Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Locos going only right-to-left...no reverse

13068 views
70 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:42 PM

AJ -

I can't seem to be able to view your video. I get "Sorry, no videos."

However, based on what you just said, I see a couple of issues.

Both of your loco's have the same issue, so it is not a locomotive issue. This is helpful, as now we won't be wasting time checking the loco.

You also mentioned a second problem, that of the locomotives slowing farther from the power pack. You also have a current drop issue, however, I say also as this will not (most times) cause your other issue, of only working in one direction.

Really double check your wiring connections on your power pack. Make sure that both wires are connected, to the correct terminals. 

If you have a multimeter, it might be worthwhile to check your DC volt reading, with no loco on the track, on both direction settings.

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:29 PM

edit never mind, there wouldn't be a share button if it were a private video.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 20 posts
Posted by Ajhall on Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:37 PM

Tommorrow when I go down cellar again, I'll redo the wires (does it matter which DC screw the wires are attached to? Their polarity isn't noted.), and do a voltage test. No one will ever accuse me of being an electrician, and I treat electricity with the utmost respect -- not to say trepidation. I have a medical condition that messes with my fine motor skills, so detail things like twisting and attaching wires is something I do slowly. 

I'm going to try re-uploading the video. 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Thursday, March 8, 2018 8:57 PM

AJ -

It matters, but it doesn't matter, which wire goes to which terminal.

One rail, goes to one of the variable DC terminals, the other rail goes to the other variable DC terminal.

Make sure that the wires do not touch each other, or any other terminals. (Especially the accessories terminals.) 

If the wires are hooked up correctly, at full throttle you will get somewhere close to 15V DC, on both direction settings. Your multimeter should say +15 V one way, and -15 V the other way. (This is correct.) 

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:31 PM

Ajhall
Which leads to loco #2, which I was unable to video when I ran the test on it. It's an old Athearn I bought on eBay, another GP9 in the Boston & Maine paint scheme. I know it's DC only. It runs fine, I've never had trouble with it. I got exactly the same results with it that I did with the Bachmann on the video.

That blows my decoder theory out of the water.

Your slowing at the far end of the layout is probably a function of poor conductivity between the rail joiners.  We can tell you how to fix that later, the current problem is more pressing.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:52 PM

sounds like an insolated joiner missing with that slowing away from the pack, seen that before, just enough power going through things to muck it up but not enough to trip the breaker.

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 20 posts
Posted by Ajhall on Friday, March 9, 2018 5:13 AM

A quick note: The YouTube link should be fixed now. Again, the url is https://youtu.be/Tn2oueQro1c 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 9, 2018 5:33 AM

Ajhall

A quick note: The YouTube link should be fixed now. Again, the url is https://youtu.be/Tn2oueQro1c  

After watching that video a few times, I am convinced that something is wrong with the directional switch on the power pack. 

I have several of the MRC Railpower 1370s to power signals and Tortoises on my DCC layout.  They are pretty darn reliable and rugged. But, that doesn't mean that something cannot be sticking on the directional slide switch.  Mess with it, jiggle it back and forth, and see if that helps.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 9, 2018 7:05 AM

The OP said in his first post that he also has an Athearn power pack.  Maybe try that.

Mike.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 9, 2018 7:20 AM

 In the video, does it stop there by itself or are you turning the speed control off?

Even if the direction switch was defective, if it was not touched but the loco turned around, it should run. 

It also looks like there may be a reverse loop in that layout - how is that being handled?

Before you do anything else, take some spare sections of track and hook the power pack to them, and see if the loco runs there in both directions. If it works fine that way, then the problem is in how the rest of the layout is wired.

                                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 9, 2018 7:49 AM

rrinker
Before you do anything else, take some spare sections of track and hook the power pack to them, and see if the loco runs there in both directions. If it works fine that way, then the problem is in how the rest of the layout is wired.

Best advice yet, after stopping the video a bunch of times, and looking at the track layout.  And check out the hammer laying on the track, right at the beginning.

Mike.

 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 7:54 AM

I'd go simple. Put the engine on a piece of track. Connect two wires to the "DC Variable" output of one power pack. With your hands, touch one wire to one rail and the other wire to the other rail with the power on say half way. If the engine moves, reverse the wires (NOT the power pack) that you're holding on the track. If the engine moves the opposite way now, then the engine is fine. Then try the same thing after moving the reverse switch to the other setting. If the engine goes forward and then back, then the problem is the wiring on your layout.

Stix
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:07 AM

The track over the small bridge caught my eye too.  It disappears behind a can of ground foam, but the angle looks to be too great to continue on to be a reversing loop.

Hammers on the track are bad form, but it's probably not spanning both rails or that would be a massive short.

