Somehow I missed that I'm retired. Darn, I could have used that time for my trains instead of working.
wjstixOne thing I'd be interested in seeing is how many of the modellers reported being in a club. People back then were joiners - veteran's clubs, civic organisations, bowling leagues, religious groups (Knights of Columbus, Masons) etc.
That might depend on a modelers location. I know of 4 HO clubs within 30 miles of me here in Ohio.There is a live steam group as well. There may be a 5th HO group in Tiffin but,I'm not sure if they are still around.
What a timely topic! I spoke to my 1st train mentor about when is a suitable time to start in this hobby. He agreed with me that waiting until near or past retirement is a challenge for somen. I agree. There are plenty of difficulties I face doing this hobby while working full-time and raising a young family.
The hobby has certainly evolved. Here's hoping for an infusion of mutiple generations! Seeing life beyond a mobile phone and computer is a challenge. Something nostalgic about trains that I hope my generations appreciates!
I'll have to check that survey out - I have the MR all-time CD-Rom which I decided to go through from the beginning, but I've only gotten up to WW2.
One thing I'd be interested in seeing is how many of the modellers reported being in a club. People back then were joiners - veteran's clubs, civic organisations, bowling leagues, religious groups (Knights of Columbus, Masons) etc.
The age thing isn't that surprising. Although it had been around a while, model railroading really got kick-started in the US by the model railroad display at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair - Model Railroader magazine and the NMRA started shortly after that. Model railroading was dealing with electrical stuff that appealed to young guys in the 1920's-30's, along with things like radios (also relatively new then), so attracted the same folks that in later generations would be interested in say computers.
One thing that's interesting is that as I recall a similar MR poll done around 1980 had similar results - the average age was around 38. It was noted that the most common modeling era was the 1950's, and MR speculated as to whether that would change - were 38 year olds interested in modeling their teen years, hence the 1950's now but maybe the 1960's in a decade, or were the 1950's transition era something special that would remain popular in the future.
SeeYou190 It is a shame that the hobby has become a haven for old men. -Kevin
It is a shame that the hobby has become a haven for old men.
-Kevin
Allthough that is mostly true, There are two other "serious" teen modelers in our RR group. there is only one younger adult, everyone else is retired. My dad likes to say "you've lowered the average age in the club by about 20 years."
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
selector Forty percent inflation between 1950 and 1956?!!!??
Forty percent inflation between 1950 and 1956?!!!??
Actually, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator, the overall price level only increased by 17% between January, 1950 and December, 1956. OTOH, it increased 80% between January, 1975 and December, 1981. Prices actually slightly more than doubled between 1 January, 1975, and 31 Decembe, 1984. In the equivalent 10 year period 1/1/1950 to 12/31/1959, overall prices only increased 25%.
Inflation was pretty tame in the 50’s. Not so much in the late 70’s - early 80’s.
Andre
Don't forget major industry was unionized and the pay was above average.. A high school dropout could make good money by learning a trade taught by his employer and in return the employee would spend the next 40 years working that job. This would include railroad work.
selector Forty percent inflation between 1950 and 1956?!!!?? It's not stated specifically, but if wages increased that much, so did inflation, even if only somewhat closely. Right after a major war, when people were grateful, elated, full of optimism, skilled at problem-solving of all kinds, who had learned to be thrifty and handy with tools and materials...yeah, I can see that so much more scratch-building was going on than it is today. People who had lived under a dark cloud for five years suddenly had money, work unrelated to war production or operations, had more time to kill, and wanted diversions of all kinds. Stand-up paddle boards had not been invented, motorcycles were related to gangs largely (The Wild Bunch, Hell's Angels movies...), the first snowmobile was still being putt-putted around fields in northern Quebec, and people were falling in love with cars and RVing. Now, few people of any age work with their hands, few garden, fewer purchase and own cars...even homes!...the millenials can't afford to do anything except rent, often from their own parents at bargain....ummmm.....basement...rates. They put their money in electronics and services packages...and now into ready-made food delivered right to their doors. Skip the Dishes...indeed! Not much disposable income if you're eating out every day and earning barista wages.
Forty percent inflation between 1950 and 1956?!!!?? It's not stated specifically, but if wages increased that much, so did inflation, even if only somewhat closely. Right after a major war, when people were grateful, elated, full of optimism, skilled at problem-solving of all kinds, who had learned to be thrifty and handy with tools and materials...yeah, I can see that so much more scratch-building was going on than it is today. People who had lived under a dark cloud for five years suddenly had money, work unrelated to war production or operations, had more time to kill, and wanted diversions of all kinds. Stand-up paddle boards had not been invented, motorcycles were related to gangs largely (The Wild Bunch, Hell's Angels movies...), the first snowmobile was still being putt-putted around fields in northern Quebec, and people were falling in love with cars and RVing.
