richhotrain superbe Rich, Like you when I go to the Doctor's office I want to see his report card not his dipolomas Bob Darn right. Rich
superbe Rich, Like you when I go to the Doctor's office I want to see his report card not his dipolomas Bob
Rich,
Like you when I go to the Doctor's office I want to see his report card not his dipolomas
Bob
Darn right.
Rich
My lowest grade was 74, highest was 89......I did learn very well on how to blow things up......literally!
Frank
Alton Junction
Don't Ever Give Up
zstripe I don't claim to be a Chemist, but had four yrs. of it.
I don't claim to be a Chemist, but had four yrs. of it.
Frank. Thanks for the information. Of course, good ol' oxidation. Metal exposed to oxygen. Can't avoid it. And there is a percentage of brass mixed in with nickle-silver rails. Brass oxidizes rather rapidly, IIRC.
- Douglas
rrebell The crud on your railroad comes mostly from the electrical arcing that happens when power goes to the wheels from the rails, period. This was discovered by a chemist. The real reason to use metal wheels on rolling stock is because metal wheels are easier to clean and don't tend to build up crud as fast (more chemistry).
The crud on your railroad comes mostly from the electrical arcing that happens when power goes to the wheels from the rails, period. This was discovered by a chemist. The real reason to use metal wheels on rolling stock is because metal wheels are easier to clean and don't tend to build up crud as fast (more chemistry).
I also said this before........as a matter of fact...It was You Rrebell. Take a brand new piece of track, flex, sectional what have you...never been on any layout before and take a clean cloth with a little 90% alcohol on it and rub on the rails......black will come off, plain and simple...oxidation......that with the dust, dander whatever mixed together from the wheels rolling in it causes the crud. The arcing Your speaking off came from the old type wheels rolling on steel track that came in American Flyer/Lionel train sets of old........been There!
Polished rails heads with a fine grade polish will leave a shiny protectant on the raills heads which will slow down the oxidation process.....that's why gleaming works. I for one don't want to take the time to go through all that. But I do have some sections that I polished and it works but you still have the dust factor.
My eldest Son who is 49 is a Metallurgist, buyer and seller of precious metals, (which I never thought He would become) has taught Me a lot more than I ever thought about when it comes to metals.
https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of-oxidation-in-chemistry-605456
Take Care!
CRC 2-26 on a piece of cotton rag is an excellent wheel-crud remover. Home Depot sells it in the electrical department.
Of course some things make the indoor air pollution problem worse, like smoking, burning candles, cooking, anything we spray into the air like air freshener or hairspray, paint, etc. Another thing I’ve noticed is that when you tear toilet paper or paper towels from the roll that tiny fibers of paper get launched into the air. And don’t forget smog and dust from outside finding it’s way into your room. Everything in the air eventually settles and it settles on your track and then your wheels roll over it and it starts to build up. Besides just cleaning your track you need to clean the dust off of your entire layout. Every time a car derails some of that dust gets on your wheels, and then you stick your dirty wheels right back onto the track and spread it around. Old fashion computers required a ‘clean room’ which had filters on all of the vents and required people to be completely clean before entering to cut down on the dust. The best way to get the crud off of your wheels if it is stuck on big time is to remove the wheels and wash them with alcohol. Let the alcohol soak into the crud and soften it up. Eventually you can wipe it off with a paper towel or napkin.
Most of us have some scrap lengths of scale dimensional lumber. Properly cut and trimmed ends of those small bits do a pretty good job of lifting the grey crud off your drivers and other axles. Works for me, anyway. Wood won't wear away the metal cintering on wheels that have it, but it does scrub away the putty.
zstripe All people have eye lashes and nose hair...ever wonder why? Take Care! Frank
All people have eye lashes and nose hair...ever wonder why?
KemacPrr One of the operators was a chemist at Du Pont so he took some samples of the wheel crud we removed to see what it was. This railroad ran on dc and had all metal wheels. When the results of the test came back it was interesting. There was some oil and grease some pollen and some scenery materials but mostly dust which was mostly composed of dead human skin !!!
One of the operators was a chemist at Du Pont so he took some samples of the wheel crud we removed to see what it was. This railroad ran on dc and had all metal wheels. When the results of the test came back it was interesting. There was some oil and grease some pollen and some scenery materials but mostly dust which was mostly composed of dead human skin !!!
Well then there's your solution - stop inviting those dead humans (the ultimate armchair modelers) to your operating sessions ...
I seem to recall MR years ago sent wheel crud to a chemistry lab for a similar analysis. It stands to reason that a certain amount of lubricant would be thrown off by the gears on our trains. That would also mix with dust, including saw dust, and other stuff.