You don't need all that much extra track to do the test suggested,  one piece is enough to see if it goes forward and backward, full throttle isn't necessary. Stopping it on a turnout isn't the best place to demonstrate the problem because turnouts can introduce other issues, if you are stopping on an unpowered frog, for instance.

 We aren't here to bust your chops but the track on the left side of the layout is danger close to the edge.
 
At some point you may find it useful to post pictures, there is a sticky thread at the top of this forum that tells you how to do that.  You cannot use the clipboard function or ways that might work in other forums.
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:43 AM

I'd like to see a picture of the side of the power pack where the wires are hooked up. If you go back to my post of yesterday (March 8) afternoon, I still think it's possible you've hooked up one wire to the DC Variable and the other to the DC 12V Accessory outlet. If you've connected one wire the DC Variable plus outlet, and the other to the 12V Accessory (constant) negative outlet, that should produce exactly what you're finding - engines run in one direction, but not the other direction.

Stix
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sebring FL
  • 842 posts
Posted by floridaflyer on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:47 AM

Agree with stix, set up a short track separate from your layout, that eliminates all the wiring and track on the layout from the problem. Do as stix suggests as far as wiring the short section and see what happens. 

  • Member since
    November 2017
  • 153 posts
Posted by HOmainline on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:47 AM

Both of the loco's what? 

Kerry

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 9, 2018 9:19 AM

If stranded wire was used, one little strand could touch the wrong post (never understood why they didn't separate the posts more on transformers). But I would go with the hammer theory.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:26 AM

 Nah, it's not hammertime yet. That would just short the whole thing. But the idea that one of the wires is on the fixed DC and one is on the variable DC - that would indeed render the direction switch inoperable. But still fails to get past the other symptom that physically turning the loco around without touching the direction switch also causes it to not move. It should move in the same physical direction as before, by the loco F and R designation, in reverse. That's tliek making a 3 unit consist, if you put 2 with the short hood front and the trailing unit with the short hood facing back, all 3 will move the same direction on DC (assuming they are all wired the same).  So as shown in the video - the loco will move towards the camera. If the loco is picked up and turned 180 degrees, it should still run towards the camera if the direction switch is left untouched.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2002
  • From: Jersey City
  • 1,925 posts
Posted by steemtrayn on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:51 AM

AJ,

Are there any other model railroaders nearby that could come over and help in person? Where do you live (generally)? Maybe someone on this board is close enough to help.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 9, 2018 11:14 AM

Like I said, I have had shorts that were not enough to flip the breaker but enough to wreck havok.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 11:25 AM

rrebell

Like I said, I have had shorts that were not enough to flip the breaker but enough to wreck havok.

 
That's true. I had a problem burning out a couple of Digitrax AR-1 auto reversers in a reverse loop that had worked fine for quite a while. Eventually tracked down the problem was that when adding some feeders to the reverse loop, one wire got connected to the mainline power rather than the reverse loop connection. It wasn't quite enough of an issue to trip the circuit breaker (and was a bigger issue going one way through the reverse loop than the other) but did a job on the auto reversers.
Stix
  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 20 posts
Posted by Ajhall on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:43 PM

OK, a few things related to the various posts. There is no reverse loop -- the track curves in the middle of the layout about 270 degrees, but ends at a bumper stop. The long straight stretch over the bridge might indeed be problematic -- I've debated replacing it with a short access road and a simple bridge like the kind I'd encounter in logging country on a fishing trip. That's neither here nor there, as I doubt it has anything to do with the problem.

Unfortunately, I do not know anybody in the area who also does model rr'ing. I think there's a club in the area, but it's only a rumor. I live in Maine, so things are pretty spread out. The nearest hobby shop is about 50 miles away, and the next after that 100+ The one within a reasonable distance is pretty much exclusively devoted to RC.

Today, I redid the wiring at the power pack trying all possible combinations: bupkiss. Then I did the multi-meter test, and lo, and behold, I think the problem is solved. When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack. I've had that for about 3 years, but last year circumstances forced me to put everything aside for what turned out to be about a year. I hadn't used it in all that time. I bought an Athearn from Train Sets Only a couple of weeks ago in what I intended as an upgrade, so I dug it out. Amazingly, right out of the box it failed -- it won't even turn on! So it goes back, and I'll get another.

Any suggestions on a good one for ~$50?

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:21 PM

Since you already have a DCC/Sound engine, I'd suggest looking at a starter DCC system. DCC wiring is actually quite a bit simpler than DC, you don't have to divide the track into numerous separate 'blocks' to run more than one engine at a time. Perhaps a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Twin System. Each only costs about the same as two good MRC DC power packs.

