i recently made a mistake.... bought 20 ho scale 53 ft trailers and 5 x sets of walthers spine care..... i didnt know the walthers cars only hauled upto 48 ft trailers............. question... what model spine cars / flat cars are used to haul the 53 foot cars..... thanks peter
Peter,
Are they 53ft actual Trailers or 53ft Containers? Being in the Intermodal Industry since 1983 a crane operator for 10yrs at CSX Intermodal. I have not seen a 53ft model spine car model made yet. What we used to do with JB Hunts and Schnieder 53ft trailers, would put them on a 48ft Five pack spine cars, with wheels slid up, so they would rest on the wheel platform and put one on each knuckle end and one in the center. If they were 53ft containers, we would put them in a 48ft well car the same way, but stacked on two 20ftr's, 40ftrs or a 48ftrs, one on each knuckle end and one in the center. We actually got to the point that we made sure how those trailers were loaded, demanded to know. One reason being, when you picked them up with the grappler arms, they were breaking in half, with freight scattered all over the place. You won't see many 53ft trailers like Swift or others running by rail, unless they are containers. The trailers are just too flimsy and ties up the loading and unloading of Intermodal trains.
Athearn at one time made 56ft well cars but discontinued them for some reason. Another MFG was supposed make 53ft spine cars, but I have not heard about it yet. I think Kato made Metal ones, but they are N-scale.
The Athean 56ft well car:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH91106
Take Care!
Frank
BTW: You could run the 53ft Trailers on 85/89ft flat cars with a 20ft container on one end, but those flat cars take up a lot of real estate, with not much revenue to justify their existance anymore. A lot of American Railroads have already got rid of them.
thanks frank..... i thought the 53 foot trailers ( not containers ) were the standard trailer......i have approx a dozen 89 foot flats with 53 ft trailers and approx 8 x atearn spine cars with 40 -48 foot trailers.... i thought i would try the 53 foot trailers because they look more modern.....peter
Looks like the TTX TTAX class of spine cars handles 53ft, or at least TTX states that on their website:
TTX’s “conventional” fleet (non-double-stack intermodal cars) is used mainly to transport highway truck-trailers, or in some cases, intermodal containers over routes that lack double-stack clearances. Our standard intermodal fleet consists mostly of 5-unit, 53-ft, articulated spine cars (overall length of 270-ft per car). The cars are initialed TTAX for “all-purpose,” and their design permits handling of most trailer sizes, including 28-ft “Pup” trailers through 53-ft trailers and most container sizes (20-ft, 40-ft, 48-ft, and 53-ft). Similar to double-stack cars, the TTAX’s are articulated (meaning they share wheels between the car’s units), which provides a smooth ride for intermodal cargo by reducing slack action. The Spine Car® designation refers to the car’s minimal structure and the use of a central beam or spine, which saves weight and increases fuel efficiency.
As I understand it (from what I read, and even in questions asked around here), 53ft trailers are pretty much the domestic OTR standard (at least since the turn of the Century), with 48fters more or less relegated to local delivery. How the 57fters are handled, I guess that's via 89ft intermodal deck flats...
In this modern new age the 53ft Trailer/container is the norm for domestic use only. You won't see one of those being shipped to your country. For world-wide use the 20ft & 40ft is the norm. Some states until recently would not even allow a 53ft trailer on their roads. It would play hell in some New England states to deliver a load on a 53ftr, how well I know that.
I personally don't have any 53ft trailers or containers on my layout...I detest them. I think they look out of place, too long.
When I was leased to Continental Can Co. I would pick up sheet tin and take it to a stamp plant in CT, only seven miles in the state. I always made it in OK, just got caught at the scale coming out empty. The scale master would come out of the scale house and look at my fuel stickers and tell me that I didn't have one for CT, had to buy one right there before I could leave...then he would ask with a smile on his face, ''What length is that trailer?'' I would say 48ft. His answer with a laugh would be get the heck out of here. I got to know him very well. 53ftr's were not allowed in CT, but it appeared they did for Continental Can Co. for only seven miles.
I have some of these and they're pretty good. 57' spine cars.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH28916
I loved the explanation given by the CSX crane operator too!
Richard
Richard,
I see they say the same thing: Out of Stock, Discontinued. I guess the demand is not that great.
I will freely admit...I forgot about them. But like I said...don't like 53ftr's of any kind anyway.
Apparently the 57ft of those Athearn spine cars refers to lenght, not to maximum trailer length:
These cars can be configured to allow loading of trailers of varying lengths, from 28' pups to 53' high capacity units.