Now, few people of any age work with their hands, few garden, fewer purchase and own cars...even homes!...the millenials can't afford to do anything except rent, often from their own parents at bargain....ummmm.....basement...rates. They put their money in electronics and services packages...and now into ready-made food delivered right to their doors. Skip the Dishes...indeed! Not much disposable income if you're eating out every day and earning barista wages.
I think that wage increase was tied to modelers responding to MR's survey not necessarily to overall income increase for the country which more plausible
Love the thread title.
In 1960 on my third Birthday we moved into our newly built house across the harbour from Vancouver, it was on the edge of the wilderness as our street was as far as the sudivision had gone up the mountain. Our street had 14 houses and 38 kids on it and I had the perfect place to spend my childhood.
We would always have grand adventures and as long as we were home by dark all was good. If we were hungry while out playing we would just pull up a carrot and eat it dirt and all. Plums, apples and cherries were plentiful. I loved radishes and my pockets were always full of them from someones garden. All summer long sleepovers were the norm and we slept outside on a deck or on the back lawn of someones house. The dogs kept the wildlife away while we slept, life was perfect.
True we didn't wear helmuts and I remember a serious head injuries of some of my friends involving a skateboard, another one on a bike, and numerous ones on the pond playing hockey in the winter. Some of these kids had life long issues as a result and helmuts would have been a good thing.
My Dad had seatbelts installed in our cars long before it was law to have them, in the winter of 1966 they saved the lives of the whole family when at highway speed we were involved in an accident and everything that was not tied down was ejected from the car and thrown over a cliff. Thanks Dad.
We tend to only remember the good things of our past and I had mostly good times but I don't forget the bumps along the road including the loss of friends and family.
I don't know if life was better, it sure was different. People just don't like change, but change is growth and fulfillment comes from growing and learning. My life has been great and there is nothing much I would change. I have had challenges like most us do but moved to fix any issues as fast as I could and move on.
My kids do not sit and whine about anything and that makes me happy. They are on their way and I don't need to worry about them at all. They are living life to the fullest and it should be a good ride for them.
In my 62 years I have made a lot of friends and acquaintances and there are a few of them that are terrified of dying, they are the ones that haven't yet lived. What a waste.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
MisterBeasleyRemember, we didn't live as long back then.
I think it depended on your job. There was a lot of hard manual industrial jobs back then that kept a person fit verus those who worked a 9-5 job behind a desk.
Remember, we didn't live as long back then. Modern medicine usually told a patient that cancer was a death sentence, and heart transplants were distant dreams. If you waited until retirement, you might not have the years that we do now to build a pike.
In 1956, I was nine years old and still running my Lionel's on a couple of 4x8s.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
York1We can't stand the thought that in 20 years, the hobby as we know it will have died out unless new young modelers take it up.
In good old Europe and the British Isles, the hobby of model railroading, while not (yet) up to the heights of its heydeys in the 1960s, is gaining momentum - also due to the industry catering for the young novice in terms of good quality at affordable prices. Brands like Piko do a wonderful job in that matter. IMHO, the situation cannot be compared to the US. Trains are still very much a part of every day life here and a growing number of people use the train for their daily commute, rather than being stuck on the freeway and having tompay horrendous parices for citry parking.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
schief Think Lovecraft, King, Halloween themes, etc
This would make an interesting post - serious fantasy layouts. If you search, you will find a layout based on King's Derry Maine.
Thank you, I will check that out.
I have not found much out there in my searches. One I am a fan of is by a gentleman named John Ott. He created the HO scale Miskatonic Railroad which has some beautiful photos on his website.
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And every new and younger modeler that joins up means more products to choose from for everyone!
More young people would be great.
Living the dream.
riogrande5761I find all of this discussion a bit like morbid wallowing, like life is basically over and mostly all that is left is to remember the past.
York1 John
RR_MelFor me model railroading has been a great ride, 68 years having the greatest blast of my life and will be until I’m pushing up grass.
Mel,I couldn't agree more.. I wouldn't take back one second spent in this hobby. The hobby has help me through troubled times and the death of my wife.
Tinplate ToddlerMoms stayed at home to take care of the kids, we didn´t wear helmets when riding a bike, nor did we have seat belts in the car to restrain us. We ate unhealthy food, no vegan smoothies or the likes, nor did we eat any of that prefab stuff put on the dinner table these days. It was a home cooked meal each day! It´s a miracle we survived!
This about sums that up.
dknelsonPlease return the spoon to the drawer when you're finished with it. Dave Nelson
Thanks, I'll return the spoon after it is run through the dishwasher.
The title was wasted on folks like me who were never big readers; and what I did read back when actually had time for it was sci fi.
