maxman jjdamnit some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
jjdamnit some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
That sounds like a club setting? Twenty lashes with a wet noodle to the dirty sod who handles trains with cheese curl orange fingers! Yuk!
I prefer to handle my own rolling stock with clean hands.
Paul3 The problem with the method of using regular serrated pliers to squeeze the trip pin is that many people can't do it properly. Some folks are just not coordinated enough to hold the car with one hand and properly place the pliers on a spring-loaded coupler.
The problem with the method of using regular serrated pliers to squeeze the trip pin is that many people can't do it properly. Some folks are just not coordinated enough to hold the car with one hand and properly place the pliers on a spring-loaded coupler.
True. Back when I started using the needle nose pliers to bend my trip pins, I was a starving college student and buying a special Kadee tool would have been something I deemed an unnecessary luxury, so naturally I developed the skill to gently squeeze the trip pin to bend it just a hair up. Occasionally if I wasn't holding it right, it would pop out of the pliers but with time that became rare.
Many times I've had to fix or replace a Kadee at my club because someone tried to adjust the trip pin but instead put the upper plier jaw on the knuckle, not on the top of the pin. The result is a bent knuckle
It always seemed "common sense" to me to place the bottom and top of the pin against the pliers but as you noted, common sense is sometimes missing.
The straight pliers are useful in a pinch (hey, I made a funny!), but I would recommend the Kadee benders; they are a wise investment. Also, remember to choke up as much as possible when using them. You don't want to bend the very end of the trip pin up like a candy cane, you want to adjust the height while keeping the pin end roughly level with the track. This means put the bending jaws as close to the coupler bottom as possible.
Maybe one of these days I'll finally buy the proper Kadee benders, but I've managed to get the technique of the needle nose pretty well.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
SeeYou190 Make a simple "go/no-go" gauge from two pieces of 0.020" scrap styrene. . If the trip cleares the first step but snags on the second you know it is adjusted between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head, and you will never have a problem.
Make a simple "go/no-go" gauge from two pieces of 0.020" scrap styrene.
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If the trip cleares the first step but snags on the second you know it is adjusted between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head, and you will never have a problem.
The Kadee trip pin gauge is not a "Go/No-Go" style, so it is not as accurate.
A go/no-go gauge is used for checking tolerances. If a part is specified to be 1" diameter +/- .005", then the go gauge will be 1.005" diameter, and the no-go gauge will be .995" diameter.
But Kadee does not specify a +/- tolerance for trip pin clearance. They specify a 1/32" minimum clearance only. They never say it CAN'T be 1/16", though it clearly shouldn't be because the magnetic action won't be as strong.
So a go/no-go gauge would not be used, only a go gauge. And that gauge, according to Kadee's specifications, should be .031" (1/32") thick, and sitting on the rail tops.
The .020"/.040" gauges will accept pin clearances below the .031" specification (.025", for example), and are therefore incorrect. A piece of .030" styrene would likely be an adequate choice for a gauge.
Ed
Many times I've had to fix or replace a Kadee at my club because someone tried to adjust the trip pin but instead put the upper plier jaw on the knuckle, not on the top of the pin. The result is a bent knuckle that points to the rail (since the knuckle is weaker than the pin). The problem is that not only can it affect coupler height, but it also promotes uncoupling under tension because now the coupler face isn't perpendicular to the track. Sometimes I can "save" it by grabbing the knuckle and bending it back up, but other times the Kadee is just too damaged to use.
kasskabooseNot to disrupt the flow, but how often to check the trip pin
If a car derails randomly and more often than other cars, one of the things to check is coupler and trip pin height. You will be checking other things as well, so just one more.
Dave
jjdamnitsome use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
I don't think I would appreciate it if some stranger's hand with cheese curled orange fingers came out of the sky and picked up my freshly painted rolling stock.
doctorwayne If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. One jaw is placed near the lower tip of the trip pin, the other on the top end of the trip pin, atop the coupler. I've never had to bend a trip pin to make it lower. Wayne
If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. One jaw is placed near the lower tip of the trip pin, the other on the top end of the trip pin, atop the coupler. I've never had to bend a trip pin to make it lower.
Wayne
Ditto to what Wayne and Frank do. Being delicate is critical to avoid breaking the pin. Some trip pins broke off after my move, so I thought I'd need to replace those couplers. What a reassuring thread that some remove them purposely!
Agree with what someone wrote about buying a coupler gauge. That is an invaluable tool and worth double what you pay! Note to self: remove from the track when running trains.
Not to disrupt the flow, but how often to check the trip pin?
What Frank shows above has always worked well for me.
doctorwayne If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge. Wayne
If the couplers are at the proper height, but the trip pin is hanging too low, I use regular blunt-nosed pliers, with serrated jaws, to bend the trip pin so that it matches the Kadee height gauge.
SeeYou190The Kadee trip pin gauge is not a "Go/No-Go" style, so it is not as accurate.
