The definition of "free rolling" for us more "seasoned" modelers is dependent on how well you remember the era of pre-Delrin, pre-Lindberg trucks. Before Lindberg it was an entirely different standard of comparison.
I still remember the first Lindberg freight car kit I built (a Santa Fe steel reefer) and compared to what else was around it was amazing in its free rolling abilities; if they were not the first to use Delrin plastic they were among the first. In fact, back when I still used horn hook couplers it was by no means an easy task to back up a switcher and couple on to that Lindberg car because it would roll before the spring on the horn hook coupler would yield.
So you ended up either chasing the car with the locomotive until the car hit a bumper or another car (or your finger), or you learned to slam the loco into the car. Ironically I could use that rolling ability as a crude aproximation of Kadee's delayed action uncoupling. I'd uncouple the Lindberg car on the main and if I was slow about it, I could carefully back that car into a siding and just pull away the engine without touching it. "How'd you do that?" my model railroad buddy would ask. Heh. A more innocent and playful time to be sure.
I am a bit ashamed to admit that when I first got that Lindberg car I'd sort of replicate the old opening of Cody's Office with it: shove it with my finger and see how far it could roll, with me walking ahead of it to switch turnouts and such. Now of course I am too much of an adult to even think of doing that. Plus walking faster than an HO freight car can roll has become a challenge ...
Varney, Mantua, Athearn, Roundhouse, Revell and such other cars came with trucks which were nowhere near as free rolling as Lindberg but we did not regard them as poor rolling; the most popular "after market" truck was Central Valley which rolled beautifully we thought (and looked great) but again, not as well as Lindberg's did. There were really poor rolling trucks out there - the old Red Balls come to mind, and a make of trucks where the sideframes and bolsters were rough and somewhat oversized sand castings. Maybe a fellow geezer can remind me what make that was. Awful stuff, possibly pre WWII.
Athearn switched over to Delrin in the 60s I think, but many LHSs had the older blue box kits still in inventory and the kit on the shelf might have had the older all-metal trucks (most with real springs, but some with that odd shaped rubber piece that was a stand in for springs). They were actually considered reasonably free rolling at the time, but would not be now.
Then I think Mantua/Tyco made the switch to Delrin and even had an MR ad showing how much longer a train their F9 could pull using their new trucks. But again before Lindberg nobody complained that Mantua trucks were not free rolling enough.
Dave Nelson
I'd have to agree in both cases, but I still don't know what grade I should use on a Conformity Test Track.
Beautiful railroad, BTW.
ChuckAllen, TX
Club I belong to uses the 2% grade rule.
doctorwayne This re-built Athearn Blue Box boxcar... ...weighing 7.5oz., runs on Walthers/Proto National B-1 trucks, and was placed at the top of a 2.5% grade in South Cayuga, at a point just a bit below the town's name on the sketch below... The car was released (not pushed), and travelled downhill, across the Speed River... ...into the tunnel leading to Elfrida (not around the peninsula shown in the sketch)... ...and rolled out of the tunnel and into Elfrida (just into the grey area in the sketch) where the track levels out... ...the car continued rolling through Elfrida on level track.... ...and out onto the bridge at Chippawa Creek, which is on a slight downgrade... ...and continued rolling across Indian Line (the road in the background, below), still on a slight downgrade... ...and then out onto the level track on the Maitland River Bridge... ...and thence into.... ...and through... Lowbanks.It then rolled around the curve, into Port Maitland, still on level track... ...past GERN Industries' warehouse... ...then past the bulk loading siloes at GERN... ...and finally came to a stop just short of the lift-out (which was, at the time, lifted-out)... ...at the entry to the room, a distance of approximately 65' from it's starting point. I would consider this to be a fairly free-rolling car. Wayne
This re-built Athearn Blue Box boxcar...
...weighing 7.5oz., runs on Walthers/Proto National B-1 trucks, and was placed at the top of a 2.5% grade in South Cayuga, at a point just a bit below the town's name on the sketch below...
The car was released (not pushed), and travelled downhill, across the Speed River...
...into the tunnel leading to Elfrida (not around the peninsula shown in the sketch)...
...and rolled out of the tunnel and into Elfrida (just into the grey area in the sketch) where the track levels out...
