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Locos going only right-to-left...no reverse

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 12, 2018 4:53 PM

Maybe too late since you have all your track in place, but for easy construction I'd have suggested using something like Kato Unitrack - plug and play wiring, lot better conductivity in the "click track" than using sectional track.

Stix
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Posted by Medina1128 on Sunday, March 11, 2018 8:16 AM

zstripe

He may be able to get that switch to work by pressing down on it while sliding it back and forth a number of times. All it is is a DPDT slide switch.......replacing it is not hard at all, once you get the security screws off to get inside. I said that in My first post on page one, to give that a try. They do oxidize when not used for long periods.......been there done that!

I have a 70's era MRC TechII 1500 that I only use for testing purposes, that use to do that......I just cleaned the slide contacts with CRC 2-26 and it always works...I added a DC analog meter to the top of it:

 

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

 I second Frank's suggestion and solution. Make sure you disconnect the power pack from the outlet before spraying and give it a good 5 minutes or so to evaporate. I had the same issue with an MRC 260.

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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, March 10, 2018 5:32 PM

Just in case. I have four of the meters. Easy to misplace.

Some years ago I bought spare fuses from Radio Shack. Easy to replace. I think they protect the Amps scale.

Nice deal is they measure 13.6 VAC on my NCE Power Cab which has proved usefull in trouble shootiing at home and the club layout with NCE Power Pro.

http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm

http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, March 10, 2018 5:26 PM

DCC is more demanding than DC.  The rule of thumb, for the obsessive, is a feeder to a solder connection to every piece of track. One of our electrical gurus solders feeder to every joiner.   Some people run bigger layouts than yours with one set of DC feeders.

The rail joiners are the weak point in transmitting electricity.  Paint the track, and add some glue and water for the ballast and that interferes  with the conductivity.  You don't need a feeder to every piece of track for DC. 

If your condition prohibits you from soldering at all, maybe you could seek help from your church, neighbor, nephew or a local boy scout troop.  Soldering or a modest style DC layout is not a huge job time-wise. A couple evenings should do it.

You don't want to solder all the rail joiners or the track will buckle with expansion/contraction of the benchwork.

 

 
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 10, 2018 5:17 PM

AJ, great!  Maybe try that on your athearn.

And as Overmod and Rich mention, learn about bus wires and feeders to get power distributed around your lay out.

Old timers... Laugh  I have one in every tool box.  I use them working on the electrical systems of the old garden tractors I work on, along with trailer light trouble shooting, etc.

Those, and the multimeter, great things to have.

By the way, way to go Frank! Thumbs Up

Mike.

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:55 PM

richg1998
I remember old timers using a device that looks like an ice pick with a light bulb in the clear plastic handle and an aligator clip on a wire troubleshooting car electrical quite well. That device is still sold in auto part stores Rich

You can get one at Walmart:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Circuit-Tester-6-12-Volt-48-Leads/29723354?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227019702366&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=51811030871&wl4=aud-310687322322:pla-83212398551&wl5=9021618&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=29723354&wl13=&veh=sem

 

Still have the one I used in the 50's...... when early cars still had 6volt systems

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:46 PM

This is going to be a little tough to do without soldering. Good soldering is a learned art. I have been doing it since 1953.

Also, you will need a load on the far end to determoine if there is any "voltage drop" anywhere. No load, you will never see a voltage drop unless there is a complete open somewhere.

Knowing how to use a voltmeter will be a big help also. A cheap DC voltmeter on the 20 volt DC scale will be a big help. Set the pack to maybe 12 volts with an auto light connected to the track for a load and probe along the track with the meter if you doubt.

We have done this at our club a couple times in the past when we use to run DC.

I remember old timers using a device that looks like an ice pick with a light bulb in the clear plastic handle and an aligator clip on a wire troubleshooting car electrical quite well. That device is still sold in auto part stores

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:34 PM

Ajhall
A final question on something touched on earlier. Is there anything I can do about the drop-off in power at the far-reaches of the layout? I can see problems ahead when pulling a load.

Search the forums for the subject of 'feeders'.  When you have read the past wisdom you'll have a very good idea of how to proceed and what questions to ask to get the best 'bang for the buck' out of the hivemind.