According to the above, matching the pin to the Kadee height guage is not considered a "go" buy the "go/no-go" rules. I do what you do Wayne, and no issues. It's a go for me.
Been doing it that way from the early 60's.......have never damaged one. Also I never encountered one that was too high either.........
Take Care!
Frank
Hello all,
At the Colorado Model Railroad Museum in Greely, Colorado, they have cut off all the trip pins on their couplers.
All the operators use what ever method they prefer to uncouple the cars. Some use picks, some use skewers and some use the “Hand of God” method- -physically picking up the cars.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
maxman Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I have never had any problems uncoupling them using the Allen Strang designed uncoupling tool Who? Lionel, maybe?
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I have never had any problems uncoupling them using the Allen Strang designed uncoupling tool
Who? Lionel, maybe?
Oops I don't know what I was thinking. I meant Lionel Strang. Allen Strang is a fictional character in a play.
I clip the pins short. I have the Micro Mark tool, but once I bent the pins into a curl they would catch on each other. Like you, I had a problem with the trip pins snagging on stuff as the cars rolled along, especially at grade crossings. So, now, I just clip them all short.
Rich
Alton Junction
General Rule. If the trip pin is low, then the coupler itself is low. A pair of #6 flat washers under the trucks will raise the coupler up to proper height. As with all rules, there are exceptions, but not many.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Da heck with couplers, ... LION uses DRAWBARS
Can you say 48 wheel pick-up?
ROARING
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
SeeYou190 The Kadee trip pin gauge is not a "Go/No-Go" style, so it is not as accurate. -Kevin
-Kevin
The only "go no-go" I've ever heard of is a point on the runway airplane needs to abort a take off or proceed.
Anyway, I've just used my eyes to check my trip pins for the last 35 years and never had a problem with trip pins causing derailments. Works for me.
bearmanBeats me, Ja Bear. I try to be somewhat gentle when I bend the trip pin. Maybe I should be more aggressive.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I use skewers to uncouple, so I don;t really need the trip pins, but I haven't been brave enought o clip any off. None are too low, some may be too high to work with a magnet, but I did sit down and paint a lot of them - couplers and the pin, couplers with rust (did not have any problem with the paint causing them to stick - just work them back and forth a few times and they are not stuck), the hoses get oily black, and as a final touch I use a silver paint marker to dab one side of the cut off end of the pin with to make it look more like the glad hand at the end of the hose. From normal viewing angles this looks 10x better than bare unpainted Kadees. Simple and fast to do - I assembly-lined it, the rust on the coupler head takes the longest but by the time you work through a bunch of cars, the first one is dry enough to to the hose. Then by the time you finish all the hoses, the first one is dry enough to use the silver marker. I did cheat and had a helpwer - it's in the construction progress section of my web site, I sat outside on a nice day working through a couple of boxes (Spring Mills carrying cases) of cars, and I had a squirrel hanging out so close I could have pet him.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
No trip pin, no problems. If you are considering cutting them off, then the affore mentioned appendage of the Kadee is not required, and you can replace them entirely with a better looking coupler (IMO). Sell the Kadees on Ebay.
http://www.sergentengineering.com/
For diaphragm equipped equipment, there is a Sergent uncoupling tool for that too.
I, for one, will keep my trip pins. I model a railroad that had a number of car body-type locos that all have diaphragms. It's darn near impossible to uncouple anything with working diaphragms. This also applies to my large fleet of passenger cars.
Besides, I enjoy the "hands free" magnet uncoupling the trip pins give me and the ability to uncouple inside buildings if I have to (using a magnet). That and they are much faster to classify a yard with.
Spend the time to set Kadees up correctly and you'll have literally decades of flawless operation out of them.
For a good go-no go gauge, get the MicroMark one:https://www.micromark.com/Coupler-Gauge-for-HO-Standard-Gauge
For $10.95, it's a wise investment. The back of the gauge has the trip pin shelf (which the trip pin should not touch). BTW, I have found that the MicroMark gauge is actually more accurate than the Kadee gauge. The Kadee gauges I have are actually a little lower than proper.
riogrande5761Or break the bank and get a Kadee coupler height gauge which really should be a standard item in your model RR tool box.
Of course I have a Kadee coupler height gauge.
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 Make a simple "go/no-go" gauge from two pieces of 0.020" scrap styrene. If the trip cleares the first step but snags on the second you know it is adjusted between 0.020" and 0.040" above the rail head, and you will never have a problem. -Kevin
Or break the bank and get a Kadee coupler height gauge which really should be a standard item in your model RR tool box. It has a trip pin built in.
Of course, use genuine Kadee couplers, and in Kadee boxes if possible.
oldline1...The lousy clip that retains the couplers in the box can become loose and let the coupler droop. Crummy, cheap way to do couplers. Everyone else used a screw to retain everything....