...the car continued rolling through Elfrida on level track....
...and out onto the bridge at Chippawa Creek, which is on a slight downgrade...
...and continued rolling across Indian Line (the road in the background, below), still on a slight downgrade...
...and then out onto the level track on the Maitland River Bridge...
...and thence into....
...and through...
Lowbanks.It then rolled around the curve, into Port Maitland, still on level track...
...past GERN Industries' warehouse...
...then past the bulk loading siloes at GERN...
...and finally came to a stop just short of the lift-out (which was, at the time, lifted-out)...
...at the entry to the room, a distance of approximately 65' from it's starting point.
I would consider this to be a fairly free-rolling car.
Wayne
Wayne that shure some real "free rolling" Is it a Kadee Boxcar? Some great trucks and wheels on that one.
I have noticed that most of better free rolling equipment ttend to be Proto pieces.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
gregcbut i have a car that rolls in spots on my flat layout. I certainly can't see the grade, nor intended there to be one. The problem is when i spot a car at a spur, it will roll off the end of the spur. so while there may be a requirement that cars roll on a specified grade, I think there is such a thing as a car rolling too freely.
That's a problem I have, too.
To my knowledge, I laid this scrapyard spur on a flat and level surface, but it ended up with a minor grade. It was fine until I replaced the old (like 40 years old) plastic wheels with metal ones. When I would spot the cars at the end of the spur (bottom of the picture) they would roll all the way out to the main at the top. You can see the tuft of field grass I put between the ties to hold the cars and keep them from rolling.
I've also got some of the Kadee powerful under-track uncoupling magnets. With very free-rolling cars, I can't use the "delayed" uncoupling feature because the magnets are so strong that they pull the uncoupled cars right back over the magnet as I pull the engine back.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
cefinkjr I'm thinking that, when released on a grade that's x inches long at y% gradient, a "free rolling" car would roll to the bottom of the grade and z inches more on level track beyond the foot of the grade. I checked the NMRA web site and found nothing along these lines. Does anyone have some numbers on this? I'd like to build a Conformity Test Track for our club and it ought to be able to verify that a car is or is not free rolling.
I'm thinking that, when released on a grade that's x inches long at y% gradient, a "free rolling" car would roll to the bottom of the grade and z inches more on level track beyond the foot of the grade.
I checked the NMRA web site and found nothing along these lines. Does anyone have some numbers on this? I'd like to build a Conformity Test Track for our club and it ought to be able to verify that a car is or is not free rolling.
cefinkjrI'm thinking that, when released on a grade that's x inches long at y% gradient, a "free rolling" car would roll to the bottom of the grade and z inches more on level track beyond the foot of the grade.
That's about right..A good free rolling car should be able to do that.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
at the club i belong to, there is a short test track with a grade that a car is expected to roll down. I think it's a 36" piece of flex track on a 1x4 with a extra piece of 1x4 under it on one end (2.1% = 100 * 0.75 / 36).
i have found that the truck tuner can significantly improve trucks.
but i have a car that rolls in spots on my flat layout. I certainly can't see the grade, nor intended there to be one. The problem is when i spot a car at a spur, it will roll off the end of the spur.
so while there may be a requirement that cars roll on a specified grade, I think there is such a thing as a car rolling too freely.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
There are 3 tests that I have heard of.
Roll down 2% grade, some allow a nudge to start the car, other do not. Usually this is a typical minimum.
Roll down 1% grade (or even .5%). This is usually for people who want a really long train.
Place car on flat piece of glass and gently push the car across. The car passes if all wheels roll as opposed to skidding.
Really free rolling cars can be a problem if your layout is not dead level as they may roll when you don't want them to.
Pawul
Our club requirement is that a car roll the length of a 2% grade (about 50").
A previous requirement (which a member solemnly assured us was drawn from the specs of a prominent San Diego club) required said car to roll its own length on a two percent grade.
This is an ex-Athearn Blue Box coach, re-done as a wooden express car. It has the older metal trucks, and weighs 8oz.The car is on a 2.9% grade, and the photo is a two hour and forty-five minute time lapse exposure....
This would not likely be considered a free-rolling car. This re-built Athearn Blue Box boxcar...