The basic principle is to run large conductors with very low resistance 'under' each line of track, and then connect each separate piece of rail separated by joints to them with a reasonably low-resistance wire connection.  This avoids any problem with joint integrity other than mechanical and cures problems with voltage drop.  

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Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:17 PM

SUCCESS! 

I tried pressing down on the directional switch while moving it back and forth as suggested. Much to my surprise, it worked! Forward and reverse work fine. I let the locos run for a good 15 minutes. Even before this, I started building a storage box for my locos and rolling stock. Hopefully, it'll give better protection against the damp.

Lessons learned:

  • You guys are awesome! I'm amazed at the sheer volume of help I was offered. When I read thru the whole thread, there is a ton of invaluable stuff in the various replies. Thank you, all of you. I'm glad to be involved with MR Forum.
  • Don't leave hammers laying on the track
  • Check the connections! even the ones you can't see.
  • It sure would help if I only knew more about electricity/electronics, subjects I've always avoided because of the math involved.
  • Just because the first couple of things don't work doesn't mean give up.
  • I don't even know what I don't know when it comes to model rr'ing.

Now it's on to wiring the switches, which should be a real joy.

A final question on something touched on earlier. Is there anything I can do about the drop-off in power at the far-reaches of the layout? I can see problems ahead when pulling a load.

Again, thank you everyone for taking the time to help this novice learn a few troubleshooting skills and a little bit more about the challenges I'll be facing.

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Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:35 PM

I'll give moving the switch a try and post an update. All of my stuff is in a cellar. While it's dry, it does tend to be more damp than the rest of the house, so corrosion is a distinct possibility.

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Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:32 PM

BigDaddy
Thank you very much for your kind invitation. I'll take you up on it. It would be nice to meet someone from Maine with a similar interest in the Maine Central and Bangor and Aroostook lines of the late 60's/early 70's and compare notes. I'm not trying to recreate any specific place or industry -- beyond a generic "wood products" set-up -- but the history of the lines fascinates me. I hope I can learn from you folks!

BTW, one of the problems was (is?) the loco not running when flipped around. I'll retest that when I'm down there.

 

 
Ajhall
When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack.

 

Anything mechanical can die, but my MRC 2500 must be 30+ years old, so they make good stuff.  Used ones sell on ebay for $20 to $36

I thought I understood one of the problems to be that if you physically turned the loco 180 degrees, did not touch the reversing switch, the loco would not run.  If that is still the case, part of the problem is unsolved.

DCC control costs more, it just does.  For someone on a fixed income, it may be out of reach.  One of our regulars just mentioned he has 600 freight cars and track radius the size of the Daytona speedway.  He is absolutely happy with DC, so it's not a must have.

We hang out in the thread Jeffrey's Trackside Diner and discuss all sorts of off topic things.  There are a couple guys in Canada, and one in the Finger Lakes, but I can't think of anyone in Maine, offhand.  Anyway you are welcome to visit us in the diner anytime.

 
 

Thank you very much for your kind invitation. I'll take you up on it. It would be nice to meet someone from Maine with a similar interest in the Maine Central and Bangor and Aroostook lines of the late 60's/early 70's and compare notes. I'm not trying to recreate any specific place or industry -- beyond a generic "wood products" set-up -- but the history of the lines fascinates me. I hope I can learn from you folks!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:29 PM

Hi AJ, try what Frank mentioned, push down on the switch and work it back and forth, if it has some corrosion on it, it should get rid of it enough to make contact again.

Let us know if that works.

Both power packs, switch not working.  That is rare.  I guess it all depends on the enviroment of where they were kept.

Mike.

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Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:19 PM

wjstix

Since you already have a DCC/Sound engine, I'd suggest looking at a starter DCC system. DCC wiring is actually quite a bit simpler than DC, you don't have to divide the track into numerous separate 'blocks' to run more than one engine at a time. Perhaps a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Twin System. Each only costs about the same as two good MRC DC power packs.

BTW...you can use a double-pole/double-throw toggle switch connected between the power pack with the faulty reverse switch and the track and use it to reverse the power going to the track. Not hard to set up and only costs a few bucks.

 

I'd love more info on basic DCC (money is an issue), something I've avoided as seemingly too expensive and difficult to learn. I'll look into the two you've suggested, and any other learning material you can suggest.