Actually, a lot of manufacturers used coupler box covers with an integral pin that simply pushed into a hole in a mounting boss inside the coupler box - too loose and it would drop out, too tight and it would break off if you ever needed to remove the lid.The Athearn metal clips were a good design, but it was often necessary to re-bend those clip-on sides so that they were at 90° to the cover itself. I've never had a problem with them falling off when they're installed correctly.The worst covers were those which needed be be glued in place. Nowadays, all of my non-Athearn cars get screwed-on coupler covers...
Bearman,
Not being ugly here but you are obviously not doing the setup correctly. KD's have been around forever and when properly adjusted provide flawless service. They aren't generally open the package, slap them in and go run though. They need to be installed in the coupler boxes correctly and the trip poins often need teaking. Those adjusting pliers are great and make it easy but you have to use them correctly. Use one direction to widen the trip pin curve and the opposite direction to close up or tighten the curve of the pin. Notice the jaws have stepped segments to get different curve radii. It's a trial and error thing and has to be used in conjunction with the couple gauge. Lots of good information from the previous posters.
Take your time and you can do this. It seems harder than it really is. Time will get you up to speed and if you want reliable operation it's vital to have them set perfectly.
The Athearn Blue Box cars are the only ones I've had any issues with once the couplers are set. The lousy clip that retains the couplers in the box can become loose and let the coupler droop. Crummy, cheap way to do couplers. Everyone else used a screw to retain everything.
Yes, some folks cut the trip pin off as it isn't very prototypical looking. I don't like folks sticking the uncoupling tools between my cars as many people don't have good coordination or eyesight and I don't appreciate my cars getting scratched up or knocked over and many operators just don't care about your equipment.
Go back and try to adjust the pins. Take your time and be patient and it will come to you just how much tension to use to get the curves right.
oldline1
bearman Does anyone just snip them off the couplers? I have noticed that a lot of my derailments are because the trip pin bumps up against the ties, especially in a tournout or it interferes with the other trip pin when it is being coupled. I have the Kadee trip pin pliers but it doesnt always work. Any suggestions?
Does anyone just snip them off the couplers? I have noticed that a lot of my derailments are because the trip pin bumps up against the ties, especially in a tournout or it interferes with the other trip pin when it is being coupled. I have the Kadee trip pin pliers but it doesnt always work. Any suggestions?
I just use needle nose pliers and give the trip pins a slight squeeze to bend them up just a little bit. I've been doing that since I was a starving college student and the cost of a special Kadee tool was not in my budget.
Do people cut off their trip pins? Sure, some do. Mainly because they feel the trip pin is unrealistic in appearance.
Bending a trip pin has been a standard part of any kit builders bag of tricks as long as I can remember.
I have a pair of boxcars in which the previous owner did clip off the lower part of the ‘hose’ at a height where the hoses still connected but didn’t overlap a lot. I have never had any problems uncoupling them using the Lionel Strang designed uncoupling tool which grabs the one of the hoses and pulls it to the side to uncouple the cars. I prefer not to cut the hoses on other cars. Instead I use jewelry pliers to bend the hose slightly. I use them just because it is the tool I already own and they work ok. I have tried needle nose pliers but they can be a little to crude of a tool for what is needed. I adjust the couplers before I install them. It makes it easier. I know every coupler needs a bend which is slightly more than the factory bend. The majority of my cars are Athearn blue box kits or old Roundhouse MDC kits.
As others have said, the height of the coupler knuckle needs to be correct first.
I have a test track with a Kadee gauge at each end. One gauge is modified to remove the little shelf for checking the trip wire. I run the car up to this gauge first to check the knuckle height. If that's correct, then I run the car to the other gauge to check the trip wire.
This process eliminates the issue of a trip wire influencing the knuckle height.
Somewhere i think that changed - when I first started using Kadees, even though the coupler head matched up perfectly with the gauge, the pin was often too low and needed adjustment. Also, bulk packs in those days seemed to come with as many knuckle springs loose as were actually on the couplers. More recent ones - I haven't bent a trip pin in ages, and most every coupler in the pack has had the knuckle spring installed.
Agreed, if you get the height right, you seldom have to adjust a trip pin.
A few thoughts on the trip pins:
I was a member of an operations oriented round robin group for 15 years. Personally, I never cared for sticking a skewer in the knuckle.
I much prefer to use a skewer or small, long screwdriver to pull the trip pin to the side. Which can even be done on diaphragm equiped passenger cars or in crowded freight yards, just as easily as using the skewer in the knuckles.
Macro vs micro, what is your modeling style?
I'm a big picture kind of guy, long trains, large layout, 800 freight cars. For me the trip pins stay.
I don't use magnetic uncoupling, but the pins do look like coupled air hoses from the "macro" view.
And as noted, they are useful for manual uncoupling with a "tool".
If I were a "micro" style modeler, I would use Sergents...........
Sheldon