While I can certainly understand your desire to detail these cars, the thick "glass" of the Athearn windows does tend to obscure things a bit, meaning that a lot of interior detail may not be very visible, even if you light the interiors. One of the easiest ways to suggest interior detail is to add window blinds.
Although the pictures below show blinds for a structure, the procedure is similar for making ones for passenger cars, too. The first step is to measure the width of the windows and decide if the blinds will all be at the same height (as they often were set that way before passengers boarded) or if they'll be at various heights (set by those passengers sitting in the car). You can either cut out individual ones for each window, as shown here, or cut them from a single car-length piece. Even the multiple height shades can be cut as a car-length strip. I usually use .015" sheet styrene, but .010" should work well, too - the thickness won't be apparent once they're installed:
Next, use solvent-type cement to attach a length of .020"x.040" strip styrene to the top edge of a car-length strip of blinds or, if you're using individual blinds, cement their top edge to the strip material, as shown here:
Mask-off the exposed face of the styrene strip, then paint both sides of the blinds in your choice of colour. These have been cut apart again, as they're intended for a number of very small crossing shanties:
Next, apply some solvent-type cement to the unpainted strip, and some also to the area of window "glass" above the actual window opening, and press the blind into place. The strip will keep the blind from contacting the "glass", preventing the cement from 'crazing the glazing'.
My only Athearn passenger car still retaining its original appearance (sorta) is Grand Valley business car "Rockhaven". It's a shortened observation car, with partitions added to break-up the see-through look - this is the aisle side, with grab bars across the windows and window shades neatly set by the car attendant. The stove pipe is for the coal-fired galley range:
...and the stateroom side. The air conditioning duct was made from .010" sheet styrene, and the diaphragm is by American Limited:
Pretty-well all of my other Athearn passenger cars (coaches and Pullmans) have been re-worked into wooden baggage and express cars. Some have the older-style all-metal trucks, too, and their rolling qualities are very similar to that of a brick.
Here's a couple of Rivarossi 12-1 Pullmans modified as coaches, showing window blinds and a simple way to add an interior using Pikestuff seats. While they're intended for more modern cars, a quick coat of paint in a more subdued colour and they don't look too terribly out of place:
This one has a solarium lounge, modified with parts from New England Rail Services:
...and diner Magnetawan, with simple tables and banquette-type seating made from sheet styrene:
As you can see, not much of the interior detail is visible under normal layout lighting, and I don't use lighting in any of the cars.
Wayne
Wayne...GREAT tip! Thanks for sharing!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
I recently purchased a string of 5 Athearn RTR Streamlined passenger cars for the Rock Island. I replaced the truck mounted couplers with body mounted Kadees. I replaced the wheelsets with Intermountain metal ones (don't remember if they were 33 or 36 inch?) and added American Limited diaphrams. Get the 6 pack of the diaphrams as you may wind up needing a spare part. Having 26" radius minimum curves they don't have any problems with the body mount couplers and roll very easily. I also used the Micro Mark Truck Tuner on the truck sideframes. I also added shades/blinds to the windows. My only complaint with the Athearn cars is the sink marks on the roof from molding process. (Don't know why Athearn couldn't have avoided this?). They can be made into reasonably good operating/looking passenger cars.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Prototype passenger cars did indeed have 36" wheels (at a time when most freight cars had 33" wheels, although these days many freight cars also have 36" wheels). I could not recall if Athearn passenger cars had 33" or 36" wheels. After all, many of their cars had considerable deviations from prototype practice quite apart from the shortened length. However a 1976 Walthers catalog verifies that Athearn had both 33" and 36" wheel sets in plastic and metal.
The "standard" Athearn passenger cars were reviewed in the November 1960 MR. The review makes no mention of wheel size, only that at that time the trucks plastic wheels) ran poorly and did not track well. The review was particularly disappointed with the shortened length of the Pullman -- and the very next month, December 1960, MR ran an article by Bill Clouser (a famous scratchbuilder of that era) about stretching the Athearn Pullman -- still an article worth reading. He substituted Central Valley trucks.
