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The designated "This hobby is so expensive" thread Locked

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:47 PM

andrechapelon
My mother did just that. She spent $50/week on groceries back then.

Recall $50.00 a week in groceries was a lot of food stuff-enough to fill the back end of a station wagon- instead of the three bags we get today for the same money.

$8.00 didn't buy as much as many think--that would fiill the tank of my '55 Ford Vic.

$8.00 would be a good resturant dinner for two.

Trying to compare the 60s with today--can't really be done even with those feel good inflation calcultors..

Larry

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Posted by andrechapelon on Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:56 PM

BRAKIE
 
andrechapelon
My mother did just that. She spent $50/week on groceries back then.

 

Recall $50.00 a week in groceries was a lot of food stuff-enough to fill the back end of a station wagon- instead of the three bags we get today for the same money.

$8.00 didn't buy as much as many think--that would fiill the tank of my '55 Ford Vic.

$8.00 would be a good resturant dinner for two.

Trying to compare the 60s with today--can't really be done even with those feel good inflation calcultors..

 

 
You really don't understand how to make historical comparisons, do you?
 
Never mind.
 
Andre
 
 

 

 

 

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 6:06 AM

andrechapelon
You really don't understand how to make historical comparisons, do you? Never mind. Andre

I do it in a realistic manner though..I recall the 60s very well for several reasons..

Your $50.00 grocery bill was a fine example how you could fill the back of a station wagon with large paper bags of food instead of three small plastic bags we get today-that's realistic.

Back then like today we worked to provide for our families and any funds left over was disposable for hobbies,movies,a night on the town,ball game or any of life's simple enjoyments..

I also recall my Aunt Midge complaining about the price of food back then so,complaining about high prices isn't new..

 

 

 

Larry

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Posted by NP2626 on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 6:47 AM
I don't understand why this thread has been made into a kind of joke!  What is wrong with reminiscing about how things were?  “Back in the day” conversations are very popular with people the average age of this group!  We all have fond memories of things we did and stuff we had in our younger years.  This hobby, as well as most of the other hobbies a person can become involved with has gotten more expensive over the years and this increased cost is not necessarily tied directly to inflation!  Obviously the majority of us model railroaders want more sophisticated and more detailed products for our railroads and are unwilling to add the sophistication and detailing ourselves, so we must pay for this service.

I, for one, believe this to be a very legitimate line of discussion!  The topic has broken no rules of how we are to conduct ourselves here at the MRForums!  So why has this line of thought been relegated to a form of verbal prison requiring all discussion on the topic too take place here in this thread? 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 7:14 AM

Maybe it's a cunning plan of our host to have some of the usual suspects burn themselves out, quite literally in one place, and "contain" the damage to forum moral caused by the constant posting of new threads by people complaining about how expensive model trains are.  It seems to be causing the glazing over of eyes as the topic drones on and on.

They aren't daft you know!  Wink

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 7:37 AM

riogrande5761

Maybe it's a cunning plan of our host to have some of the usual suspects burn themselves out, quite literally in one place, and "contain" the damage to forum moral caused by the constant posting of new threads by people complaining about how expensive model trains are.  It seems to be causing the glazing over of eyes as the topic drones on and on.

They aren't daft you know!  Wink

 

We use to send letters to the Editor or RPO especially when the price of MR went up..

Should have heard the fuss when Athearn raise their prices from $2.49 to $2.99..Again complaining about prices isn't new..We just have a better way of complaining.

I find ways to save hobby dollars by buying on line,train shows or used..I have no need to rush out and buy the newest locomotive because good old Joe at the club did.Good for him..I have no real need to finish my basement and fill it with a Godzilla size ISL  just because others find the need to do that..Again happy for 'em..

Of course monkey see,monkey do has never been my style.I found a slot in the hobby that fills my simple needs and I'm as happy as a two headed woodpecker in a bucket of worms.

Larry

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Posted by SLC RR on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 8:42 AM
Anyone making an "average" income, with non elaborate lifestyle choices in practice, can have a lot of fun model railroading; no matter what any one says. For those who want a little more, there are just more options open to them. With ebay and all the shopping experiences available, there are massive amounts of goods easily accessed and price comparing is easy, too.
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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 8:47 AM

OK, folks, we're done here. I intended this to be a thread where whining about how expensive our toys are could be isolated and ignored, not an invitation to delve into Keynesian economic theory and which party is responsible for shipping our 'Murican jerbs to China.