Ditto double pole/double-throw switch -- if it doesn't involve taking things apart and/or soldering (I truly cannot solder because a medical condition makes my hands tremor too much.) I'd love to give it a try before I spend any more money on a new pack. I may not be the most dexterous person going, but I'm not afraid to attempt doing things outside of my comfort zone. I'm still VERY early in the learning curve (isn't that half the fun of model rr'ing, the opportunity to learn new skills with a little -- or a lot -- education in history?)

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Posted by Ajhall on Saturday, March 10, 2018 2:18 PM

I'd love more info on basic DCC (money is an issue), something I've avoided as seemingly too expensive and difficult to learn. I'll look into the two you've suggested, and any other learning material you can suggest.

Ditto double pole/double-throw switch -- if it doesn't involve taking things apart and/or soldering (I truly cannot solder because a medical condition makes my hands tremor too much.) I'd love to give it a try before I spend any more money on a new pack. I may not be the most dexterous person going, but I'm not afraid to attempt doing things outside of my comfort zone. I'm still VERY early in the learning curve (isn't that half the fun of model rr'ing, the opportunity to learn new skills with a little -- or a lot -- education in history?)

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Posted by dieselsmoke on Saturday, March 10, 2018 9:33 AM

AJ. Just to be clear, you do have the wires hooked to the two terminals on the left. The two on the right are for accessories. This is looking at the terminals straight on.

Jim

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:50 AM

Ajhall
When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack.

Anything mechanical can die, but my MRC 2500 must be 30+ years old, so they make good stuff.  Used ones sell on ebay for $20 to $36

I thought I understood one of the problems to be that if you physically turned the loco 180 degrees, did not touch the reversing switch, the loco would not run.  If that is still the case, part of the problem is unsolved.

DCC control costs more, it just does.  For someone on a fixed income, it may be out of reach.  One of our regulars just mentioned he has 600 freight cars and track radius the size of the Daytona speedway.  He is absolutely happy with DC, so it's not a must have.

We hang out in the thread Jeffrey's Trackside Diner and discuss all sorts of off topic things.  There are a couple guys in Canada, and one in the Finger Lakes, but I can't think of anyone in Maine, offhand.  Anyway you are welcome to visit us in the diner anytime.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 10, 2018 6:47 AM

He may be able to get that switch to work by pressing down on it while sliding it back and forth a number of times. All it is is a DPDT slide switch.......replacing it is not hard at all, once you get the security screws off to get inside. I said that in My first post on page one, to give that a try. They do oxidize when not used for long periods.......been there done that!

I have a 70's era MRC TechII 1500 that I only use for testing purposes, that use to do that......I just cleaned the slide contacts with CRC 2-26 and it always works...I added a DC analog meter to the top of it:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:37 AM

Ajhall

Today, I redid the wiring at the power pack trying all possible combinations: bupkiss. Then I did the multi-meter test, and lo, and behold, I think the problem is solved. When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack.

Any suggestions on a good one for ~$50? 

I have a number of MRC Railpower 1370s around my layout to power signals and Tortoises. If, indeed, your power pack has a faulty directional switch, I would recommend replacing it with another 1370. These power packs are highly reliable and durable in my experience.

The 1370 can be purchased new for around $30 to $35.

Meanwhile, you ought to contact MRC and ask if the damaged 1370 can be repaired. Not worth sending it in to MRC, but tech support can tell you if it is something that you can repair yourself, if you are so inclined.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:21 PM

Since you already have a DCC/Sound engine, I'd suggest looking at a starter DCC system. DCC wiring is actually quite a bit simpler than DC, you don't have to divide the track into numerous separate 'blocks' to run more than one engine at a time. Perhaps a Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Twin System. Each only costs about the same as two good MRC DC power packs.

BTW...you can use a double-pole/double-throw toggle switch connected between the power pack with the faulty reverse switch and the track and use it to reverse the power going to the track. Not hard to set up and only costs a few bucks.

Stix
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Posted by Ajhall on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:43 PM

OK, a few things related to the various posts. There is no reverse loop -- the track curves in the middle of the layout about 270 degrees, but ends at a bumper stop. The long straight stretch over the bridge might indeed be problematic -- I've debated replacing it with a short access road and a simple bridge like the kind I'd encounter in logging country on a fishing trip. That's neither here nor there, as I doubt it has anything to do with the problem.