The Athearn streamlined coach was reviewed in the October 1955 MR. The review notes the shortened length (but contrasts it favorably with the 60' "shorty" cars then available).
My own feeling about shortened passenger cars such as Athearn is that very few layouts have the sorts of curves where full length passenger cars can be run without absurd overhang on curves. So something is going to be unprototypical for most modelers: the length of the car, or its overhang. Since the overhang can actually force double track spacing to have to be increased beyond normal prototype, on balance I think there is still something to be said for the clever compromises Athearn used in its passenger car line.
Dave Nelson
dknelsonMy own feeling about shortened passenger cars such as Athearn is that very few layouts have the sorts of curves where full length passenger cars can be run without absurd overhang on curves. So something is going to be unprototypical for most modelers: the length of the car, or its overhang. Since the overhang can actually force double track spacing to have to be increased beyond normal prototype, on balance I think there is still something to be said for the clever compromises Athearn used in its passenger car line.
Good point, Dave. My layout generally consists of 26" radius curves or larger. However, out of necessity, my reverse loop is 24" radius. Last Spring, I spent considerable effort to get a five car consist of Walthers cars to take the 24"curve without derailing, just to see the cars overhang the curves. The overhang was excessive even on the 28" curve portion of the layout, let alone the tighter curves.
My current project is to run a short 4 to 6 car consist of Athearn HWs in place of the full length train. The 72' length makes them plausible, especially behind an FP7 set or a couple of Road switchers.
Joe
dknelson Prototype passenger cars did indeed have 36" wheels (at a time when most freight cars had 33" wheels, although these days many freight cars also have 36" wheels). I could not recall if Athearn passenger cars had 33" or 36" wheels. After all, many of their cars had considerable deviations from prototype practice quite apart from the shortened length. However a 1976 Walthers catalog verifies that Athearn had both 33" and 36" wheel sets in plastic and metal. The "standard" Athearn passenger cars were reviewed in the November 1960 MR. The review makes no mention of wheel size, only that at that time the trucks plastic wheels) ran poorly and did not track well. The review was particularly disappointed with the shortened length of the Pullman -- and the very next month, December 1960, MR ran an article by Bill Clouser (a famous scratchbuilder of that era) about stretching the Athearn Pullman -- still an article worth reading. He substituted Central Valley trucks. The Athearn streamlined coach was reviewed in the October 1955 MR. The review notes the shortened length (but contrasts it favorably with the 60' "shorty" cars then available). My own feeling about shortened passenger cars such as Athearn is that very few layouts have the sorts of curves where full length passenger cars can be run without absurd overhang on curves. So something is going to be unprototypical for most modelers: the length of the car, or its overhang. Since the overhang can actually force double track spacing to have to be increased beyond normal prototype, on balance I think there is still something to be said for the clever compromises Athearn used in its passenger car line. Dave Nelson
To extend Dave's thoughts a bit farther, I have 36" radius and larger curves, but still prefer shorter, selectively compressed passenger cars.
First we compress lots of other stuff, structures, turnout sizes, etc. Keeping these largest of rail cars on the smaller side of their prototypes helps give these other things we have compressed an illusion of better proportion.
Also, if we closely examine the thousands of DIFFERENT passenger cars designed, built, and used in North America in the twentieth century, we find that in reality they came in all manner of lengths - not all were 80' or 85".
First, heavyweights - only diners, Pullmans and observations were universally 80/85'. Most head end cars ranged from 60' to 75' - making the Athearn cars very believeable.
Heavy weight coaches ranged from 60' to 85'. So while the Athearn coach may not match your prototype, it is actually very close to great number of actual coaches.
Streamline cars - In the early days of streamliners in the 30's, many where less than the 85' length that became popular later. The cars of the original B&O Cincinnatian were only 79' long. The ATSF had Budd build a number of stainless steel cars that were only 72'.
So unless you are dead set on a particular exact prototype, and can afford brass, or are lucky enough to model a railroad who's passenger cars are well represented by the newer high detail RTR models, you will likely settle for a few "stand ins".
