EDIT:
Post deleted - off topic.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Rich: Neat structure! I would suggest that this project would be better handled as a kitbash then a scratch build unless you are willing to forgo the arched brick over the windows. Personally, I think the arched brick is a key detail so I would want to have it on the model if it were mine. As an aside, your structure could be built fairly accurately with Walthers Modulars but the cost for doing a building the size that you want would be pretty stiff, so forget that! Frank's suggestion of the Walthers freight house is almost perfect for the upper story with the two windows/pilaster/two windows/pilaster pattern, and the arched brick over the windows.
Rich:
Neat structure!
I would suggest that this project would be better handled as a kitbash then a scratch build unless you are willing to forgo the arched brick over the windows. Personally, I think the arched brick is a key detail so I would want to have it on the model if it were mine.
As an aside, your structure could be built fairly accurately with Walthers Modulars but the cost for doing a building the size that you want would be pretty stiff, so forget that!
Frank's suggestion of the Walthers freight house is almost perfect for the upper story with the two windows/pilaster/two windows/pilaster pattern, and the arched brick over the windows.
I see three possibilities here, and they are pretty much as you describe them.
One, kitbash existing structures. Frank's suggestion is a good one, but I think that I could get closer to the prototype with another method.
Two, use modular parts like Walthers. Actually, the Woodland Scenics Modulars comes even closer for the right combinations of windows and doors.
Three, do a full scratch build. Start with brick sheets, as Frank suggested, and cut out the openings for the windows and doors.
As i study that building, there are four distinct wall "panels", a pair of large double hung windows, a pair of small windows, one large freight door, and one smaller arched door. These four distinct panels are consistently placed across the entire length of the building.
Whatever I ultimately decide to do, I will post photos and descriptions of my progress.
Rich
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRALYour really didn't think I bought 120 locos and 1000 freight cars in two weeks did you? I forgot to mention the 200 passenger cars..... Sheldon
And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
I went to a train show yesterday and bought three Roundhouse IPD boxcars with KDs for $18.00 ($6.00 ea)-the same road names that is/was available RTR for $18.95 each at street prices. While it is true these older Roundhouse cars doesn't have the newer metal stirrups and grabs they still get the job done at a lessor cost.
241 IPD boxcars in my 16 years of collecting these cars which averages 15 cars a year which is very affordable.
I'm not sure what the yearly cost would be since those 15 cars a year includes new and used Roundhouse and Athearn BB cars as well as new Athearn RTR IPD boxcars.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEAnd that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
Yes, this is why a budget of some kind is important, even if it's just in your head what you can spend each month and the ultimate numbers that becomes your goal to equip the layout you plan to build.
On the other hand, Sheldon's numbers also point out something else that's good about considering your ultimate goals and the budget needed to get there. Sheldon doesn't want or need sound. On the other hand, with motive power budgets that big, you still could build an impressive roster that is 100% DCC-sound. Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Ultimately, once extended over a period of time, because you couldn't build it all even if you could afford to buy it all at once, budgets don't "force" us to follow any particular path in the hobby, DC vs DCC, modern diesel vs steam, standard gauge vs narrowgauge. They're simply a guide to how you can turn your dreams into more concrete reality. With careful consideration, planning and time, you can afford just about anything in the hobby if you really want it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Lowes has 1/2 inch #19 brads which work as perfect substitute for track nails At $1.36 for a 1.75 ounce package, you can get three packagess for $4.08 compared to $3.95 for one package of model railroad track nails.
mlehmanEven if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Or add DCC/Sound decoders as the budget allows.
I have 2 DCC/Sound engines and a third in the shop getting its DCC/ Sound..This one started life as a Athearn DCC ready SW1500.
BRAKIE mlehman Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units. Or add DCC/Sound decoders as the budget allows. I have 2 DCC/Sound engines and a third in the shop getting its DCC/ Sound..This one started life as a Athearn DCC ready SW1500.
mlehman Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Yes, this is one area where diesels have an advanatge over steam in budgeting and building motive power rosters. My steam is all narrowgauge, both Blackstone and the few pieces of brass with Tsunamis I installed. You have a hard time plausibily getting away with doubleheading every train if you only converted half your steamers at once, for instance.
