I am going to start a new thread to discuss my experience in scratch building the mansion. But, just before I do, I want to thank everybody for their replies.
Notable mention goes to the following three guys whose recommendations really facilitated my first scratch building project.
Ed - 7j43k - His suggestion was to laminate 0.20" siding and roof pieces to 0.40" styrene sheet for stability. That really makes a difference.
Frank - zstripe - Plastruct Plastic Weld, Orange bottle...it contains MEK. That was Frank's suggestion, and that stuff is awesome for laminating styrene sheets together.
Dave - hon30critter - His suggestion was to buy a nibbler tool to cut out window and door openings. I don't know how you cut out those openings without such a tool.
Thanks again, all.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain zstripe richhotrain So, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-plastiweld-1-plastic-model-cement-00002?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiAoby1BRDA Frank, that is a great recommendation. Picked up bottle of Plastiweld, and it really does a great job. Fast setting, but enough time to adjust and align. Rich
zstripe richhotrain So, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-plastiweld-1-plastic-model-cement-00002?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiAoby1BRDA
richhotrain So, if not laquer thinner or MEK, then what? Contact cement? Rich
http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-plastiweld-1-plastic-model-cement-00002?source=froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQiAoby1BRDA
Frank, that is a great recommendation. Picked up bottle of Plastiweld, and it really does a great job. Fast setting, but enough time to adjust and align.
Glad it worked for You Rich.....been using it for a long time. If You want super strong joints..lightly sand both mating surfaces and the welding qualities of the adhesive, will be deeper in the mating surfaces.
I still use Ambroid Pro-Weld for some projects...but the plastic weld is stronger. I have even used it on painted surfaces.....again lightly sand both mating surfaces, You don't have to take the paint off....it will still weld into the joint. I air-brush all My buildings/structures before gluing together and it has always worked for Me. I apply the adhesive to the inside edge of the sanded part and capillary action does the rest....so I don't have adhesive coming out of a corner seam and messing up the paint.
Another tidbit for You, unless You are already using one, is a ''Beam Square'' for scribing and measuring, along with a Plexi-glass cutter, like Red Devil for scribing Styrene/ABS etc.
Micromark carry's Beam Squares and the latter/Home Depot/Menards etc.
Beam Square: A little pricey, but worth it's weight in gold, for precision cuts:
http://www.micromark.com/thin-beam-square,8426.html
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plaskolite-Cutting-Tool-for-Plastic-Sheets-1999999A/100542314
Have Fun!
Frank
Rich I don't know if you have ever came across an older gentleman over at AMR , hes passed away now but he use to do scratch building using cereal box cardboard for the wall bases and glue the strip wood on , really came out looking great.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
Here's another shot of the roof details. Those are definatly ice/snow shields.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Hi mlehman
I don't think the snow birds what ever you wish to call them have anything to do with leaky roofs I can't see how they would stop it.
I think they are actualy to keep the snow and ice on the roof there would be quite a few ton's up there on a very solidly constructed and suported roof.
Slate as you say is slippery and a snow sliding pitch on the roof I think they are for when the roof snow reaches,
One hit one kill levels for snow slabs coming off the roof.
regards John
richhotrain zstripe I just hope....the games not called account of rain.... Do you think that may be a possibility? Rich
zstripe I just hope....the games not called account of rain....
I just hope....the games not called account of rain....
Do you think that may be a possibility?
Rich,
Gee! I hope not....I want You to take the plunge and do it...even if it's wrong.....You'll learn along the way and You may even learn some New cuss' words in a new language even...I did...moon's ago. LOL.
I have great confidence in You!
mlehman hon30critter First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse. Dave, I think you're right that the roof slope is troublesome and the slipperiness of the slate makes sliding ice and snow an even bigger problem. Fortunately, a leaky roof doesn't matter much on a model
hon30critter First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
Dave,
I think you're right that the roof slope is troublesome and the slipperiness of the slate makes sliding ice and snow an even bigger problem. Fortunately, a leaky roof doesn't matter much on a model
hon30critterFirst, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds. Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
richhotrain The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be. OK, fair enough, will still watch with interest.
richhotrain The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
Frankie
richhotrainThe actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
hon30critter Rich: The mock up looks good. It definetly conveys the impression of a stately home. The slightly steeper roof actually looks more mansion-like than the original. If I can suggest, the chimney is a bit too large, but I'm sure you will work out those details as the building progresses. Dave
Rich:
The mock up looks good. It definetly conveys the impression of a stately home. The slightly steeper roof actually looks more mansion-like than the original.
If I can suggest, the chimney is a bit too large, but I'm sure you will work out those details as the building progresses.
Dave
As I mentioned when I posted photos of the mock up, it was definitely a crude attempt to simply capture the relative look of the prototype to get some basic dimensions and angles. That's why I skipped the skylight and the dormer. We are going to take other liberties as well, such as two chimneys rather than one, one skylight rather than two.
This scratch build is more about modeling a mansion than about modeling the mansion.
JaBear, that is fair criticism since Michael posted the photo of the actual mansion. Of course, I started this thread to get advice on scratch building procedures, not critique on the actual model, but let me respond to your observations.
When Michael first brought up the discussion of the mansion and the possibilty of incorporating it into his layout and as part of the Coors brewery, it immediately became apparent that nothing like the mansion was available as a kit. And, even trying to kitbash available kits did not seem very satisfactory. So, either Michael should abandon the mansion idea or scratch build it.
I initially encouraged Michael to scratch build it, since he clearly has the talent to do so. But he declined, never having scratch built anything. I am still trying to recall whether I volunteered or Michael volunteered me. LOL. No matter, I have never scratch built anything either.
So, the challenge was to come up with something scratch built that at least suggests a mansion, if not the mansion. Selective compression became paramount based upon space considerations. Symmetry became important because it is easier for a novice scratch builder to work with fewer walls and roofs than more walls and roofs. The actual mansion is clearly not symmetrical, but the scratch build will be.
The Coors grandson was kidnapped and murdered in 1960. I suspect that is why there are so few pictures of the house.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
A properly done slate roof is quite heavy being three or four slates thick all the way up to the ridge.
Its one of the few scratch built model roofs you really have to do it properly where individual 2'X1' slates are individualy laid and well beaten tooth paste tube used for the flashing for it to look right all on a sub roof sheet.
Absalute PITA to do but for a foreground building well worth the effort when the paint shades are right for the area modeled.
richhotrain I tried to zoom in even more on the photo provided to me by Michael. On my photo, which is clearer than the one posted here, it seems as if the material bends up against that roof vent rather than butting up to it, which suggests shingles. Plus, a lot of curled up edges. Also, there is a "pattern" that is apparent throughout the roof. Rich
I tried to zoom in even more on the photo provided to me by Michael. On my photo, which is clearer than the one posted here, it seems as if the material bends up against that roof vent rather than butting up to it, which suggests shingles. Plus, a lot of curled up edges. Also, there is a "pattern" that is apparent throughout the roof.
OK, just to hijack the thread once more, I'm pretty sure those are not asphalt shingles. They are slate. The tabs are too far out of alignment to be asphalt.
That explains a couple of things.
First, slate is slippery so snow slides of easily, hence the proliferation of snow birds.
Second, I'll bet they had a ton of problems with leakage. Slate is not suited to a 5/12 pitch. It is too easy for water to back up into the shingles and run into the house. I suspect the number of snow birds was an attempt to stop the leakage, which, by the way, they wouldn't do. In fact they would make things worse.
Again! Slap my hand!
Rich - you are right. Nobody will know the difference if you use asphalt shingles.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterIf they ended up with that many snow birds they must have been suffering some serious problems.
I'm not sure that public tours involve this building or not. There may certainly be marketing or other internals events. Some attorney may have gotten involved. Hard to say, but the decision to use so many may have been due to such concerns, rather than actual problems.
Another thing is that Golden gets snow, but is also low enough that it warms back up to melt it a lot of the time. Plus it may be a south-facing roof on that side? This could contribute to issues with ice, etc sliding off more on this visible side than elsewhere.
mbinsewi FYI, Rich, here's a link to Google Earth View, showing all of the dormers and roof lines. ttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1 Mike. EDIT: Oops! didn't come out as a live link. EDIT 2: It does work with copy & paste.
FYI, Rich, here's a link to Google Earth View, showing all of the dormers and roof lines.
ttps://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1
Mike.
EDIT: Oops! didn't come out as a live link.
EDIT 2: It does work with copy & paste.
Here is the clickable link to the overhead shot:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Golden,+CO/@39.7620127,-105.2128564,43m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b981287686cf7:0x14c64654208055dc!6m1!1e1
Ya when I took those photos last week. I couldn't get very close to the facilty because its private property. So I had to find a spot that was pretty far away from it. And I used my telephoto lens.
My You Tube
mbinsewi Right on, Rich. I hope you keep us posted on your progress! Mike.
Right on, Rich. I hope you keep us posted on your progress!
Mike, the shingles from MicroMark look very good, and we did consider those for our project. Ultimately, we decided to go with the Plastruct product because a single sheet of shingles is perfectly sized so that we won't need to cut and fit multiple sheets together.
I think the shingles you posted look good, Rich. About as close as your going to get. I found these at MicroMark:
http://www.micromark.com/medium-gray-roof-shingle-paper-4-sheets-ho-scale,8398.html
I am getting ready to order the materials today. These are the asphalt shingles that we are considering.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/plastruct-asphalt-roofing-shingles-gray-model-railroad-scratch-supply-91636