If you freelance, or are comfortable with "close enough" than why not take advantage of selective compression? It makes your curves look bigger, your station platforms seem longer, allows closer, more relistic track centers and you can close couple your passenger cars with working diaphragms with less concern for problems.
Close coupling and diaphragms - to my eye, ANY train of passenger cars with widely spaced cars and gaps between diaphragms looks toy like - I don't care how nice or well detailed the cars themselves are.
On the other hand, the most generic, basic, moderately detailed cars look much more realistic in a train that is close coupled with working diaphragms that touch and stay touching - shorter cars make this more practical for those who need to stay with curves in the 30" range.
Again, most of my passenger fleet is Athearn and Con Cor 72' cars. I add verious details, close couple, add American Limited diaphragms, and kit bash any number of cars not offered in those product lines.
The detailing and refitting of these cars is not without expense, but is still usually well below the current RTR prices of the longer cars that would only look good on even larger curves and turnouts.
ConCor has upgraded the trucks/wheels and couplers on their 72' cars. Athearn now has nice metal wheels on their RTR versions and sells those wheels separately to upgrade older Blue Box kits.
Athearn and Con Cor cars have long been a staple and can easily be found on Ebay, at train shows and shops that deal in used stuff at bargin prices. Just ask me, I have about 200 of them. But these are the only two I have photos of:
These photos show both ConCor and Athearn cars with the close coupling/diaphragm setup - these will run through a #5 crossover and around 28" radius curves. And on 36" radius, they will run on parallel tracks with 2" track centers. Sheldon
These photos show both ConCor and Athearn cars with the close coupling/diaphragm setup - these will run through a #5 crossover and around 28" radius curves. And on 36" radius, they will run on parallel tracks with 2" track centers.
Sheldon
Dollar for dollar, the Athearn HW and streamlined cars are one of the best values in HO as far as I am concerned.
Jim
I finally got around to getting the first 3D printed interior for these cars. I started out with the Dining Car. Of course since these cars are a bit short, you can't do exact interiors, and I had to use general designs because I didn't find any New Haven interior specs until after I was done. It came earlier today:
Since these cars are intended to run on a modular layout and have to travel to shows, the idea of a one piece interior that will hopefully be durable was a design goal.
So far I am happy. Now I have to figure out the interior lighting, and decide on track power or hiding a battery in one car. Since the cars won't run more than an hour at a tie, batteries may be an option. More learning and figuring out stuff!
Dave
DAVE,
Thanks for the up-date..Those look pretty good..I don't know how far you want to go as far as detail is concerned,,but if you would like to add Table-ware and food,cups,glasses etc. to the tables and counter area,,Preiser,,art # 17220,,for,15.00,,you could probably do four diner's and then some,for the amount of parts that they give..I used them for Bette's diner interior and the results were fantastic,,the cook is even frying eggs on the grill..Check them out!!....They are molded in three colors,that you can paint,or leave as is,white,transparent gray and clear..
Cheers,
Frank
I had not seen that particular Preiser product, thanks. I have found that if Preiser, or JL Innovative Designs makes a detail part it's not worth me designing it for myself. I will probably be getting that item.
dcyale So far I am happy. Now I have to figure out the interior lighting, and decide on track power or hiding a battery in one car. Since the cars won't run more than an hour at a tie, batteries may be an option. More learning and figuring out stuff! Dave
Looking good Dave! That 3D printed interior looks really nice, and certainly proves that this sort of thing can be done very well by that method.
A suggestion re: interior lighting - if you're thinking about a battery-powered option, you could always try Rapido's "Easy Peasy" interior lighting kits:
http://rapidotrains.com/light_ho.html
It's the same lighting units used in their Super Continental line passenger cars. It's a battery-powered LED setup that you just need to mount into the roof, and you're done. The lights can be turned on and off with a magnetic wand (included with the kit). It's available in full-length or shorty versions.
Those light units do work very well (have a nice warm colour to the LEDs, very appropriate for older equipment especially), and though you may be able to rig up something yourself a bit cheaper, the Rapido unit would be a very straightforward option.
-Tim
Another product I was unaware of- thanks. I'll have to measure, but it should fit. The cost might be outweighed by the convenience, and the number of LEDs probably gives a much better light coverage than the three or four that I was thinking of.
I was thinking of a couple AA batteries in the RPO car, maybe with a switch through the bottom, and using RC servo extension wires to run from car to car. In case no one has mentioned them, the RC servo extension wires are cheap, and come with a plug on each end, so you can cut the wire and use it to get low voltage into a building, or from one car to another, and have a way to unplug the wire easily. I got mine on ebay, but a similar product is http://www.amazon.com/Waltzmart-300mm-Servo-Extension-Futaba/dp/B009NP42NY With the third wire removed, and painted black, the wires might look like air hoses (I can hope).
Maybe I can modify the lighting units to eliminate the button batteries so I don't have to open the cars every time I need to replace the batteries, or save me when I forget to change them and having them corrode.
I thought I'd update my progress. I received two more interiors today. First was the observation car:
I also got the sleeper interior:
I have to do some design changes to the coach interior. The part did not print well.
Now I have to break down and get out the paints (and the magna-visor).
http://www.dcyale.com/shapeways/sleep01.jpg
If you don't mind my asking, how much did it cost you to have those made up? I think they are really, really good.
I've got a set of Rivarossi coaches that came with interiors. I painted them and added a number of passengers. I added lighting to the cars as well.
As you can see, even with clear windows, the visibility of interior detailing in passenger cars can be pretty limited. If I were doing a dining car, for example, I would use my computer to print tablecloths with plates and utensils, rather than trying to model them.
On capacitors: It's not as simple as hanging a capacitor across your inputs. You'll probably end up with an electrolytic capacitor, which is polarized and must be wired with the correct polarity. If you're running DC, this will work OK in one direction and then most likely destroy the capacitor in the other. For DCC, you would need to add a bridge rectifier ahead of the lighting circuit, but it will then be direction-independent.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Just in case no one but the OP,caught my suggestion,on Sept,12,,,Preiser Art # 17220,,has all the table-ware,cups,saucers,plates,glass's.bottles and all kinds of food,to put on the plates,in any Diner,Railroad or other,,,,you don't have to try and model them...Just paint to your liking,,molded in Plastic,three different colors..
The interiors cost me between $20 and $25 each to have produced, more than some commercial ones you can get. The material is a nylon powder that is fused one thin layer at a time by a laser, then the unfused powder is cleaned away. It has a slightly rough appearance, and is a little porous, but for a passenger car interior I think it's fine, and it's a lot less than the higher detail material.
But for me part of the enjoyment is designing it myself, and the commercial ones have to be trimmed and modified for the Athearn cars. Of course, I have already noticed I may have to trim a little here and there, and one partition ended up in the middle of a window, but I can cut it and no one will be the wiser.
I have also designed a streamlined vistadome interior, but have not tried to get it printed yet. For some reason Athearn made one in New Haven colors, and I'll add it to the train once in a while just to get the historical purists going. Doing the curved staircase was...well...I guess "a challenge" is the word I better use to stay within forum guidelines.
Based on some inspiration by Doctor Wayne, Dave and some others, here is my current project on the bench. This is an Athearn observation that has had some windows swapped using a donor Athearn Pullman and another observation car. Essentially I made my own NERS-style window inserts. Although I really like Dave's #D printed interiors his wasn't really suited to a typical business car layout so I ordered a Palace Car Co. interior kit instead along with their radio antenna and a refrigerator (for the left-front vestibule). Underneath has a full detailing and an assortment of Cal Scale and Branchline bits. Brake piping, rigging, and uncoupling levers are made from brass wire. The goal is to have it be a contest model NMRA SER convention this year and then go into service as one of the business cars for our club's railroad.
"Athearn Passenger Car Ressurection"
How prophetic...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
gmo1515Based on some inspiration by Doctor Wayne, Dave and some others, here is my current project on the bench.
OK, 5 yr, old topic, that's been going on a lot recently, but, if there is suppose to be a picture here, it's not working.
Mike.
My You Tube
Tried to attach the pictures but apparently it failed. Seems that the only way I can do it is if I have the image hosted somewhere. What does everybody use to get them to attach properly?