Back when I had plastic wheels and brass track, I noticed that the wheel crud on the wheels (which sometimes was actually thick enough to make the flange disappear and cause derailments) had a vague brassy coloration to it. I assumed from that that wear on the track, including the plastic frogs on snap track, likely played some slight role (recall also back then that Cassadio track, of which I had some, colored their plastic frogs brass color so that they matched the rails).
I suppose a certain amount of static electricity is in the air as well, and some slight electric current might be passing through what are otherwise regarded as insulating material.
Dave Nelson
Remove the crut with a scalple or the tip or edge of a screwdeiver.
If you had prototype brakes on your train, the brakes would clean the wheels.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
This is pure conjecture on my part. My layout is over 10 years old and the track has never been cleaned.
Over the years I have accumulated with good intentions of cleaning a CMX car, A Centerline track cleaning car as well a Bachmann freight car with a hanging pad.
IMO the track crud problem is caused by the dustiness of the room and how much you run your trains. My train room happens to be the most dust free room in the house. The flat surfaces such as roofs and the tops of freight cars show little dust. Also, I run the trains very little as I am more interested in scenery.
I just bought a new locomotive and decided before I put it on the rails I would clean the track. I tried the CMX at firs with a Bachman car with a hanging pad behind it to pick up the crud left by the CMX. My 4-axel diesel couldn’t the move the CMX. Instead of lashing up a double header I tried pushing the Bachmann back and forth several feet. The pad had two black streaks and I thought how much more can that pad clean or will it just push the dirt around the track.
My wife uses swifters to dust our furniture and when one gets dirty she uses a new one. Why wouldn’t this apply to cleaning track? I’m going to give Woodland Scenics Track Cleaning Kit a try. It has the “whole 9 yards” including replacement pads. After that I’ll run a car with the hanging pad in each freight to help keep the track clean.
gdelmoroMany locomotives have traction tires these days. I wonder if they contribute? How would you clean them anyhow?
That topic also was just recently discussed. You'll have to search the community, as it wasn't that long ago.
Mike.
My You Tube
It happens on both metal and plastic wheels to the same degree. Wheel material composition is not a factor.
The number one source for dirt being placed on the track is dirty wheels on other cars, so simply cleaning the track doesn't work.
Ultimately, yes, I think the use of liquids exacerbates the problems since the crud needs to stick to something. However, skin flakes and other dust carry their own oils so a completely dry track would still be susceptable to the problem.
My plan would be to clean tracks AND ALL WHEELS ON EVERY CAR with alcohol and let dry. Run dry-based track cleaning programs frequently.
Many locomotives have traction tires these days.
I wonder if they contribute? How would you clean them anyhow?
Gary
Yep, the good ole' wheel crud.
Although this topic comes around every once and while, I do remember during one of it's resurrections, the the ingredients of this crud was analized, and a long and lengthy explaination and discussion followed.
The main ingredients were just as Ken mentions in his post.
richhotrainOne thing that I wonder about is the constant interaction of the humidified air with landscaping materials including ground cover and ballast, not to mention the glue mixture that holds it all in place. In my case, I use a glue mix composed of water and matte medium. Could all of this contribute to the black crud problem? Rich
Mad Frank...... Also said this before......whatever is in the air We breathe will eventually find it's way onto the layout. How many people have their heat and air ducts cleaned.....every yr.? Every three yrs.? Never is the most truthful answer. Cold air returns suck some of it in...not all......heat blows it back out. I have,(but never use anymore) a Bell & Howell super8 -8 movie camera, that has a 650watt flood light attachment that connects to the top of the camera....with lights off in room and turn flood light on......You can see the dust,dirt you name it, articles floating around in the air We breathe, every single day.......why do You think the Japanese in Tokyo wear dust masks.....not only because of the smog, but what the smog has in it. Also said this before......the only way to stop it from landing on the layout, is to have it in a bio/oxygen free room. They have units for the furnace that control a lot of it....but it's still there....it's all around us in the air We breathe.
Tophias Yesterday I was fiddling with a car looking at the couplers and noticed the wheels. Wow, it had a huge buildup of a black crud. And actually was 2 cars. i cleaned the crud by first soaking the wheel sets in alcohol and then tried wiping off with a paper towel. Modt of it would not wipe off. I ended up having to scrape it off with an Xacto blade. It seemed like a plastic compound. It came off off like shaved chocolate. So my questions are: Do you all have the same conditions? What exactly is this build up? How do you prevent this build up!
Yesterday I was fiddling with a car looking at the couplers and noticed the wheels. Wow, it had a huge buildup of a black crud. And actually was 2 cars. i cleaned the crud by first soaking the wheel sets in alcohol and then tried wiping off with a paper towel. Modt of it would not wipe off. I ended up having to scrape it off with an Xacto blade. It seemed like a plastic compound. It came off off like shaved chocolate. So my questions are: Do you all have the same conditions? What exactly is this build up? How do you prevent this build up!