BTW...you can use a double-pole/double-throw toggle switch connected between the power pack with the faulty reverse switch and the track and use it to reverse the power going to the track. Not hard to set up and only costs a few bucks.

Stix
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:37 AM

Ajhall

Today, I redid the wiring at the power pack trying all possible combinations: bupkiss. Then I did the multi-meter test, and lo, and behold, I think the problem is solved. When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack.

Any suggestions on a good one for ~$50? 

I have a number of MRC Railpower 1370s around my layout to power signals and Tortoises. If, indeed, your power pack has a faulty directional switch, I would recommend replacing it with another 1370. These power packs are highly reliable and durable in my experience.

The 1370 can be purchased new for around $30 to $35.

Meanwhile, you ought to contact MRC and ask if the damaged 1370 can be repaired. Not worth sending it in to MRC, but tech support can tell you if it is something that you can repair yourself, if you are so inclined.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 10, 2018 6:47 AM

He may be able to get that switch to work by pressing down on it while sliding it back and forth a number of times. All it is is a DPDT slide switch.......replacing it is not hard at all, once you get the security screws off to get inside. I said that in My first post on page one, to give that a try. They do oxidize when not used for long periods.......been there done that!

I have a 70's era MRC TechII 1500 that I only use for testing purposes, that use to do that......I just cleaned the slide contacts with CRC 2-26 and it always works...I added a DC analog meter to the top of it:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:50 AM

Ajhall
When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack.

Anything mechanical can die, but my MRC 2500 must be 30+ years old, so they make good stuff.  Used ones sell on ebay for $20 to $36

I thought I understood one of the problems to be that if you physically turned the loco 180 degrees, did not touch the reversing switch, the loco would not run.  If that is still the case, part of the problem is unsolved.

DCC control costs more, it just does.  For someone on a fixed income, it may be out of reach.  One of our regulars just mentioned he has 600 freight cars and track radius the size of the Daytona speedway.  He is absolutely happy with DC, so it's not a must have.

We hang out in the thread Jeffrey's Trackside Diner and discuss all sorts of off topic things.  There are a couple guys in Canada, and one in the Finger Lakes, but I can't think of anyone in Maine, offhand.  Anyway you are welcome to visit us in the diner anytime.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Ontario
  • 140 posts
Posted by dieselsmoke on Saturday, March 10, 2018 9:33 AM

AJ. Just to be clear, you do have the wires hooked to the two terminals on the left. The two on the right are for accessories. This is looking at the terminals straight on.

Jim

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 20 posts
Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:18 PM

I'd love more info on basic DCC (money is an issue), something I've avoided as seemingly too expensive and difficult to learn. I'll look into the two you've suggested, and any other learning material you can suggest.

Ditto double pole/double-throw switch -- if it doesn't involve taking things apart and/or soldering (I truly cannot solder because a medical condition makes my hands tremor too much.) I'd love to give it a try before I spend any more money on a new pack. I may not be the most dexterous person going, but I'm not afraid to attempt doing things outside of my comfort zone. I'm still VERY early in the learning curve (isn't that half the fun of model rr'ing, the opportunity to learn new skills with a little -- or a lot -- education in history?)

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 20 posts
Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:19 PM

wjstix

Since you already have a DCC/Sound engine, I'd suggest looking at a starter DCC system. DCC wiring is actually quite a bit simpler than DC, you don't have to divide the track into numerous separate 'blocks' to run more than one engine at a time. Perhaps a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Twin System. Each only costs about the same as two good MRC DC power packs.

BTW...you can use a double-pole/double-throw toggle switch connected between the power pack with the faulty reverse switch and the track and use it to reverse the power going to the track. Not hard to set up and only costs a few bucks.

 

I'd love more info on basic DCC (money is an issue), something I've avoided as seemingly too expensive and difficult to learn. I'll look into the two you've suggested, and any other learning material you can suggest.

Ditto double pole/double-throw switch -- if it doesn't involve taking things apart and/or soldering (I truly cannot solder because a medical condition makes my hands tremor too much.) I'd love to give it a try before I spend any more money on a new pack. I may not be the most dexterous person going, but I'm not afraid to attempt doing things outside of my comfort zone. I'm still VERY early in the learning curve (isn't that half the fun of model rr'ing, the opportunity to learn new skills with a little -- or a lot -- education in history?)

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:29 PM

Hi AJ, try what Frank mentioned, push down on the switch and work it back and forth, if it has some corrosion on it, it should get rid of it enough to make contact again.

Let us know if that works.

Both power packs, switch not working.  That is rare.  I guess it all depends on the enviroment of where they were kept.

Mike.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!