I am talking about moving cars in and out of the service tracks. I have a transition era layout with a large TT and roundhouse. I have tracks for supplying the coaling tower, the sandhouse, and the diesel fueling facility as well as one for removing ashes from the steamers. I also have a track for various pieces of MOW equipment which is disconnected electrically from the rest of the layout and doubles as my programming track.
Since operations have only recently begun on my layout, so far these have just been static features on the layout. I have hopper cars at the coaling tower dock, a tank car at the diesel fueling station, and gondolas at the sandhouse and the ashpit but so far I have yet to move those cars in and out. I have read books which sugget that these are all "industries" that can be part of your operations. I wonder how many modelers actually do this and if they think it adds to the operational fun.
My engine storage area only has a engine house, space for five locos, and a old tanker body on a wooden frame. I therefore only randomly have a fuel tanker to be spotted by the tank.
Dry sand is delivered to the back of the engine house by dump truck.
Dave
When I had my layout up I had a service track for cars to be repaired, and in my case it was usually cars that needed a little TLC.
Absolutely. Delivering fuel (coal or oil) and sand to the engine facility is part of the operations of the railroad.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
At my main yard - I have a Car Shop which regularly receives a few cars for their monthly inspections.
There is a Fuel Track which usually gets one tanker a session but on occasions there can be two spotted there.
The MOW track gets loads of Ballast and ties randomally but usually there is a few cars needing spotted there each session.
These cars will sometimes sit in a yard track as the Yard OP does not get around to spotting them during the current session depending on how busy the yard gets (more operators that night) - but they are ready until the next session.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Servicing the coaling stations (two, on two different railroads,) ash pits, diesel tanks and sand houses are included in my car card/waybill operations, just like any other loading/unloading spot. Loose car coal for the engine terminals at Tomikawa is one of only two movements where both origin (my larger colliery) and destination are at modeled places on the layout. Sand and diesel #2 originate in the Netherworld (aka The rest of Japan) and the ash pit leavings are being used as fill somewhere Up from Haruyama. (The loaded gons are routed to a cassette for dumping prior to reassignment.) Routine, non-priority movements.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My engine service facility demands some switching. The roundhouse gets a box car full of engine and other parts irregularly. It needs a couple of tank cars with diesel oil and the coaling tower receives shipments of coal and sand and the ash pit has a gondola irregularly to haul away ash. There is a team track and a freight house which are also serviced, near the engine service facility, too.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
If you don't deliver coal to the coal dock, isn't that something like failing to plug in your power source? Just asking.
Tom
What about a train at the end of it's run? It has to sleep and wake up somewhere and be hitched up in a yard. (That is after the switchers do their job)
I'm not quite there yet, but I have it designed so the yard switcher has to build up the train and make the other crew prepare their train for the days orders. Startup, Coal/Oil, Water and Sand. It's just part of end to end operations.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
ACY If you don't deliver coal to the coal dock, isn't that something like failing to plug in your power source? Just asking. Tom
It would be if my steamers actually ran on coal.
I'm not dismissing the idea of actually switching loads and empties into the service tracks but it is not something I view as absolutely necessary. Right now I'm still working out bugs in my operating scheme and trying to balance car deliveries to other parts of the layout so that my yards and industries don't get backed up or overflowing. Switching the service tracks is something I can always add to the mix later without affecting operations now.
Sometimes we overlook the importance of imagination in this hobby. Is it that hard to imagine that while moving trains over the rest of the layout and switching industries that another crew could be busy taking care of the service tracks. It's not as if we actually deliver fuel and sand to these facilities..
DigitalGriffin What about a train at the end of it's run? It has to sleep and wake up somewhere and be hitched up in a yard. (That is after the switchers do their job) I'm not quite there yet, but I have it designed so the yard switcher has to build up the train and make the other crew prepare their train for the days orders. Startup, Coal/Oil, Water and Sand. It's just part of end to end operations.
I'm in the early stages of learning operations myself and I think you need to learn to walk before you can run. My operating scheme is loop to loop with staging yards inside the loops and a modeled classification yard in between. Some trains run loop to loop during an operating session, dropping a cut of cars at the main yard and picking up another cut. Some are thru trains which bypass the yard. Others still run point to loop and back again, terminating in the main yard. This gives me lots of oppotunities for classification switching. I use a car card/waybill system but I need to rebalance the destinations on the waybills because too many cars are ending up in one staging yard and it can't hold the number of cars that are ending up there. Probably just needs a few tweaks to get the traffic properly balanced. Once I get that right, I can always add service track switching at a later date.
Check out August, 1958 Model Railroader, "A Day At East Side". Seeing that, some of you might decide to rethink this and reconsider the drama of an engine terminal in model form. You might still decide an engine terminal is not your cup of tea, but I guarantee you'll appreciate some outstanding model work ----- almost 60 years ago!
BTW: Nobody says you have to build it all right now.
tom
Since I model a fictional short line/bridge line/interchange line, many things serve more than one purpose. The spur thathandles engine service work also doubles as the caboose service facility/ repair-in-place and access to a break bulk warehouse. This means considerable switching activity as this spur is fed from one of the main industrial spurs. A small low budget line does not have to be an idle place. Anything delivered means an empty car has to be switched out. Freight, desiel, sand, repair supplies and repairable cars all shuttle in and out.