But with diesels, it's no problem to mix in one sound unit among several consists, which is what I have done with my F units. I still need to convert hood units, so have to simply rely on noisy Athearn mechanisms for "poor engineer's sound" on them. Works OK, if you have a vivid imagination.
mlehman BRAKIE And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases. Yes, this is why a budget of some kind is important, even if it's just in your head what you can spend each month and the ultimate numbers that becomes your goal to equip the layout you plan to build. On the other hand, Sheldon's numbers also point out something else that's good about considering your ultimate goals and the budget needed to get there. Sheldon doesn't want or need sound. On the other hand, with motive power budgets that big, you still could build an impressive roster that is 100% DCC-sound. Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units. Ultimately, once extended over a period of time, because you couldn't build it all even if you could afford to buy it all at once, budgets don't "force" us to follow any particular path in the hobby, DC vs DCC, modern diesel vs steam, standard gauge vs narrowgauge. They're simply a guide to how you can turn your dreams into more concrete reality. With careful consideration, planning and time, you can afford just about anything in the hobby if you really want it.
BRAKIE And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
Mike,
All fair and valid points, I do however have few comments.
What is the going price for nice sound decoder and speaker these days? Generally, when I was paying attention to prices, nice sound decoders were around $100.
And when comparing DCC ready or DCC/no sound locos to DCC/sound locos, sound seems to be about an $80 to $100 option.
But here is point one for me - a large percentage of my loco fleet is Proto2000 diesels purchased in the $30 to $60 a unit range - adding a sound decoder to them now triples their cost.
Sure, I have other locos I paid more for, most of them are steam, but evem a large percentage of them were purchased in the $100 to $200 range - Spectrum, Proto2000, even several BLI (some from the days when they offered "stealth", some I actually removed decoders from).
But even a $100 spectrum loco becomes twice as expensive if I buy a sound decoder for it.
So maybe as a result of my exceptional bargain hunting skills, sound would cut the size of the fleet in half - or double the budget.
Next point - DCC with sound requires a DCC system - to match the operations needs of the current design plan I owuld need at least eight wireless DCC throttles........and the rest of the DCC infrastructure.
Very little of that cost would be offset by not buying DC components because my DC system intergrates signaling, turnout control, CTC dispatching and power routing.
At the time I bought them, my eight Aristo wireless throttles would have not paid for eight wireless DCC throttles for many manufacturer - not to mention the rest of the needed DCC infrastructure.
Like Doctor Wayne, but for different reasons, DCC brings nothing to the table I want, in fact it would just create a lot more work and expense for me.
I clearly understand that this is not the case for many modelers, but my goals are not like many modelers.
So it is a win, win for me. My locos cost way less, I can have more of them, the work and/or expense of decoders is avoided, and I have my much desired CTC dispatching and signaling.
I would like to make two other points about my modeling goals relative to layout size.
One, my layout plan is BIG, but it is not complex. Big for me is not about more complexity, it is about capturing the feel of the prototype. On a model layout, a 10 track, double ended classification yard has the same complexity if it is 12 feet long or 24 feet long - it just looks and functions more like the real thing if it is 24 feet long.
Two - I like good display running values, what is a model railroad if it is not to "look at"? So my track plan is set up for BOTH good dsplay running and good operation - that operation can be by one person or a large crew - it can be by walk around or at a central dispatch panel.
Sheldon
Some of you people just don`t know when to shut up and others don`t know when to quit.
Way off topic for the last three pages.
Here is a building I did for a yard office on my layout......I still would like to add a light or three and a little more weathering.
The building was built with Evergreen sheet and strip.......and Grandt Line/Tichy windows.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
DCC is a choice, plain and simple. If you don't see the benefit, than there must not be one for you.
As far as changing the wiring to add DCC, I must be lucky as I simply replaced my Tech II throttle with my Digitrax Zephyr and started running my decoder equipped locos the day I installed the DCC. So, I can run DCC or DC, something that for some reason isn’t recommended. No 12 gauge buss wires and I don’t have track drops from every length of track on the layout. Never had a problem and don’t expect to. Maybe if I were to start running 3-5 trains at I time I would and if that ever happens I will add a buss wire. This would eliminate my ability to run DC, which really wouldn’t bother me as I hardly ever run DC anyway.