Keep this thread on topic (specifically, trains) or I may have to put it out of our misery.

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Posted by blownout cylinder on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 8:48 AM

Like I keep harping about.

You can make the hobby as expensive, or as cheap, as you want it to be.

 

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

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Posted by trwroute on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 9:28 AM

This thread has sure gone off the rails.    It started out with much promise, but as usual with these types of threads, the greater-than-thou types show up in full force and talk down to the guys like me to where I no longer want to participate in it.

Like I said early on, those types of folks need to find their own thread so they can praise the higher prices in our hobby.  I would not post in that thread!

Oh well....nice try, though....

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 10:43 AM

SLC RR
Anyone making an "average" income, with non elaborate lifestyle choices in practice, can have a lot of fun model railroading; no matter what any one says.

Absolutely..2 BB GP7s or older LL P2K or Atlas/Kato locomotives some Accurail kits and a simple layout and they're good to go.

Industrial buildings can be made on the cheap by using Mattboard  and  bags of Pikestuff wall sections and doors or just make modern concrete "shoe box" industrial buildings like you see in industrial parks.All you need is dock doors and white paint.

Larry

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:21 AM

Steven Otte
Keep this thread on topic (specifically, trains) or I may have to put it out of our misery.

No, Steven, please don't do that.  Whether the whining is specifically about trains, or just general whining, this thread seems to be keeping it confined.  I'm happy with that.

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:27 AM

maxman

 

Steven Otte

Keep this thread on topic (specifically, trains) or I may have to put it out of our misery.

Whether this thread lives or dies depends on how much effort I have to put into keeping politics (e.g. made in USA vs. China, the gold standard, or expensive union labor) out of it. Once it becomes not worth my time and trouble, it's gone.

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Posted by cedarwoodron on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:36 AM

Perhaps a column thread that focuses on ways to save money in practicing the hobby might be of greater and more beneficial value, along the lines of the old "kinks" MR column of yesteryear.

Cedarwoodron

 

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:41 AM

Workshop Tips already exists as a place for readers to share practical ideas about modeling. Feel free to share yours with us at workshop@mrmag.com (and you just might earn some cash to spend on trains).

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Posted by angelob6660 on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 12:29 PM

Thank you Steven, this column/thread was getting off topic.

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:01 PM

Mischief

The cost of things now, the cost of things then. How about all the things we have to pay for now, that we didn't have to pay for then? How does this factor into our train buying big picture?

Things like......

A home computer(or many)

New laptops for the kids every two years. I get a bill from the school.

Internet service.

Cable/Satellite Service. (TV had bunny ears)

Netflix or something similar.

Playstation subscriptions(or something similar)

Multiple TVs in the house (we only had one) 

A cable box for each one.

Buying sets of phones ( we only had one on the wall, provided by the phone company)

Microwaves (Not when I was a kid)

A freezer as well as a fridge (only had the fridge when I was a kid) Now I have a bar fridge in the bar and an extra fridge in the garage.

A cell phone for each member of the family plus the plan.

Putting kids into organized sport like hockey is through the roof. (it was pond hockey for me) There is easily 50 sheets of ice within a 20 minute drive from me. Had one as a kid.

The list goes on and on.

Our lives today are much better than those of our parents. A first world person living on welfare lives a better life than a lot of the rest of the world. I have seen happy, happy people living in grass shacks or mud huts that have never even seen some of the amenities we take for granted. It's funny though, an awful lot of them seem to have cell phones so they must have a place to charge them, and if they have a place to charge their cellphones, why don't they have a model railway.LaughSmile, Wink & Grin

 

 

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:55 PM

andrechapelon

 

You really don't understand how to make historical comparisons, do you?
 
Andre

 

In the words of my old teacher, Master Yoda, "noticed that, you have?"

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 4:11 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
In the words of my old teacher, Master Yoda, "noticed that, you have?"

Master Yoda.Looks to past in stead of where he is.

You can not compare the 60s to today not even with those feel good inflation calculators.

I spent just a tad over $73.00 today at the grocery store..6 small plastic bags..

In the 60s that would be a lot of large paper bags full of groceries  and several trips would be needed to carry them into the house instead of carrying all 6 bags at once.

Explain to me again how that compares to the 60s?

Larry

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 4:20 PM

How silly of people like Andre and myself to think that facts would get in the way of how somebody "feels" about the price of things.

OK, I have said enough for a while, I will leave you to your little negative Kumbaya fest on how the hobby is "too expensive".

Obviously some are not interested in conversation or discussion, they simply want to tell someone how they feel, and have someone agree with them to validate their feelings. I don't need my "feelings" validated by a bunch of strangers on a computer.

If I want to talk about my feelings, I can, and do, talk to my wife.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by CP5415 on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 4:35 PM

Everything in life is as cheap or expensive as you make it. It all depends on on you!

I've spent a lot of $$$$ over the past on my trains18 years, if the ex finds out, I'll be in deep ....!

Most of my stuff, I've bought on sale or second hand. I purchase my stuff as I see it. If I want it, I'll argue with myself over the price amd decide just how badly it needs to be on my tracks. Rapido Park car!!!! Had to have it!!!! Bought it at Georges Trains, didn't want to wait for it.

I've had to purchase my own place after splitting with the ex, it's not the Taj Mahal but there's space in the basement for a layout. BONUS!

I don't drive a brand new car, spent $700 on a 04 Caravan in 2013, still driving it.

Still have all the other bills to pay people have mentioned, but I've recycled all of the track/switches/benchwork from the last layout to start the new layout in my basement. Saved $$$$ that way.

I normally don't care about prices. If I can afford it and want it bad enough, I'll buy it.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:39 PM

BRAKIE

 

 
Bayfield Transfer Railway
In the words of my old teacher, Master Yoda, "noticed that, you have?"

 

Master Yoda.Looks to past in stead of where he is.

You can not compare the 60s to today not even with those feel good inflation calculators.

I spent just a tad over $73.00 today at the grocery store..6 small plastic bags..

In the 60s that would be a lot of large paper bags full of groceries  and several trips would be needed to carry them into the house instead of carrying all 6 bags at once.

Explain to me again how that compares to the 60s?

 

 

Wow.

Your repeated references to "feel good inflation calculator" made me suspect that you didn't know what "economic inflation" really meant, but this post proves it.  You really, truly don't know what "inflation" even means.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

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Posted by betamax on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 7:46 PM

If you really want a price comparison, look up how much a Zero 1 reciever cost back in the 1980s.  Or how much you would have paid for an Astrac system, and what you got for your money.

Only then can you complain about how good you've got it.

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Posted by MidlandPacific on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 8:25 PM

I have only three words:

Money well spent.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 9:12 PM

Your repeated references to "feel good inflation calculator" made me suspect that you didn't know what "economic inflation" really meant, but this post proves it.  You really, truly don't know what "inflation" even means.

Nope, and there's no point in trying to explain it either. It's one of those things that just isn't going to register no matter how hard one tries. In any case, for me, it's not worth pursuing any more.

Now, for those who are emotionally invested in the "we're being screwed" meme, and who actually do have some ability to understand the concept, but don't want to give up the sense of victimhood, it's fun to debunk and chuckle.

I don't know what the reference to $100 freight cars mentioned elsewhere refers to. The only "freight" car I know of with an MSRP approaching $100 is the Athearn Genesis SP C50-x bay window lighted caboose (the unlighted one is $30) cheaper. I do see that ARMN reefers with sound (oh yeah, that's what I really want, a 20 car reefer block with identical sounds emanating from each car) for $84.98). The Mack Sennett Keystone Kop versions (i.e. silent movie era) are considerably cheaper (about the cost of an AMB Laser Kit for an SP C30-1 caboose sans trucks and couplers).

Have you noticed you never see anybody wailing about paying $140 for an SP CS-22 combination station or the $75 for this kit (less trucks and couplers) http://bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Sparrows_Point/images/Kit_SP-45_PRRMl-com_web.jpg . I don't hear anyone whining about paying $23 for passenger car sides (forget about the rest of the car). That's what AMB charges.