Unfortunately, I do not know anybody in the area who also does model rr'ing. I think there's a club in the area, but it's only a rumor. I live in Maine, so things are pretty spread out. The nearest hobby shop is about 50 miles away, and the next after that 100+ The one within a reasonable distance is pretty much exclusively devoted to RC.

Today, I redid the wiring at the power pack trying all possible combinations: bupkiss. Then I did the multi-meter test, and lo, and behold, I think the problem is solved. When I tested at full power, I got +12v. When I threw the reverse switch, nothing. So, it seems to me the problem is with the switch in the power pack. I've had that for about 3 years, but last year circumstances forced me to put everything aside for what turned out to be about a year. I hadn't used it in all that time. I bought an Athearn from Train Sets Only a couple of weeks ago in what I intended as an upgrade, so I dug it out. Amazingly, right out of the box it failed -- it won't even turn on! So it goes back, and I'll get another.

Any suggestions on a good one for ~$50?

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 11:25 AM

rrebell

Like I said, I have had shorts that were not enough to flip the breaker but enough to wreck havok.

 
That's true. I had a problem burning out a couple of Digitrax AR-1 auto reversers in a reverse loop that had worked fine for quite a while. Eventually tracked down the problem was that when adding some feeders to the reverse loop, one wire got connected to the mainline power rather than the reverse loop connection. It wasn't quite enough of an issue to trip the circuit breaker (and was a bigger issue going one way through the reverse loop than the other) but did a job on the auto reversers.
Stix
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Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 9, 2018 11:14 AM

Like I said, I have had shorts that were not enough to flip the breaker but enough to wreck havok.

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Posted by steemtrayn on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:51 AM

AJ,

Are there any other model railroaders nearby that could come over and help in person? Where do you live (generally)? Maybe someone on this board is close enough to help.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 9, 2018 10:26 AM

 Nah, it's not hammertime yet. That would just short the whole thing. But the idea that one of the wires is on the fixed DC and one is on the variable DC - that would indeed render the direction switch inoperable. But still fails to get past the other symptom that physically turning the loco around without touching the direction switch also causes it to not move. It should move in the same physical direction as before, by the loco F and R designation, in reverse. That's tliek making a 3 unit consist, if you put 2 with the short hood front and the trailing unit with the short hood facing back, all 3 will move the same direction on DC (assuming they are all wired the same).  So as shown in the video - the loco will move towards the camera. If the loco is picked up and turned 180 degrees, it should still run towards the camera if the direction switch is left untouched.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 9, 2018 9:19 AM

If stranded wire was used, one little strand could touch the wrong post (never understood why they didn't separate the posts more on transformers). But I would go with the hammer theory.

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Posted by HOmainline on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:47 AM

Both of the loco's what? 

Kerry

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Posted by floridaflyer on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:47 AM

Agree with stix, set up a short track separate from your layout, that eliminates all the wiring and track on the layout from the problem. Do as stix suggests as far as wiring the short section and see what happens. 

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:43 AM

I'd like to see a picture of the side of the power pack where the wires are hooked up. If you go back to my post of yesterday (March 8) afternoon, I still think it's possible you've hooked up one wire to the DC Variable and the other to the DC 12V Accessory outlet. If you've connected one wire the DC Variable plus outlet, and the other to the 12V Accessory (constant) negative outlet, that should produce exactly what you're finding - engines run in one direction, but not the other direction.

Stix
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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, March 9, 2018 8:07 AM

The track over the small bridge caught my eye too.  It disappears behind a can of ground foam, but the angle looks to be too great to continue on to be a reversing loop.

Hammers on the track are bad form, but it's probably not spanning both rails or that would be a massive short.

You don't need all that much extra track to do the test suggested,  one piece is enough to see if it goes forward and backward, full throttle isn't necessary. Stopping it on a turnout isn't the best place to demonstrate the problem because turnouts can introduce other issues, if you are stopping on an unpowered frog, for instance.

 We aren't here to bust your chops but the track on the left side of the layout is danger close to the edge.
 
At some point you may find it useful to post pictures, there is a sticky thread at the top of this forum that tells you how to do that.  You cannot use the clipboard function or ways that might work in other forums.
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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