I like DCC, I like the fact that I am running my trains and not my track. However, like I have said it is a choice. Price wise it is slightly more expensive. I see the latest TECH 7 power pack is around $60.00 and the Digitrax Zephyr is $170.00 from Model Train stuff. Decoders run from less than $25.00 up. So, for the average model railroader, which I consider myself to be, going DCC with 10-15 locomotives to install decoders in isn’t that big of a deal. Like we all say, we’ve accumulated our equipment over time. So other than the Zephyr and a few decoders to get started with, the investment is doable!
This post is not off topic!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
To illustrate my point that with careful budgeting, you can squeeze in modeling some of the more exotic and inviting aspects of railroading. Narrowgauge, for instance. One way many do this is to take N scale track (9 mm gauge) and components and build HOn30 designs. This is often used to model 2' gauge New England style, small industrial lines, etc. I have some limited experience with it, but will leave it to someone else to go into detail.
I model the Rio Grande and some associated lines in HOn3 (10.5 mm gauge). Blackstone brought RTR to HOn3 almost a decade ago. Along with more traditional brass equipment, one can spend a fortune if you happen to have one. But even a sophisticated loco like a Blackstone K-27 or C-19 (or the upcoming K-36) can be budgeted for to get you going. There's a wide variety of kits available, so there's no need to spend for RTR when you can enjoy building most everything else while stretching your dollar further. Remember that away from the track, everything is the same as ordinary HO scale stuff, the scale with the largest selection of items of all. So the same budgeting that gets you a nice standard gauge layout over time could produce a great little HOn3 layout, too, if that's your desire.
But lets start really small and cheap. How about a less than 6" long train? http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/239376.aspx
The Grandt Line 25-ton loco is kit, available in either HO or HOn3 for $55. Yep, you read right, about the cost of some RTR freight cars these days. The 4-wheel cars were built on a PSC 31280 HOn3 flat car chassis I scored for $1 on close-out and scrap box parts. Throw in a decoder and a couple of SMD LEDs for headlights and it's a HOn3 train for under $100.
Need bigger power and have a slightly bigger budget? So long as you're OK with a modern diesel, for just over $200 you can get a strong performer from Liliput that's also easily convertible from HOn30 (remember it back at the beginning of this comment) with a high-quality Lenz Silver decoder and a conversion kit that can be modified to operate on HOn3. If DC is all you need, then you can have it running in HOn3 for about $175. The paint is not stock, but works for me
On a budget, but want brass? So long as you are OK with a K-27, there are tons of them out there, put out to pasture by the performance of the incredible Blackstone K-27. You should be able to find a K-27 for under $300 with little trouble, perhaps as low as the ~$200 range if you shop carefully. Converting it to DCC or DCC/sound will add a bit and require you to learn how to install it, but if you're gonna be cheap, you gotta roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty.
So how about rolling stock. So long as you want to build kits, careful shopping will yield all kinds of prototypes in a variety of materials and challenge to your skills. But there are humbler approaches. The old MDC Overton and 50' passenger cars can be split and narrowed. Less complicated are freight cars. In this pic is a modified flat car, the pieces of another one ready to assemble, and some leftover parts that I used to build the cars in the mini-train. The parts and instruction sheet are from old MDC/Roundhouse 30' steel flat car kits, which come with extension wood sides to make a gon.
The finished product, with recycled trucks, testing in a train in Eureka.
Even with RTR HOn3 available, narrowgauge is still a hands-on niche. So long as you don't mind learning by doing, you'll really enjoy it. And it doesn't have to be expensive if you choose wisely and shop carefully.
Dennis,
Nice building. The finishing really helps it stand out
Sheldon,
In terms of pricing, I was speaking of MSRP in general terms. Many new locos run in the $200 range in DC, with another $100 if you want factory DCC/sound. But it's a general argument, not one about specific locos or the fact that you still get more DC for your dollar. On the other hand, Bachmann is pushing the costs of DCC/sound down, first gen chips are still available dirt cheap (no thank you, but they're good enough for some), and it's likely the intro of the WOW 3rd gen decoder will push a 3rd gen Tsunami to market sooner rather than later. This will push pricing on 2nd gen decoders down and for many people the sound experience is satisfactory although I know YMMV on that, too.
Then there's the used decoder market, which will only expand as current users upgrade to improved performance.
My point is that if one wants to dream of pursuing any particular aspect of model railroading -- with the possible exception of the pure brass collector -- with careful budgeting, reasonable expectations, smart shopping, and being willing to learn a few skills, don't let the idea it will be too expensive dissaude you. There's almost always a way to afford it.
I like the part of this thread where everybody says a new person should do this, but have been in the hobby for decades. I'm still new I suppose(2 year tenure in the hobby) so as a young guy and still relatively new modeler. Here's my take:
You're not just putting money in but time as well, read, get as much info as you can. Then you confidently make a decision. Trust me, I've got money to buy nice models and not be "cheap" but my price is I don't have the time.
If you just want something simple, join a club, get a small train. Had I known this in 2012, I would've had an Atlas N scale GP15-1 train with the set and DCC when I started.
Detailing and scratchbuilding are not requirements, I can't detail worth my life nor can I scratchbuild.
A 4 x 8 or 2 x 4(if you're in N scale) is a lot better than nothing even if it's bare plywood with some track on it.
If you want to model cheaply remember the Keep it Simple Stupid principle and always think ahead like if you want to eventually upgrade to DCC get DCC equipped or DCC friendly(literally drop in decoder simple.)
To be honest there is no cheap way, the hobby will cost as much as you want it to.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
NP2626 DCC is a choice, plain and simple. If you don't see the benefit, than there must not be one for you. As far as changing the wiring to add DCC, I must be lucky as I simply replaced my Tech II throttle with my Digitrax Zephyr and started running my decoder equipped locos the day I installed the DCC. So, I can run DCC or DC, something that for some reason isn’t recommended. No 12 gauge buss wires and I don’t have track drops from every length of track on the layout. Never had a problem and don’t expect to. Maybe if I were to start running 3-5 trains at I time I would and if that ever happens I will add a buss wire. This would eliminate my ability to run DC, which really wouldn’t bother me as I hardly ever run DC anyway. I like DCC, I like the fact that I am running my trains and not my track. However, like I have said it is a choice. Price wise it is slightly more expensive. I see the latest TECH 7 power pack is around $60.00 and the Digitrax Zephyr is $170.00 from Model Train stuff. Decoders run from less than $25.00 up. So, for the average model railroader, which I consider myself to be, going DCC with 10-15 locomotives to install decoders in isn’t that big of a deal. Like we all say, we’ve accumulated our equipment over time. So other than the Zephyr and a few decoders to get started with, the investment is doable! This post is not off topic!
Completely agreed.
NP, I don't know how your DC layout was wired, but in many cases on simple layouts you can just replace a DC power pack with the DCC comand station - I know several modelers who have done just that.
In my case, the signaling, signal interlocking, turnout control, and CTC power routing (control of the blocks) is all intergrated into one wiring system - and amazingly it too is fully compatable with DCC.
The issue is that my system provides such easy and streamlined control of multiple trains, greatly reducing the importance of that aspect of DCC. When that is combined with my lack of interest in sound, DCC has little to offer.
I also said earlier DCC would make extra work for me - here are the reasons why:
I'm building a complex signal and CTC system anyway, even with DCC I would need most of the same wiring for the CTC, signaling and turnout control, the few extra wires for routing power to the track sections (blocks) are insignificant.
I model the 50's and as such most of my diesels are run in matched sets. Matched sets of DC locos run just fine together with out DCC speed matching and the like, especially pulling trains of the size I pull.
The story with steam is similar, it is actually easy to run double or triple headed steam with DC, I have outlined this many times on this forum, so has Doctor Wayne.
DCC would change all that. Unless every one of my Proto2000 FA's (I have 15 of them) had the same decoder, it is unlikely they would all MU together without speed matching as they do now. Mixing sound and non sound units complicates speed matching even more - no thank you.
So not only would I have to purchase and install 120 decoders, I would have to have some sort wild speed matching marathon/system or settle for speed matching sets and being more restricted then I am now.
I know lots of guys in DCC, I have helped install DCC system, and operated on a lot of DCC layouts, most of which are pretty large. I know all the advantages and disadvantages of DCC - for me, its just more work and money for features I don't need.
However, again, I do understand that my approach, my goals, and my tastes are outside the mainstream and that for a great number of modelers, DCC has a lot ot offer. The biggest irony of that is that many of those who preach the virtures of DCC most, use only the smallest number of its features.
mlehman Dennis, Nice building. The finishing really helps it stand out Sheldon, In terms of pricing, I was speaking of MSRP in general terms. Many new locos run in the $200 range in DC, with another $100 if you want factory DCC/sound. But it's a general argument, not one about specific locos or the fact that you still get more DC for your dollar. On the other hand, Bachmann is pushing the costs of DCC/sound down, first gen chips are still available dirt cheap (no thank you, but they're good enough for some), and it's likely the intro of the WOW 3rd gen decoder will push a 3rd gen Tsunami to market sooner rather than later. This will push pricing on 2nd gen decoders down and for many people the sound experience is satisfactory although I know YMMV on that, too. Then there's the used decoder market, which will only expand as current users upgrade to improved performance. My point is that if one wants to dream of pursuing any particular aspect of model railroading -- with the possible exception of the pure brass collector -- with careful budgeting, reasonable expectations, smart shopping, and being willing to learn a few skills, don't let the idea it will be too expensive dissaude you. There's almost always a way to afford it.
Mike, I agree the landscape is constantly changing and I don't pretend for a minute that everyone, or anyone, should do what I do.
And I agree completely with you assement that any goal can be reached with sound planing and reasonable expectations.
Today it seems so many new people go at this hobby all "willy nilly" and then wonder why it does not work out so well? No matter what some people want, it is a technical and mechanical hobby and as such is going to require some level of technical and mechanical skill.
The more you refine those skills, and the more you narrow your goals, the more money you can save.
So, now that we have the fact that DC and DCC is a personal choice and that either system is affordable for the model railroader. Maybe we can get back to ideas that will save money?
I was very sad to see that Floquil and Poly Scale paints where going to stop being produced. In my opinion, these where the best paints produced for painting model railroad stuff. However, many years ago I started using acrylic paints that I could find in my local craft store. In fact in my small town, there are several stores which sell these types of paints. Cermcoat is one manufacturer of this type of product. These paints come in a multitude of colors, lots of natural colors: greens earth tones, etc., are priced about the same as Poly Scale/Floquil; but, you are getting twice as much paint. These paints are great for painting scenery and using for washes and weathering. Add a little water to thin and clean up with soap and water. Very easy and quick to use. I don’t know anything about spraying these paints as I don’t hace a spray set-up.
richhotrainI actually have two of those freight offices plus two of the companion freight houses. But, instead of kitbashing, I would rather scratch build it, thus my interest in this thread. JaBear may be onto it with those windows and doors from Tichy and Grandt. Still, where do you start? Richa
Still, where do you start?
Richa
I have actually made a smaller warehouse similar to what you have shown which you could make cheaply printing on sticker A4 paper then mounting on foamcore, got for nix from photo framers here in Australia anyway. I can show an example at
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9679&forum_id=14&page=2
Where I took a couple of Tomkats buildings and made them three dimensional. The "Miracle Furniture Co" Building could be made into just a flat low relief in a short length to fit your scene. If you want the originals just PM me,
Regards from Oz
Trevor
Lots of good ideas and suggestions here, but folks, let's keep it on topic. "How to scratchbuild" should be its own thread -- especially "How to scratchbuild particular building X". Let's also not have another debate on the cost-worthiness of DCC, in this thread or any other. And I don't remember appointing anyone as Forum Judge to pronounce verdicts on the merits of other people's posts. Keep your opinions of your fellow forum members to yourself, please. Thanks.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Here are a few pics of a still in progress car shop I started a few years ago for my current layout......
Started with a basic drawing......I`m still old school with pencil and paper.
Some raw pieces of styrene sheet.....board & batten siding.
Cut outs made for windows......Grandt Line.
Windows made with castings and styrene angle.
Another view of windows.
A mock-up of the building.
Another view of the mock-up.
And a view of it on the layout.
I agree with NP at least for the crowd that sees my layout I use the cheap walmart apple barrel paint for most of my scenery and for weathering as well. The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) By freelancing I can make the Staten Island West colors anything I want.
I have exactly one bottle of Railroad Tie Brown I picked up at a train show for rusting rails and the like. But the acrylic works for that too.
Joe Staten Island West
joe323The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example)
If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too.
Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own
mlehman joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too. Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own
joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example)
rrebell mlehman joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too. Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own If you don't know how to mix, just try by starting with two batches of color (say your yellow) and add a bit of black to one and white to the other. See how things change, Add a bit more and so on to get a feel for things and remember I used the two far ends of the spectrum. I tend to use more greys and browns than black and on the other side, more off whites to ivory and of course any color can be added to change the original.
If you don't know how to mix, just try by starting with two batches of color (say your yellow) and add a bit of black to one and white to the other. See how things change, Add a bit more and so on to get a feel for things and remember I used the two far ends of the spectrum. I tend to use more greys and browns than black and on the other side, more off whites to ivory and of course any color can be added to change the original.
Interesting never really thought about it
joe323Interesting never really thought about it
Yeah, sometimes it's best not to overthink the art thing...ask me how I know http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/231838.aspx?page=1
In fact, past a few basic points, most of my better artistic endeavors come out the more I don't think too hard about them. I'd encourage you to simply experiment some and see how you like the results. If the first time doesn't come out too well, give some time and try again. That's a lot like weathering is for me, really sort of an advanced version of the same basic task of adding color to make something more believable.
I have not read all responses so pardon any repetition.
Depending upon your interests, a layout that runs one, two, or three trains is going to be a lot less expensive than a layout that runs many. Locomotives are some of the most expensive components of a layout, so a theme that minimizes the amount of locos needed is obviously going to be cheaper than the alternative.
Buying second hand stuff at train shows is a good way to get stuff cheaper. Inspect the items carefully and even remove them from the box. Less than honest sellers have been known to put the side of the item that has blemishes on the back side.
I like to search ebay or shows for less than complete building kits. They usually go cheaply, and since most of my buildings are kitbashed, these incomplete kits make good fodder.
- Douglas
Need some CA? Here's where it pays to NOT buy the biggest bottle, unless you have a huge project that will be continuously worked on. I've found a pack of a dozen tiny tubes at the big box stores, it costs slightly more but every one gets used up before it dries up, so I'm wasting a LOT less adhesive.
I disagree. I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it. I also bought a spray bottle of accelerant to speed up the curing process.
Jim
" I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it."
Unfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge. I tried to put a paint brush in a plastic bag once and boy, did I get an earfull! Same thing for the oven (ended up buying a small one just for my painting projects). Dollar store CA in mini tubes works well for me. It's not as strong as the real stuff, but I actually prefer that: mistakes are easier to fix. Cheers!
snjroyUnfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge.
Sounds like your shop area has a need for a dedicated minifridge. It'll also keep those beverages cold and handy.
snjroy " I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it." Unfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge. I tried to put a paint brush in a plastic bag once and boy, did I get an earfull! Same thing for the oven (ended up buying a small one just for my painting projects). Dollar store CA in mini tubes works well for me. It's not as strong as the real stuff, but I actually prefer that: mistakes are easier to fix. Cheers!
Small refrigerators aren't that expensive! You can keep a samitch, your beer and soda in there with your CA! As long as you're O.K. with your lips being glued to your beer can every now and then! Eventually the oils in your skin will cause the can to fall off. Don’t attempt to jerk the can from your mouth! This can be painful!
Seriously, a properly fitting cap on your CA is a must! Your wife has nothing to worry; or, complain about, CA bottles don’t take up much room.
Some ideas for cheapskates by cheapskates...
When I walk...I squick...
Curb side shopping...
Rest assurded you are in very good company.
These suggestions are for HO Scale, but will work in other scales as well.
Soda Straws, you know from the Golden Arches...
They make excellent gondola and flat car loads.
One thing though, I never really had good success in painting same with Floquil Poly-Scale. If you brushed paint would not fully cover, same with airbrushing.
Must be the plastic. Anybody had success in painting and using some type of "primer" or plastic compatble primer to get paint to hold?
Match sticks, whether small or kitchen match type. Makes good shipment blocking for loads.
Tooth picks. Make good size fence post.
Let see...
Long wooden cotton swabs. The type medical personel use for numorus proceedures. Cut the cotton head off and you have some nice size utility poles.
3M Brand Scotch Tape Spools. Make excelent flat car and gondola loads for simulating various steel fabrication parts, you immagination is the limit.
A long out of print Kalmbach Book, was as I recall 764 Hints for Model Railroading. These were short story projects that appeared in MR during the 1940's through 1970's.
Excellent Miser Projects!