Bowser offers some very nice spine cars in their executive line. Available in 3 or 5-unit sets, they can be used to carry 53' trailers as well as all sizes of containers. The bowser model is similar to athearn's: die cast metal bodies, metal wheels, etched walkways, lots of added on details. Worth looking into.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/spine.html
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
hello frank..... i understand about the iso 20... 40 ft containers... you are right
we also have containers longer than 40 ft... they also are used for internal transportation....you mentioned fuel stickers... what are they... i have never heard of those?????...... i you would like to see some of my trains look at my you tube..... sexygirlove20 ...... thanks peter
chutton01 Apparently the 57ft of those Athearn spine cars refers to lenght, not to maximum trailer length
Apparently the 57ft of those Athearn spine cars refers to lenght, not to maximum trailer length
No, it DOES refer to maximum trailer length.
Ed
http://www.3000toys.com/catalog/products.aspx?start=1&TYPE=TRUCKS&MFG=TONKIN&SCALE=1/87&ORDER=M&setup=
i got my trailers from 3000.toys
Years ago, still in the 80's and before commercial carriers, trucks had to have a fuel sticker on the side of the truck from that state in order to be on the roads of said state, or buy any fuel there, you had to have one for every state you operated in, along with a thick paper map with every state that had a authorization sticker on the map. I had the little sticker, but did not have the one on the side of the truck. In the US a scale house was a port of entry, like going to a different country, weights, lengths, each state had their own set of limits. They nationalized the rules around the mid 80's and got rid of the fuel stickers and replaced them with a IFTA sticker, for quadruple the price. It was not cheap by no means to own your own truck in the US. I had a P plate which stands for power plate, I could go anywhere in the US and Canada with that plate...but it was 35 hundred dollars a year and I had at one time three trucks running, with drivers, I made quite a few bucks...but paid a lot too. Took me four yrs of constant struggle to finally get my head above water. If I did not have the knowlege and tools to do most of my own repairs, I never would have succeded, but I made it and finally was able to buy brand new trucks, that I and my drivers could drive for five years without any big problem's. I'm 72 and don't even drive a car anymore and don't miss it one bit. Didn't mean to ramble.
Just looked at your link...nice models. You would not see those trailers, unless brand new and empty, on most US Railroads today. They would be refused, unless they were containers on chassis's. They have to be picked up by the grappler arms, those swinging arms you see and those grapplers just grabbing the bottom sides of the trailer are enough to damage it. They would have to have heavy duty oak wood attached to the front near the kingpin and right over where the tandems are if they were to be shipped by rail. All containers are picked up from the top. Those areas on the side where you see a vertical band on the front side and rear side of the container are standardized mounting for 40ft containers all over the World and they are heavily reinforced corten steel, that's were they put the IBC's when double stacked (inter- box connectors). I need a break...my fingers are cramping.
A short You tube video of a Letoureau Articulated Intermodal crane side loader, loading a trailer on a spine car. 53ft trailer.
I operated one of these also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1E9IEs3hLY
zstripe ...IBC's when double stacked (inner box connectors).
...IBC's when double stacked (inner box connectors).
Inter-Box Connectors
ED,
Forgive Me....That was a finger error, I didn't catch.. does this mean I won't have any dessert tonight after supper? Cramped fingers do that some times.
Frank,
I figured it was a slip. But if not corrected, it'll possibly take on a life of its own. And we'll have someone asking about OUTER box connectors.
I'd recommend the blueberry pie, myself.
Ed,
Yeah! I like blueberry pie.
BTW, The older JB Hunt 48ft containers, you had to have on the crane spreader bar the twist locks that went into the side holes at the top of the container in order to pick them up. They were a pain in the patooey'. And they would only fit on a JB Hunt junk flimsy chassis. That got old very fast. I guess the railroads and JB Hunt finally got together and got them to use standard methods. Probably JB Hunt got tired of paying damage bills for broken and damaged equipment. The railroad is not liable for that end of the deal. Ha! also UPS. There are strict rules regarding the ramp that venders must follow, or be banned from the property. UPS drivers were notorious for parking waiting for a load on the concrete crane path,one of the rules in bold print, but yet they still do it. I have three UPS tractors to my credit. When the crane is on one side of the track the operating cab is on that side, so you can't see the other side, especially when the train is loaded on the other track. I don't need to tell you what a 10ft tall tire does to a tractor. Luckily there wasn't any injuries. One operator was the ace with 6 and one from some cartage joint. About a year later, they installed camera's and screen's in the operators cab and AC thank God.
Have Good One!
I've run 53' trailers on 57' Athearn spine cars no problem. One of the few types of rolling stock that hasn't derailed yet on my layout. I think Bowser made some (57' Spine) also but I didn't buy them when they came out.
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
ho modern modeler I think Bowser made some (57' Spine) also but I didn't buy them when they came out.
I think Bowser made some (57' Spine) also but I didn't buy them when they came out.
NO. The Bowser's are 53'.
Here at Hulsey we see 53 Foot containers and trailers on TTAX cars quite often
Info for all to view.
I would not worry too much about getting 57ft spine cars, 53ft spine cars are perfect for Trailers/Containers, the number on the side of the equipment, 53ft designates the size equipment that will fit on the car, not the length of the car. And 57ft trailers are not allowed in all states and some only with a permit....which is not cheap. The only time I ever witnessed 57ft trailers in use when I ran coast to coast was Texas and OK. on the OK. Turnpike, you can see double 57ftrs running on it.
Here is a list of all states that will allow them and ones that need a permit:
Contrary to some peoples belief, it is not that easy to get around with a 53ft, let alone a 57ft. They don't bend in the middle around corners.
http://www.ltrc.lsu.edu/TRB_82/TRB2003-000701.pdf
carknocker1 Here at Hulsey we see 53 Foot containers and trailers on TTAX cars quite often
TTAX cars are 53 footers; TTRX cars are 57's.
When I last did my semi-decadal research at my favorite train-watching spot in 2010, the two sizes were about equally represented. Note that the 57's are three unit platforms, while the 53's are USUALLY 5 unit platforms. The latter also show up as 3's, on occasion--I only saw a couple of these, though.
Also, you can put two 28 foot trailers on a single 57' platform, but you can't do that on the 53's. Should you so desire.
hello ed.... where is hulsey.... which state...
thanks for the info... looks like i can run the 53ft trailers on the shorter walthers cars by only putting 3 on a 5 x spine care unit.... for the rest i will need to get some longer spine cars.... bowser
i see that the trailers also can be put into well cars..... seen these with trailer hitches..... do these carry 53 ft trailers.................. thanks peter
peterjenkinson1956 hello ed.... where is hulsey.... which state...
I'm aguessin' Georgia. But I think someone else here is more knowledgeable than I on that.
thanks for the info... looks like i can run the 53ft trailers on the shorter walthers cars by only putting 3 on a 5 x spine care unit.... for the rest i will need to get some longer spine cars.... bowser i see that the trailers also can be put into well cars..... seen these with trailer hitches..... do these carry 53 ft trailers.................. thanks peter
From what I've seen, you can put trailers into and on whatever they'll fit. That means the wheels have to be supported, and the trailer can't hit the railcar or another trailer. Oh, yeah. You need a hitch, too.
I had a Martrac 48ft reefer break in half while unloading from one of those tub cars with fifth wheels on them with a side loader, you have to use the grappler arms to get them out and there is not a real lot of room for them. Good new's the reefer was loaded from Mars candy. We were eating M&M's for a month. It would be the railroads call on that. No flimsy JB Hunts or Schneider 53ft trailers, they are getting rid of them anyway and going all 53ft containers.
My Son Pete is an ATM at UP Intermodal yard in Joliet, Il. My youngest Son Nick, He's 35 is a yard master at the CSX Intermodal yard where I worked. I'll ask Pete for sure when he gets up, He's gotta work tonite. I retired when they got heavy with 53ft containers and I'm not a railfanner, known as foamer's by Railroad people, at least this part of the country. No offence to railfanning.
Of course I'll offer the obligatory "it's your RR and you can do what you like" and get that out of the way from the git go.
If you are trying to follow common practice for a given time period, then trailer length and intermodal rail cars should correspond to the time frame. In other words, if you are modeling 1985, I don't think trailers longer than 45' were used in intermodal service and rail cars were configured to handle 45' trailers - and maybe some were preparing themselves for 48' trailers so some rail cars may have been configured to handle them.
As for 53' trailers, I believe others have mentioned Bowser makes spine cars which are of the type built to handle those trailers (and of course shorter trailers). The ETTX Long Runner draw bar connected 89' flat cars can handle long trailers too with one trailer straddling the two flat cars.
Interestingly, I've read that many well cars in the past 10 years have been cut down to handle 40' containers because apparently international shipping and overseas still uses 40 and shorter containers, apparently longer containers are domestic use only so some rail cars used for international are set up for 40' now. I'll defer to the "modern" folks to comment further on that!
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Worldwide standard shipping containers are 20 & 40ft containers, packed in container racks on container ships 9 high. No provision for anything larger. But some container lines would run under certain conditions 45's on deck. Containers capable of being stacked 9 high must be corten steel, most of that info, used to be on all standard shipping containers.
riogrande5761 Interestingly, I've read that many well cars in the past 10 years have been cut down to handle 40' containers because apparently international shipping and overseas still uses 40 and shorter containers, apparently longer containers are domestic use only so some rail cars used for international are set up for 40' now. I'll defer to the "modern" folks to comment further on that! Cheers, Jim
I think the cars most hit by the "remodeling" would be the 48' single and drawbar connected well cars. They can't accept 53' containers; there don't seem to be any 48' boxes around any more, 45's aren't real common. I also think that both 40' and 53' wells have been made from them. Seems to me they could make a 40' and a 53' from two 48's. But I don't know whether that actually happened. For a modeler, though, it tends to be an attractive idea. Walthers was going to bring out a model of the stretch-53', but changed their mind. Sadly.