While I am creeping up there, I'm not yet in the habbit of living in the past and waxing nostalgic about how it cost me 25 cents to see 2001 A Space Odessy at the Travis Air Force Base Movie theater back when it was released. Wait, you elicited that from me!
I find all of this discussion a bit like morbid wallowing, like life is basically over and mostly all that is left is to remember the past. I like to model the 1970's because I like those trains the best, but not so much to live in the past.
Anyway, thanks for explaining that title. More pearls before swine like me!
Now while I am poor when it comes to literature and poems, some music has some thoughtful lyrics that kind of relate to this topic. A song by Alan Parsons Project - Old and Wise:
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
1956 was the year I was born. My dad was younger than my my son is today. My dad passed away 6 years ago.
The hobby was certainly very different from today, but so was life in general. In my country, all WWII rubble was removed and cleared and reconstruction almost done. People again had enough to eat and that was beginning to show. Not every household had a refridgerator, let alone a washing machine. Even a bathroom with a tub or a shower was a luxury to some. We were lucky, we had a real bathroom in our two-bedroom apartment. We three kids shared a room - unthinkable today! Cars were few and playing in the street was not a life-threatening affair at all. My family didn´t own a car before 1966! The streetcar took us around town, and traveling was done by rail. In those days, it was usually a steam engine pulling the train!
Compared to today, people were poor, but not unhappy. Sometimes I think they were happier in those days, when very little meant very much. Today, very much has no value to us, as we take things for granted.
The hobby was thriving. Whenever the railroad put a new type of engine on the tracks, it didn´t take much time for the corresponding Marklin, Fleischmann or Trix model to appear in the windows of the local toy shop. They usually ended up to be an item in the letter to Santa. A big and, at least for me, difference was that products presented at the Nuremberg Toy Fair were actually available in time for Christmas. You didn´t have to wait for a couple of years, then.
Life back then was a lot simpler and less complex. We had to make do with what we got. Things we could afford we didn´t have. We didn´t run debts, but had money in the bank instead, although the income was much lower than today. Moms stayed at home to take care of the kids, we didn´t wear helmets when riding a bike, nor did we have seat belts in the car to restrain us. We ate unhealthy food, no vegan smoothies or the likes, nor did we eat any of that prefab stuff put on the dinner table these days. It was a home cooked meal each day! It´s a miracle we survived!
I run the risk of getting carried away...
riogrande5761BTW, maybe it's getting late and Im tired, but what does the title have to do with the body of the post? Feed me with a spoon please.
The quote is not related to the novel or film of a similar title, but to their source: a famous poem by William Butler Yeats, Sailing to Byzantium. It is generally taken to be a lament about old age and the fight that we wage against age. He imagines that alternatives exist, mystical alternatives, in which age does not matter.
The relationship of title to post is, then, that our hobby and to a large extent, these Forums, have become in similar ways to the poem, about the experiences we've had with the hobby, and an expression of views about the hobby, by those of us who as "average" hobbyists are often retired or retirement age or approaching retirement age. Yet in 1956 our age demographic was just about a nullity in the hobby from a statistical standpoint. I find that amazing.
Look how often we post about how things used to be, or what they used to cost, or what Model Railroader or other magazines used to look like, comparing today to decades past. In 1956 this was a young person's hobby, often very young. It was not aimed at, or evidently attractive to, people our age. And all that energy and creativity and ambition involved in being model railroaders -- those are attributes of youth, and youth has gone from being a huge majority in the hobby to being a very slender minority. And thus to complete the circle back to the poem, those of average model railroading age who HAVE that energy, creativity and ambition have taken Yeats's voyage. They have found the alternative to age. And I envy them for it.
That's all.
Please return the spoon to the drawer when you're finished with it.
This kind of plays into what people want out of the hobby. If the main interest is running trains and operations, the already built stuff is probably the easier road to navigate to. For my interest which is creating my own world, modeling skills are something I have to continually work on because a prototype does not exist and everything will have to be scratch built or kitbashed. Luckily, that designing process is what draws me to this so it works for me.
I think that is what makes this hobby so uniquely great, even if your interest is only in the research or electronic aspect, plenty of opportunity awaits in that arena as well.
For most of us, it is probably a combination of things to various degrees.
As a child I watch my dad scratchbuild a PRR 0-8-0 using brass stock and a Varney 2-8-0 drive. No,I did not inherit his scratchbuilding skills a curse of growing up in the era of Athearn BB and plastic structure kits and later brass engines. I did learn to kitbash somethng my dad refuse to do when scratchbuilding gave more room for a closer model.
My point? Back in the early years of the hobby one had to have tons of skills from reading blue prints,forming brass stock ,the use of a soldering iron and other assorted skills.