How about $120 for a Lehigh Valley coach kit (less trucks and couplers) http://bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Craftsman_Kit_Cars/images/LV%20Coach%20Kit%20716%20for%20web.JPG (price lists on this page) http://bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Craftsman_Kit_Cars/index.html

Expensive freight cars? Taken a look at WrightTrak? These are kits, not RTR.

Anybody willing to pony up $300 for this (admittedly a limited editiom)?  http://www.besttrains.com/products_1013.html Apparently somebody is, or it would be a scratchbuilding project.

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by blownout cylinder on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 9:45 PM

I guess we can passout the crying towels then.

The whole inflation thing is done for me as well...even if I did not go into it...

Does anyone remember the birthday card booklet things that had all kinds of information about the year you were born? Well...it had stuff about what groceries cost then as well. If inflation does not exist then we should be seeing the same prices, n'est pas? Oh, and ...we would be seeing the same wages then too.

Oh....f'nargn....Model Railroader magazine would get letters complaining even back then of ....The prices are too high!!!

 

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 10:36 PM

All I am saying guys,is you are not getting as much today as you did back then and there is no way to put that into those feel good inflation calculators.$73.00 worth of groceries back then was a lot of large brown paper bags and not the 6 small plastic bags I got today but,what do I know? After all the feel good calculator says I got as much today as I did in the 60s.

 

 

Larry

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 10:52 PM

BRAKIE
After all the feel good calculator says I got as much today as I did in the 60s.

 

 

Show us.  Show us the link, and do the arithmetic.

Right here in front of everybody.  Prove what you're saying.

Because in my book, "inflation" means that $60 worth of groceries in 1965 would cost me $447.09 today, and I'm damned if I can figure out how that's supposed to make me feel good.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:31 PM

Show us.  Show us the link, and do the arithmetic.

Right here in front of everybody.  Prove what you're saying.

Because in my book, "inflation" means that $60 worth of groceries in 1965 would cost me $447.09 today, and I'm damned if I can figure out how that's supposed to make me feel good.

Give it up, dude. He doesn't understand that when we're talking about $60 in 1965 we're not thinking $60 in 2015, but are aware than $1 in 1965 had the same buying power as $7.45 today and he can't fathom why anyone would say that a $420 engine by Athearn in 2015 would actually be cheaper than a $60 engine in 1965 on a relative basis or why a Walthers RTR passenger car is cheaper in 2015 than a comparably detailed Walthers passenger car (with major subassemblies sold separately) was in 1965.

My retirement income on an absolute basis is roughly 23 times what my income would have been had my job in the dining room of UCSB been a full time job in 1965. Looks impressive until you divide by 7.45 and get the figure for real income in terms of purchasing power. When inflation adjusted, it's only 3.08 times. Nice, but not so impressive.

In any case, I have no problem with current prices. My objection to the current scene is that when it comes to transition era models, there are far too many outfits making F units and large (4-8-4 and bigger) steam locomotives. I'm willing to pay good money for a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 2-6-0, etc., and am aware that those engines need to sell for a good percentage of the price of an articulated. BLI's MSRP for the upcoming Pennsy L1 2-8-2 with sound/DCC is right at $500. Were I a slobbering Pennsy freak, I'd be willing to pay at least the probable street price (around $425), but it's Pennsy and I'm not interested. Price doesn't enter into the equation at all. Now if BLI were to do a Harriman Mikado (which they could do on the same mechanism) for the same price, I'm interested and willing to pony up the bucks. Ain't no manufacturer getting their hands on my money unless they make something I want. It's that simple. As to price, it's my call as to whether or not I can afford it. Complaining about price is a fool's errand.

Andre

 

 

 

 

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Wednesday, April 1, 2015 11:51 PM

andrechapelon
I'm willing to pay good money for a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 2-6-0, etc., and am aware that those engines need to sell for a good percentage of the price of an articulated. BLI's MSRP for the upcoming Pennsy L1 2-8-2 with sound/DCC is right at $500.

Andre

 

I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen more Consolidations; they were the single most common freight steamer, and the USRA Mikes were used enough that I expect we should see more offerings of them as well.

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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