I have never figured out what it is, and it is interesting to read the chemist's analysis of the composition of the crud.
One of the replies warned against using any form of liquid to clean the rails. That would only seem to leave the Bright Boy eraser as an alternative. I use denatured alcohol, a liquid, but the alcohol quickly evaporates, so I find it hard to believe that the use of liquids exacerbates the problem.
Frank is mad because too few listen to his advice to use the CMX track cleaning car. I use the CMX track cleaning car on occasion, but maybe Frank is right. Maybe you have to use it more often. Daily? Weekly? Monthly?
I use the blade of a small hobby screwdriver to remove the crud build up on the metal wheels on all my locomotives and rolling stock. I use only metal wheels, and I long ago replaced all of the plastic wheels with metal wheels on all of my locos and rolling stock. I used to blame the plastic wheels for the crud, but I haven't had any plastic wheels on my layout for years, and I still get the build up of crud.
In the past, some have blamed "arcing" for the crud. I cannot rule that out, but how much "arcing" occurs on a layout?
My layout is in a temperature and humidity controlled basement (poured concrete walls and floors). The foundation walls are painted with Drylok, a moisture preventing membrane. The concrete floors are sealed. So, I tend to blame what that chemist found - - dust, dirt, dander, skin oil, you name it.
One thing that I wonder about is the constant interaction of the humidified air with landscaping materials including ground cover and ballast, not to mention the glue mixture that holds it all in place. In my case, I use a glue mix composed of water and matte medium. Could all of this contribute to the black crud problem?
I have been saying this for awhile now and it appears that some listen, some don't...I use a CMX track cleaning car to clean My track and I push it rather than pull it or stick it somewhere in the train I'm pulling.....reason being.....the track cleaning car goes through the dust, dirt, dander before any engines or rolling stock does.......so My wheels are cleaner. 80 percent of My rolling stock have plastic wheels. I use lacquer thinner in the machine to clean it......what CMX recommends.......
Wheel crud, track crud...the bane of this hobby.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Many years ago I was operating on a layout that ran every Sunday night. On Wednesday's we would shop cars checking couplers and cleaning wheels. One of the operators was a chemist at Du Pont so he took some samples of the wheel crud we removed to see what it was. This railroad ran on dc and had all metal wheels. When the results of the test came back it was interesting. There was some oil and grease some pollen and some scenery materials but mostly dust which was mostly composed of dead human skin !!! The use of metal wheels will not eliminate the need to clean rolling wheels. ------ Ken
Well, I don't know what to say, except that crud does build up on track, and wheels, it's not always noticed, nor does it suddenly appear, and if your track is "shinny" as you say, and your locos run great, I guess I won't be worried about it.
From what you describe, it doesn't seem to interupt any operations, or running quality, so.... clean your rolling stock wheels, as you wish, and have fun.
Maybe others that have experienced what you are, will chime in.
EDIT: And what Mark says.
What do you clean your track with ? Do you EVER put ANY kind of liquid on your rails ? If you do, that's where it comes from.
I NEVER put a liquid of any kind on my rails. Some of my cars (all have metal wheels) have been in service for well over 15 years and not a speck of crud on any of them.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Mike, I can not see any build up or color on my track. Just shinny.
Well, I'am not a chemist, or DNA expert, but I guess maybe you need to pay more attention to whats going on with your track, and check the wheels on your rolling stock.
You said ALL of your rolling stock has metel wheels, so I guess you can rule out any plastic wheels, even though there are many on here that say they have no problems with the plastic wheel sets, and they are probably right, as they should know, but, considering all that is in the atmosphere, and the location of your layout, don't be so surprised that the build up is there.
The black stuff is easy to see, on your track, and wheels. Maybe check your locos. I get it, not in any extreme sense, but it does collect.
my layout is 15-20 years young. I clean the track as necessay. All rolling stock has either Proto2K or Intermoubtain metal wheels. Yesterday I was fiddling with a car looking at the couplers and noticed the wheels. Wow, it had a huge buildup of a black crud. And actually was 2 cars. i cleaned the crud by first soaking the wheel sets in alcohol and then tried wiping off with a paper towel. Modt of it would not wipe off. I ended up having to scrape it off with an Xacto blade. It seemed like a plastic compound. It came off off like shaved chocolate. So my questions are: Do you all have the same conditions? What exactly is this build up? How do you prevent this build up! And, like I said, I clean as necessary, meaning, when my DCC engines run irradically. Normally my DCC engines run without hesitation.