Don H.
My layout plan includes a moderately sized engine service facility. It will handle both steam and diesel. Switching the service area will be a regular part of operations.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I have a fairly small engine facility, mainly coaling, sanding and ash-pit. However I do switch the coaling tower and the ash pit.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
jecorbett ACY If you don't deliver coal to the coal dock, isn't that something like failing to plug in your power source? Just asking. Tom
There is a lot of switching to be done in an engine terminal. During my era the IC fueled the diesel locomotives from tank cars full of diesel fuel. Sand and coal would need to be delivered and ashes and cinders hauled out in gondola cars. The IC along woth some other railroads used home built 0-6-0 tank engines to move dead locomotives around the engine terminal. The tank engine bein necessary to get on the turntable with the dead loco.
Besides coal for the locomotives there was usually a requirement of coal for the powerhouse that supplied steam and electricity for the roundhouse and shops.
I can't imagine not switching out company service locations (sand, coal, ash, diesel, spare parts, etc.). It's the same as a large industry on a layout if you think of the number of cars and tracks that can be used here.
Personally, I start with planning the car switching first, then figure out where the mainline trains go. I think starting with mainline trains and then trying to squeeze in local switching is a mistake. Local switching should drive the railroad's traffic...just like the real thing. But to each his own.
Paul A. Cutler III
Paul3 I think starting with mainline trains and then trying to squeeze in local switching is a mistake. Local switching should drive the railroad's traffic...just like the real thing. But to each his own. Paul A. Cutler III
I think starting with mainline trains and then trying to squeeze in local switching is a mistake. Local switching should drive the railroad's traffic...just like the real thing. But to each his own.
Paul3Personally, I start with planning the car switching first, then figure out where the mainline trains go. I think starting with mainline trains and then trying to squeeze in local switching is a mistake. Local switching should drive the railroad's traffic...just like the real thing. But to each his own.
In our HO world we can do that but,if we are emulating the prototype then the local mixes it up with the through trains.
Here's the problem..The majority of modelers want to run from Point A to Point B in the fastest time possible..
However..
A local does a lot of hurry up and wait work..Modelers enjoy the switching and hate the wait time spent in a siding waiting on a opposing train or waiting for a train to over take them.
For the record railroads would rather not be bothered with those troublesome locals and sees them as a necessary evil..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE For the record railroads would rather not be bothered with those troublesome locals and sees them as a necessary evil..
However, from the perspective of a railroad operating as a business with profitability as the goal, those “Locals” are the company’s "Bread and Butter!"
NP2626However, from the perspective of a railroad operating as a business with profitability as the goal, those “Locals” are the company’s "Bread and Butter!"
Best not bet the farm..Locals cost money to operate and is not really wanted that's why railroads spins off industrial branch lines to Port Authories which in turns that line over to a short line operator..
The railroads "Bread and Butter" is found in line haul not local freight.
BTW.If railroads get their way you will see one man crew on those 10,000' freight trains.
NP2626The above premise of transporting goods from one customer to another for profit is such a basic business premise and stupid easy to understand; but, your telling me I’ve got it wrong, huh?
If you understood railroading you would see their idea of customer service is unit trains from Shipper A to Receiver B. Some major railroads is well known to chase off smaller one or two car customers while other railroads embrace them..
Trains Magazine has covered this subject quite well over the years.
Larry, there is nothing of deep mystery as far as railroad business is concerned. I think my 31 years as a business owner makes me fairly capable of understanding how it all works!
NP2626 Larry, there is nothing of deep mystery as far as railroad business is concerned. I think my 31 years as a business owner makes me fairly capable of understanding how it all works!
Mark,In your line of business I'm sure you're top notched but,railroads don't operate like normal business do.Never have.
They would prefer to run intermodal and unit trains from point A to Point B and not have to worry about loose car freight like we see in general freight trains.There would be no need for locals.
Wasn't for loose car freight they could close and rip out every yard on the system.Think of the billions they could save.
John G. Kneiling the professional Iconoclast mention that in one of his Trains columns in the 60s.
Mark & Larry ---
I guess the issue here is one of volume and efficiency. The long intermodal train that runs intact from point A to a far distant point Z will be easier and cheaper to run, and therefore more profitable, than the local that runs from point A to H, stopping to switch a few cars in or out at points B, C, D, E, F, and G. By then, the crew has reached their hours of service limit and must turn their train over to another crew to serve points I, J, K, etc. All those intermediate points must be served in some way; otherwise the railroad loses that share of business. Nowadays many intermediate points that were formerly served by a local freight train, are now served by trucks, with their rail traffic being handled through large intermodal terminals. So you're both right. The railroads need to get a share of all that business, because all traffic starts out at some smaller location and is destined for another smaller location, even if those small locations are within a very large city. But the long-haul runs will be more profitable than the short hauls.
I guess we've taken this thread a bit off topic. However, I refuse to believe there is some type of Vodo science as to what the railroad's job is and how railroads make their money! Sure, the big jobs make mo-money; but, it's all the jobs that determine the bottom line! I have no doubt that some railroads don't like the small stuff and this has certainly given the trucker his work.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader