Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Want athearn blue box back

23969 views
125 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 9:34 AM

dti406

Larry,

I must have 30 undecorated DW kits in the basement.  but I have decals for most of them and will be assembling, kit bashing, painting and decaling them in the future.

Rick J

When finish-photos please.Big Smile

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
  • 2,538 posts
Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 9:23 AM

Larry,

I must have 30 undecorated DW kits in the basement.  but I have decals for most of them and will be assembling, kit bashing, painting and decaling them in the future.

Rick J

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 8:09 AM

Thanks Rick..

Its hard trying to keep with todays hobby..I plum forgot Athearn had the dies for the DW car.

Even with the reported inaccuracies,I still think they're sharp looking cars and as most know I like boxcars with eye appeal ..Laugh Of course I will pass on extremely inaccurate cars.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
  • 2,538 posts
Posted by dti406 on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 7:55 AM

Larry,

The first one was tooled for Athearn and is relatively new, might have been Genesis before they moved some of the Genesis to RTR.

The second car is the old Details West FGE kit, which has some accuracy problems but not enough that I would not use them.  Walthers makes a similar kit, and it has problems also.

Rick J My 2 Cents

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 7:05 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

So maybe I sohould have said 90% of the current RTR line was once BB or MDC kits.

Sheldon

No problem..I should have been more clearer and said modern cars..

Its getting harder to tell since a lot of the modern BB boxcars have been upgraded to MDC tooling "standards" with the door claws removed and now with metal grabs and stirrups..A far cry from their BB roots.

Seems to be 2 or 3 phases of  modern RTR cars-the early releases which was indeed nothing more then built BB kits,then phase two with upgrades.There could be a phase 3 with a upgraded frame/coupler box and  etched metal crossover above the couplers..I haven't really research that possibility yet.

I do know the modern boxcars has 2 different styles of coupler box and a etched metal crossover..

Some of the older BB and MDC covered hoppers has not been upgrade except for metal wheels.

I have no idea who made these cars before they became RTR and I've got 5 of 'em.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH89177

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH91328

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:34 AM

BRAKIE

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

90% of the current Ready to Roll line were once offered as Blue Box kits.

Sheldon

Since I have around 60 Athearn RTR cars I don't think 90% BB is very accurate.

Maybe 20% while the other 70% is upgraded MDC cars with metal grabs,metal wheels and stirrups or newly tooled cars while 10% would be the MDC cars that hasn't been upgraded such as the 52' mill gon,bulkhead flat,the 60' flat and several other cars.

 

 

Larry, I will once again remind you that it depends on the era modeled. A review of the entire selection of recently available RTR includes most every BB car.

A few BB cars are totaly retired, in favor of newer tooling for MDC, and some have been upgraded a lot, some only a little.

In addition to most every BB car, the line does include a large portion of the MDC line as well, many of them also once offered as kits.

I have hundeds of BB kit cars, and hundreds of new RTR cars, most match up exactly - all the 40' reefers, wood and steel sided, 50' flat cars with vans, 34' hoppers, 40' flat cars, all the BB 40' tank cars, etc, etc.

These may not be what you are buying, but they are in the line and just like they were as BB kits.

So maybe I sohould have said 90% of the current RTR line was once BB or MDC kits.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:02 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

90% of the current Ready to Roll line were once offered as Blue Box kits.

Sheldon

Since I have around 60 Athearn RTR cars I don't think 90% BB is very accurate.

Maybe 20% while the other 70% is upgraded MDC cars with metal grabs,metal wheels and stirrups or newly tooled cars while 10% would be the MDC cars that hasn't been upgraded such as the 52' mill gon,bulkhead flat,the 60' flat and several other cars.

 

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, February 4, 2013 9:13 PM

BerkshireSteam

Soo, what you are all saying, is I need to save moneys so I can hit up the Tittletown Train show AND the Madtown model train show.

So just for a heads up what all car types did BB make?

90% of the current Ready to Roll line were once offered as Blue Box kits.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, February 4, 2013 9:06 PM

I've seen dealers like that as well..

Most the signs I seen has large lettering that would do CSX proud.. 

Our train show is in April and I suspect I'll see the same sign for the same kits as I did the last two years.

I do look through the used Bev-Bel/Athearn cars and kits for odd ball short line cars..

That's how I found this little Jewel for $3.00 with KDs..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, February 4, 2013 4:25 PM

BRAKIE

Jim,I don't to sound harsh but,the majority of the folks that still want the BB don't attend train shows because :

1.Its takes time away from the TV.

2.They double time through the show and miss the 3/$10.00 prices on the BB kits and the hundreds of used BB cars that sell between $3.50-5.00 most with KDs.

I seen BB kits that has boxes so worn from the dealer packing and unpacking them I must ask where are the buyers for these kits?

But,then there's always  they can't let go of the wife's hand long enough to attend or momma won't let 'em go which ever comes first.Stick out tongue Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Fer sure!  Laugh

You couldn't swing a cat at the Timonium show without hitting a pile of low priced kits!

Speaking of worn boxes, there is a dealer who comes to the various show in this area who has boxes and boxes of HO rolling stock which are the most worn I ever saw.  I was at one show with my wife and was walking by the "worn box" vendor (I'd seen this display before several times) and I commented on the high prices on the boxes and how worn the boxes were, drawing the conclusion as to why the rolling stock was still unsold and getting more worn every month.  Then the vender butted in on the conversation saying I was wrong, and the prices were actually not high - all the while I was still talking to my wife and trying to put some distance between us and the uninvited interloper.   I thought later if that vendor had some manners and common sense, he would:

 #1, not offend the customer buy telling him he was wrong (remember rule number 1: "the customer is always right!" and

#2, he would not play games with the prices by leaving the high prices on the boxes forcing the customer to look at his signs and figure things out. 

My guess is, if this vendor would take a weekend and reprice the individual rolling stock boxes to make it CLEAR what the discount prices was, he would have gotten rid of alot of that stuff months or years ago, instead he keeps carting it around and they look the most worn I've ever seen.  If you take the time to figure out his actual prices, the much of the stuff is a decent deal, but most people are browsing, see the high price on the box, see how worn it is and draw the same false conclusion I did and don't try to figure out the price game.  I don't think I've ever bought anything he has, although the last time I think he had stuff I might get, 'cept I'm still mad at the way he was rude to me a year ago, I kinda feel like he burned his bridges with me!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Under The Streets of Los Angeles
  • 1,150 posts
Posted by Metro Red Line on Monday, February 4, 2013 5:10 AM

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

Well, you've got two options:

1. Train shows/Swao Meets/eBay

2. Time Machine

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,257 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, February 4, 2013 2:36 AM

BerkshireSteam

Soo, what you are all saying, is I need to save moneys so I can hit up the Tittletown Train show AND the Madtown model train show.

So just for a heads up what all car types did BB make?

Gidday, Courtesy of the Hoseeker site..........

http://hoseeker.net/athearn.htm

Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: good ole WI
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by BerkshireSteam on Sunday, February 3, 2013 11:24 PM

Soo, what you are all saying, is I need to save moneys so I can hit up the Tittletown Train show AND the Madtown model train show.

So just for a heads up what all car types did BB make?

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: California & Maine
  • 3,848 posts
Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, February 3, 2013 9:00 PM

Back in the late 50's and early 60's, Athearn did sell the whole BB line both RTR and as kits. Even then the price difference was very small, typically 1.99 for the kit, 2.25 RTR.

 Using 1959 as the base, the equivalent prices today would be $15.70 for the kit, $17.75 for RTR and that's not accounting for any improvements that have occurred in the last 54 years.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, February 3, 2013 8:11 PM

Well here is the truth no body will talk about,

Market for easy kits or not, if Athearn was to produce BB kits today, with the improvements they have added to the Ready to Roll line, they would be basically the same price as the RTR line is now.

Back in the late 50's and early 60's, Athearn did sell the whole BB line both RTR and as kits. Even then the price difference was very small, typically 1.99 for the kit, 2.25 RTR.

Do to a number of factors we are not allowed to discuss on this forum, it is unlikely that Athearn could produce the kits measurably cheaper than the current RTR line, even if there was a market.

So stop crying and be glad we have the wide choice of products we do.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,905 posts
Posted by csxns on Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:36 PM

The one BB Kits that i have not seen at shows is the two crane boom tenders and the crane itself.

Russell

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, February 3, 2013 12:32 PM

Jim,I don't to sound harsh but,the majority of the folks that still want the BB don't attend train shows because :

1.Its takes time away from the TV.

2.They double time through the show and miss the 3/$10.00 prices on the BB kits and the hundreds of used BB cars that sell between $3.50-5.00 most with KDs.

I seen BB kits that has boxes so worn from the dealer packing and unpacking them I must ask where are the buyers for these kits?

But,then there's always  they can't let go of the wife's hand long enough to attend or momma won't let 'em go which ever comes first.Stick out tongue Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, February 3, 2013 10:20 AM

I realize one of the things people are unhappy about is that since Athearn isn't producing blue box kits, there isn't fresh stock on many hobby shop shelves.  But what they don't realize is there is a MASSIVE quantity of Athearn blue box and other similar level kits out there (Accurail, MDC, FR, Walthers, etc) that manufacturers there isn't the demand there for Athearn to make more and make a profit.

I just got back from the Saturday Timonium show north of Balitmore Maryland.  This show was packed to the roof with kits of all kinds including Athearn blue box, Proto 2000 kits, MDC, Walthers, you name it - and MANY priced in the $4-10 range.  In fact at this show there were several sources where you could get nicely detailed RTR Intermountain, Atlas, ER and other HO rolling stock for $8-12 prices!!!  But I digress!

The point is, for everyone lamenting the loss of blue box kits, there is no shortage, there is an abundance!  the problem mainly is the distribution and availability of these - and they are avaible in spades.  In the present day, people need to learn how to access this abundance of kits.  Yes, Ebay has them, but train shows very much do...  People who don't have access to large train shows may need to get help from those who do, or join HO Interchange and watch the offerings - lots of kits come up there for decent prices.

Really if anything needed to be stickied, it would be topic like this to "ground" the people who "think" there is a crisis of lack of kits or bb kits.  There is NOT a crisis, or a lack.  You just need to change with the times and get access - there is an old saying, where there is a will, there is a way.  Those who feel a pang of nostagia for the olden days can still feed that nostalgia if they put a some effort forth.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • 1,047 posts
Posted by betamax on Sunday, February 3, 2013 6:41 AM

Just give it up.  Athearn has made a business decision based on their customer's demand for the blue box kits and they found the demand just wasn't there.

Remember, Athearn's customer base is the retailer, not the end user.  When the average Athearn customer has a ton of these kits and they are not moving, they are not going to order more. Having stock that sits for years is not what they want. Until they move a substantial amount of dead stock, they have no incentive to order more, nor do they want more kits that are just going to collect dust for another year. 

If the hobby shop customers have no interest in what is on the shelf, ordering new kits probably won't change that either.

Athearn found that the cost of the kits didn't justify continuing them, especially when they are just not selling. It is cheaper for them to retool for ready to run product, which their customers want on their shelves.

So just give it up.  They are not coming back.  If you really need one, haunt the train shows.  There are often lots of them doing the circuit, the wear on the box indicates how often they've been handled.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, February 3, 2013 5:29 AM

alexstan
I did a few Athearn BB kits a few years back, loved them, Wish they were back too.

Athearn has stated several times on  Face Book   BB car kits sales was down 80%..How long do you think Athearn could stay in business with 80% in  lost sales?

Frankly I don't miss 'em..I built hundreds over the years and the majority required straightening the frame,floor or weight so the couplers would be at the correct height..

 

 

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Victor Harbor, South Australia
  • 362 posts
Posted by alexstan on Sunday, February 3, 2013 4:11 AM
I did a few Athearn BB kits a few years back, loved them, Wish they were back too.

Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Sunday, February 3, 2013 12:03 AM

Schuylkill and Susquehanna
Ever try putting together a "Blueprint Series" boxcar?  It's a real pain to get all those separate grab iron parts on, and they're PLASTIC, not brass, so they break really easily.  The "Yardmasters Series" kits are better, but even though they have cast-on details, you still have to assemble the car ends, roof, and roofwalk!  It takes about 30-40 min to assemble one of those kits, when with BBs you could get the car running and up to standards in 10-15 min.

Yes, I have put Blueprint Series cars together...........decorated and some that I've painted/decaled.  They are not that difficult.  And I'm not certain where all the it's plastic and breaks easy complaints come from.  Certainly these cars are more fragile than the Blue Box cars, but I handle my cars with care.  I've seen in some posts where the posters show how they store their cars.  Piled on top of each other in boxes.  If you're going to do that, then you really need durable equipment.  Might as well put trucks and couplers on a length of 2 X 3 and draw on the ladders, doors, and grabs.

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 13 posts
Posted by NOPB2013 on Saturday, February 2, 2013 9:39 PM

I agree, the blue box kits are what I grew up on. There is nothing like taking a bb kit and making it your own, especially the undecorated ones. I like putting them together and detailing them, the rtr are nice, but I like to say i built it, painted it, decaled it and weathered it.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:35 PM

I doubt that Athearn will ever release the BB kits again, since some people have been told by Athearn employees they were losing money on them.

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • From: PA
  • 481 posts
Posted by Schuylkill and Susquehanna on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:40 PM

I miss the BB kits...  Ever try putting together a "Blueprint Series" boxcar?  It's a real pain to get all those separate grab iron parts on, and they're PLASTIC, not brass, so they break really easily.  The "Yardmasters Series" kits are better, but even though they have cast-on details, you still have to assemble the car ends, roof, and roofwalk!  It takes about 30-40 min to assemble one of those kits, when with BBs you could get the car running and up to standards in 10-15 min.

In addition, I don't want to spend any more on cars than I have to (I'm on a budget), so a $9.95 BB beats a $10.98 Accurail kit any day.  In addition, when weathered and viewed in mass, I would say that they look about as good as a string of Atlas RTRs.

I focus on OPERATIONS, and BBs are cheap, look decent, and run reliably.  From an operational and practical standpoint, BBs are just as good as the RTRs.  In addition, though Exactrail cars may look superb, it just isn't possible to make a fleet of 50 to 100 cars and have them be Exactrail - the cost would be phenomenal!

Rather than spending $50 per freight car, I would rather spend $10 on a kit and spend the money I saved on more cars or a new loco.

 

Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:19 PM

Geared Steam

maxman
They actually had a bunch of them, so I passed the info along.  I suspect that an order will be placed within the next day or two.

So he will accept phone orders then? That's good news. 

He built his inventory by (unfortunately) buying the inventory of LHS's that were wanting to close down in the area. The positve side of this is he has a lot of items that are out of production, and everything is on the shelves in order and in the open. I found several old MDC 3-1 kits there, I paid more the the MSRP ($5.00 Big Smile) but the price was reasonable. 

I can't buy locos from him though, all are MSRP, and he won't come off them much. 

The offer still stands if you or your friend need assistance. 

Thanks for the offer.  If my clubmate has a problem I'll let you know.  Concerning phone orders, that has yet to be determined.  I did ask him what he charged for shipping, and he told me shipping would be whatever it cost.  So from that conversation I'm assuming he'll accept a phone order, but then I suppose everyone knows what happens when one assumes.  I'll let you know what happens.
 
Thanks
  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Big Blackfoot River
  • 2,788 posts
Posted by Geared Steam on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:47 PM

maxman
They actually had a bunch of them, so I passed the info along.  I suspect that an order will be placed within the next day or two.

So he will accept phone orders then? That's good news. 

He built his inventory by (unfortunately) buying the inventory of LHS's that were wanting to close down in the area. The positve side of this is he has a lot of items that are out of production, and everything is on the shelves in order and in the open. I found several old MDC 3-1 kits there, I paid more the the MSRP ($5.00 Big Smile) but the price was reasonable. 

I can't buy locos from him though, all are MSRP, and he won't come off them much. 

The offer still stands if you or your friend need assistance. 

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:32 PM

Geared Steam

maxman
I don't now why they pay to list a website if it doesn't work.

I agree, I ask him all of the time to sell over the internet. He is 70% RCC, but has a great inventory of MRR items, if you wish I will ask him if he would consider taking phone orders and shipping,

Edit: Is there a certain kit(s) you are looking for?

 
Hi, Geared.  Thanks for the offer to help.  However, I called down there this morning and spoke to the nice gentleman.  A member of the club was looking for some Athearn 50 foot gons, roadname not important, which he wants to bash into something else.  I had the Athearn numbers, so it didn't take him long to look.  They actually had a bunch of them, so I passed the info along.  I suspect that an order will be placed within the next day or two.
 
I don't know what the original price of the kits were, but the price I was quoted seemed reasonable considering that these kits are "rare and unusual", as I was told by another guy who sells Champ decals at $5.00 a set.
 
Oh, and concerning the website, I asked him about that.  He told me that he took it down to "work on it".  Not sure exactly what that means.
 
Thanks again.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Whitby, ON
  • 2,594 posts
Posted by CP5415 on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:23 PM

Dave,

If you ever decide to want to let those BB kits go, private message me & I'll roll on down the highway n pick them up!

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Big Blackfoot River
  • 2,788 posts
Posted by Geared Steam on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:53 PM

maxman
I don't now why they pay to list a website if it doesn't work.

I agree, I ask him all of the time to sell over the internet. He is 70% RCC, but has a great inventory of MRR items, if you wish I will ask him if he would consider taking phone orders and shipping, if not, I will attempt to get a list of BB kits and email them to you, if there is anything you want I can pick them up and mail them to you. Let me know (PM) if either way, he is not far from work and many times I go there at lunch to escape. Big Smile

Edit: Is there a certain kit(s) you are looking for?

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:43 AM

Geared Steam

Trends and Trains

7143 Mansfield Rd

Shreveport, LA 71108
ph: 318-671-8896
fax: 318-671-8897

Geared, thanks for the info.  I saw that listing in MR.  I don't now why they pay to list a website if it doesn't work.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:34 AM

Most of my freight cars back in the 80's were Athearn blue box. They were cheap and easy to put together and with a little tweaking rolled very well even with plastic wheels. The balance of my rolling stock was Bachmann, Tyco, AHM, Walthers, Varney, Life-Like, Roundhouse/MDC. I currently have one all Athearn loco (KCS SW1500) and eleven others that are variety of parts including Athearn, all from blue boxes. Right now there are eight Athearn BB freight cars on the layout and many more on the shelf. I buy more when I can find ones that I like at an affordable price or get junk ones for next to nothing and rebuild them. You'd be surprised what some people call junk. With a little work they're back in service again. I try to avoid the detail-laden RTR models. Too many things that can get broken.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:12 PM

A search on eBay for kit in Athearn turns up 1371 listings.  Looking at the first 100 listings, most have no bids and are priced higher than train shows.

If you're anywhere near Timonium Md, the GSMTS is this coming weekend, 2-3 Feb 2013.  Lots of BB at the last one in Oct and I expect they'll there again.

Given how many are still left after 4 years, I'd say discontinuing kits was the correct business decision.

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Potomac Yard
  • 2,767 posts
Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:11 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

NittanyLion

I have little or no interest in assembling railcars.  I'd much rather devote my modelling time to other facets, like structures and such, than glue boxcar body on to frame, screw on trucks.  Plus the BBs are downright crude looking by most standards and don't really fit my era anyhow.  Walthers, Atlas, Intermountain, and Exactrail fit better.

All generalizations are false.

So you are a diorama builder who just happens to included trains in your scenes - that's OK, it is a diverse hobby.

But a complete examination of the Athearn product line, both current RTR and the Blue Box and Roundhouse kits most of them came from, actually covers quite a wide range of prototypes and eras.

Agreed, some are more detailed than others, some are some what generic, but again, all your generalizations regarding them can be proven wrong by more than one example.

In fact, a great number of them require little or no glue, and virtually none require glue to hold the body to the frame. And some of the newer tooled items have exceptional detail.

You have no interest in older prototypes, I have no interest in prototypes past 1954.

DISCLAIMER - I buy it all - Athearn RTR and old Blue Box kits, current "high end", "high detail" RTR like Intermountain, Fox Valley, Kadee, etc,etc, and lots of craftsman kits - old and new. So I have no particular agenda supporting one type of rolling stock over the other.

Sheldon

 

I don't disagree with anything you said.  I was merely stating my own reasons for not missing the old BB kits.  I do miss the BB locomotives though.

And, for the record, I'm not sure I ever glued most of my old BBs together back in the day.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:03 PM

NittanyLion

I have little or no interest in assembling railcars.  I'd much rather devote my modelling time to other facets, like structures and such, than glue boxcar body on to frame, screw on trucks.  Plus the BBs are downright crude looking by most standards and don't really fit my era anyhow.  Walthers, Atlas, Intermountain, and Exactrail fit better.

All generalizations are false.

So you are a diorama builder who just happens to included trains in your scenes - that's OK, it is a diverse hobby.

But a complete examination of the Athearn product line, both current RTR and the Blue Box and Roundhouse kits most of them came from, actually covers quite a wide range of prototypes and eras.

Agreed, some are more detailed than others, some are some what generic, but again, all your generalizations regarding them can be proven wrong by more than one example.

In fact, a great number of them require little or no glue, and virtually none require glue to hold the body to the frame. And some of the newer tooled items have exceptional detail.

You have no interest in older prototypes, I have no interest in prototypes past 1954.

DISCLAIMER - I buy it all - Athearn RTR and old Blue Box kits, current "high end", "high detail" RTR like Intermountain, Fox Valley, Kadee, etc,etc, and lots of craftsman kits - old and new. So I have no particular agenda supporting one type of rolling stock over the other.

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Potomac Yard
  • 2,767 posts
Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:42 PM

I have little or no interest in assembling railcars.  I'd much rather devote my modelling time to other facets, like structures and such, than glue boxcar body on to frame, screw on trucks.  Plus the BBs are downright crude looking by most standards and don't really fit my era anyhow.  Walthers, Atlas, Intermountain, and Exactrail fit better.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:55 PM

Hi,

The Athearn BB kits and locos were the backbone of the hobby, along with Atlas, MRC, and a few others.   The value and quality of their product was absolutely outstanding.

Folks today tend to want instant gratification, and interest in "building it yourself" is just not what it was.   Personally I think that is a shame, for to me that was what the hobby was all about.   But, its a different world today, and "time marches on...."

But the kits are still available - if only one is patient and persistant.   Whatever you want will sooner or later come up on Ebay. 

Why do I say that?    Well, in the late '90s and early 2000s, I amassed an Athearn inventory of well over 500 pieces.   Then, in the last 4 years I've sold over 250.  Lots of other folks have done the same.

Note to the powers that be........  I'm not selling any Athearn stuff now (but did in December), so my comments should not be considered "advertising".............

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,264 posts
Posted by CAZEPHYR on Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:35 PM

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

Keith

As you must know, they are gone forever according to Athearn.   If you want a bunch of those cars both built and unbuild, email me with a PM.  I have so many purchased between 1975 and 1990 that are in the box and were never used. 

CZ

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:46 PM

jeffrey-wimberly

csxns

Jeff,you do not want anything like that do ya.

I used to buy two or three every time I went to the LHS. Now I get them from Ebay when I the money for it. I get the ones I like on Buy It Now with free shipping if I think the price is good. Some of those guys must think they have gold.

You notice that too?

Maybe they are buying those 3/$10.00 BB kits I see at most train shows and asking ridiculous prices on e-bay?

I see used Athearn cars with KDs  priced between $3.00-5.00 at just about every train show I have attended.

I admit the last Athearn BB kits I bought was two undecs back in '07.I just needed t parts and the price was right 2/$7.00..I still have the bodies weights and frame..I doubt if I will ever buy the needed trucks and coulper boxes and build them.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • 2,124 posts
Posted by fec153 on Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:29 PM

I love BB kits. I don't have the steady hands nor fingers to add grab irons  and can't afford RTR cars. As for craftsman kits, no way.

Flip

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:22 PM

csxns

Jeff,you do not want anything like that do ya.

I used to buy two or three every time I went to the LHS. Now I get them from Ebay when I the money for it. I get the ones I like on Buy It Now with free shipping if I think the price is good. Some of those guys must think they have gold.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,905 posts
Posted by csxns on Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:10 PM

Jeff,you do not want anything like that do ya.

Russell

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:07 PM

BRAKIE
Where are all the buyers that wants these kits back?

Hey, over here! In the corner.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:00 AM
Susquehanna and Southern
Somebody should tell Athearn about this thread!  70-some posts might convince them to bring Blue Box back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Athearn has stated time and again BB kit sales was down 80%...
And in that light was there anybody really buying those kits?
 
I think not since there are still thousands available on e-Bay and at train shows and some of those boxes has worn marks from being unpacked and repack.
 
Where are all the buyers that wants these kits back?

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Big Blackfoot River
  • 2,788 posts
Posted by Geared Steam on Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:44 AM

Susquehanna and Southern
Somebody should tell Athearn about this thread!  70-some posts might convince them to bring Blue Box back.

This decision isn't driven by post counts, it's driven by profits, like everything else in the world. 

Ebay and train shows is your source for those of you longing for blue box, myself I miss Roundhouse kits, but now look at Tichy, Accurail and others for my kits. 

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Whitby, ON
  • 2,594 posts
Posted by CP5415 on Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:44 AM

Ya but the ones that want them back are the ones that enjoy putting them together.

I had a lot of fun watching/helping Liam put together his first BB kit. He'd get frustrated putting together a Branchline or Proto kit.

I have several "5800" BB series 5344 boxcar kits I haven't built yet. I wish Athearn would have continued with these instead of RTR. Separate applied grab irons & ladders, they're a brilliant kit.

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • From: PA
  • 481 posts
Posted by Schuylkill and Susquehanna on Thursday, January 24, 2013 5:38 PM

I want Blue Box back too.  A few years ago you could still get them, but now they can only be found at train shows.  For $10 you could get a kit that was easy to put together, fool-proof, and looked great after being weathered.

RTR can be a pain since to weather it or modify the weight, etc. you need to pull the whole thing apart and hope that you don't break anything.  Besides, you saved about $5 by putting it together yourself.

Accurail is great, but most boxcar kits are pretty much the same as Blue Box from the running boards up, but they cost a few bucks more than the BBs used to!  Blue Box engines were pretty good too...

Somebody should tell Athearn about this thread!  70-some posts might convince them to bring Blue Box back.

 

Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Saskatchewan
  • 2,201 posts
Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:59 AM

Whistling

Check out M.B.Kliens right now,

Pretty great sale on Bowser kits

Johnboy out........................

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Posted by HaroldA on Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:32 AM

I picked up a few at the NMRA convention in Grand Rapids last summer.  There were fun, but Accurail is about the same thing in my book.  I do appreciate the level of detail available now in some higher priced offerings but can only afford one at a time as opposed to 4 at a time.

As these things go, a blue box in mint condition is probably worth more than what it contains.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Big Blackfoot River
  • 2,788 posts
Posted by Geared Steam on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 6:33 PM

Trends and Trains

7143 Mansfield Rd

Shreveport, LA 71108
ph: 318-671-8896
fax: 318-671-8897


No retail website

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:30 PM

Run Eight
A dealer in the third Largest City in Louisiana has a considerable number (very large inventory) of Athearn Blue Box, MDC Roundhouse and Athearn Bev-Bel.

'

How about just posting the information?  I don't see any listing called "dealers" in the February MR.  There is only one listing for Louisiana under "retailers", and the web address given doesn't seem to be working for me.

Thanks

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • 176 posts
Posted by Run Eight on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 4:01 PM

A dealer in the third Largest City in Louisiana has a considerable number (very large inventory) of Athearn Blue Box, MDC Roundhouse and Athearn Bev-Bel.

Most of the Blue Box in stock was Made in China, but does have a number Made in U.S. of A.

His ad is in the back of the current MR under dealers.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:41 PM

IRONROOSTER

And MDC kits are still plentiful as well.  I see both lines frequently under $10 and occasionally as cheap as $5.

I've seen BB kits  $3/100.00,$4.00 used with KDs.I've seen the MDC kits $3/12.00 and $5.00 used with KD.

Then there's still the old English kits,Bev-Bel/Athearn,Rail Runner,CM Shops and other kit lines.

No wonder Athearn couldn't sell them.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:12 PM

riogrande5761

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

In my experience, there still seems to be an aweful lot of unused, unsold, unbuilt stock out there at train shows and different vendors.  Athearn reported they weren't selling enough to justify production anymore and I expect the availability out there will have to diminish significantly before Athearn might consider rerunning kits again.

Long story short, you don't have to miss Athearn blue box really, just get out to a good sized train show in your area and fill your bags and you'll be good for a while.

And MDC kits are still plentiful as well.  I see both lines frequently under $10 and occasionally as cheap as $5.

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:28 PM

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

In my experience, there still seems to be an aweful lot of unused, unsold, unbuilt stock out there at train shows and different vendors.  Athearn reported they weren't selling enough to justify production anymore and I expect the availability out there will have to diminish significantly before Athearn might consider rerunning kits again.

Long story short, you don't have to miss Athearn blue box really, just get out to a good sized train show in your area and fill your bags and you'll be good for a while.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • From: Kokomo, Indiana
  • 1,463 posts
Posted by emdmike on Saturday, November 3, 2012 11:07 AM

I am another one that despises the RTR stuff, most have way to fragile extra details. Our local modeling community is based around operation and interchange, so cars swap homes and may visit 1-3 layouts before returning to the home layout.  All those extra details get easily broken and most cannot be glued due to the type of flexable plastic used.  The old BB kits, MDC, Bowser ect are robust enough to handle being taking to other layouts ect, but still realisitic enough to my eyes and most others localy.  My whole layout is built around the "old school" modeling style, and by old school I mean, BB kits, wood craftsman kits, Tenshodo brass diesels and older kit built structures.  The tables of older kits and trains at shows are the ones I stop at.  I skip the dealers with the new stuff unless I need glue, can motors, Kaydee's ect.  I grew up with BB kits and locomotives, graduated to brass and craftsman kits in my teens and have never moved to RTR, my brass is the closest to RTR I have.  The work assembling the kits, espicialy the wood kits, is where my enjoyment comes from.  Espicialy during the long winter months when there is nothing else to do.  I would rather build a kit, then surf the net.   I love Accurail's kits, have several in the que to build yet.  I cant wait for the next couple of shows to restock my winter kit supply.  I also have another Tenshodo diesel on the way to tune up for layout duty.  For those that love BB kits or just older kits in general, pick up several copies of the older MRR or Model Rail Craftsman magazines, loads of ads to look at, both kits and brass to remind us what to look for at that next show!   Cheers  Mike

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:40 AM

jeffrey-wimberly

BRAKIE
Jeff,You may find this interesting..Athearn releases far more of their former MDC cars then the old  former BB cars..

I know. The last few I've gotten have the MDC style coupler pockets with the plastic covers.

This actually depends a great deal on the prototype era in question.

Many of the more modern prototypes in the Athearn RTR line are MDC tooling.

But a great many Athearn BB items remain in the RTR line - I posted a list in thread some time back, but here are a few:

All the 40' tank cars, 40' and 50' flat cars, 50' piggy back cars, the whole passenger car line, 200 ton crane (with an MDC tender added), all the cabooses, with the MDC Northeastern also added, the 40' stock car, 34' hoppers, 40' reefers - wood and steel, 40' quad hoppers, pickel cars, and more.

It is mainly in the area of more modern prototypes that the MDC tooling as replaced BB tooling. Your era of modeling is what will effect what precentage of your Athearn RTR purchases are MDC or BB tooling.

I model the 50's, many to most of the Athearn RTR of that prototype era are still BB. Covered hoppers, many (but not all) of the box cars of all eras, most all of the more modern stuff are MDC.

I think a detailed accounting would find lots of BB items - some revised and improved - and that the lines were very effectively intergrated to provide the best queality models at the lowest prices.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: good ole WI
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by BerkshireSteam on Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:00 AM

Have gotten a few Accurail kits and liked them. Haven't detailed them, just built them, added Kadee couplers and fine scale wheels. I really liked them and although I plan to build a small N scale layout at home and use R-T-R cars in HO at the club, I want to get some more kits. The LHS has lots of Accurail kits so I should be good. I will probably get a few and at first and do some at a 'good-enough' level and one finely detailed with things like wire grabs, etched watch ways, fine scale wheels and scale couplers, and weathering. I think some of my first cars will be some single-sheathed outside braced box cars. I have an Atlas MILW one (with opening doors Dunce ) and it's one of my favorite cars.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:31 PM

BRAKIE
Jeff,You may find this interesting..Athearn releases far more of their former MDC cars then the old  former BB cars..

I know. The last few I've gotten have the MDC style coupler pockets with the plastic covers.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:37 PM

jeffrey-wimberly

cv_acr
Actually the saddest thing about the demise of the Blue-Box line is that it's not really gone; most of that old grossly inaccurate tooling still lives on in the RTR line.

I agree. Why sell it cheap in kit form when it can be sold pre-assembled with some details added for a higher profit. I've seen some that are just pre-assembled BB kits with no details added.

Jeff,You may find this interesting..Athearn releases far more of their former MDC cars then the old  former BB cars..

These old MDC kits has been vastly improved..

I gotta agree the BB cars left  a lot to be desired for those that wants accuracy but,for many of us they were our first choice of cars..

Even the Accurail kits have a issue-the gap in the door.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Whitby, ON
  • 2,594 posts
Posted by CP5415 on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:48 AM

The following pictures are the reason why I like kits, plain simple kits! Liam did this a few years ago. He was 5.

While I like RTR, it doesn't teach boys how to build things.

Thankfully Accurail is still around & making kits.

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:06 AM

cv_acr
Actually the saddest thing about the demise of the Blue-Box line is that it's not really gone; most of that old grossly inaccurate tooling still lives on in the RTR line.

I agree. Why sell it cheap in kit form when it can be sold pre-assembled with some details added for a higher profit. I've seen some that are just pre-assembled BB kits with no details added.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Canada
  • 1,820 posts
Posted by cv_acr on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:01 AM

Don't forget the old 50' gondola as well. Which also was based on no known real life car, and was too short (the standard size for a mill gondola was 52', not 50'). I think their passenger equipment was pretty generic as well.

Actually the saddest thing about the demise of the Blue-Box line is that it's not really gone; most of that old grossly inaccurate tooling still lives on in the RTR line.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: eastern Nebraska
  • 219 posts
Posted by binder001 on Monday, October 22, 2012 11:13 AM

As a long-time consumer I sure don't miss the "blue line" at all!  Yes they were great for beginners, but so are Accurail cars.  They were cheap (for the time) but so were other kits.  What I grew to detest about the "blue line" was the lack of growth.  In the "good old days" Uncle Irv gave us ONE type of 40-ft. boxcar that was a bad car, (off prototype, with HUGE door tracks and claws) ,ONE type of single dome tank car (that was really incorrect because it was his three-dome car with two domes removed), ONE type of Railbox car, etc, etc.  His stock car was a decent rendition of a UP car but they reversed the direction of the roof panels, in fact almost ALL the boxcars/reefers/stockcars had their underframe details mirror-imaged.  The good old days weren't always so good.  One doesn't need to nit pick every detail, but one should at least make an effort to have the cars look something like thoe cars we see on the rails, otherwise we should just paint up some pine blocks on wheels for our freight trains.  Yes, the costs are higher but the material we are getting is better by wide margin.. 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, October 22, 2012 10:01 AM

I'd like to do kit cars, I'd have to learn but that's the fun part. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Monday, October 22, 2012 9:58 AM

BRAKIE

MBK has a on going sale on car kits yet there's no buyers..I see BB and MDC cars passed by at train shows.

I suspect the hobby started growing up when Life Like introduce the highly detailed P2K line and it was a matter of course when accurate RTR cars would be produce. 

Not true, I just bought two accurail kits from MB Klien!

The more detailed P2K line, were kits when they first came out and stayed kits until Walthers bought the line from Life Like and that's your current spin?  The hobby is growing up?  What your saying is mature adults don't build kits?

I see it as people may lack the abilitys it takes to assemble kits; or, they have a lack of desire.  Model Railroaders are showing what they want, by what they buy.  However, because the majority want RTR, doesn't mean that the trend necessarily reflects what we all want!  I get enjoyment from building models.  If the building aspect of the hobby were to disappear, my interest in this hobby would disappear! 

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:14 PM

BRAKIE
Guys,I think thousands of us still model good enough/close enough but,we also seized the opportunity to have prototypical correct cars and locomotives..I still use my BB cars at the club and my RTR cars at home.

There's still a place for  less detailed cars in our great hobby and thankfully those are available from several manufacturers at reasonable prices.

Yep!  I have a wide range of models which include bluebox Athearn, MDC kits, Accurail kits, E&C Shops kits, Stewart Kits, as well as many of the newer RTR Athearn, Genesis, Intermountain, Atlas and ExactRail cars.  Many of them are "good enough" cars, but most are fairly close matches to cars that match my era - some are stand-ins and some are fairly accurate models of prototypes.

You know I like my RTR cars which are copies of some much needed prototypes, but next weekend I plan on going to the Timonium train show and I have a wishlist of train cars I will be looking for.  That wish list includes some RTR models and some kits (e.g. Walthers HO FEG 50' UP box car).  The Accurail kits I own are all the CF4600 covered hopper and autoracks, but I do want to pick up some of the boxcars if I can find some which good stand-in's for late 60's and 70's era bridge traffic on the Rio Grande.  I'm not put off by molded on details if the car itself is a reasonable stand in.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:56 PM

After reading some of the posts about the level of detail on the BB's, its interesting to see what bothers some and not others.

Non road specific details never bothered me, but dimensional inaccuracies do.  Some of the 50ft BB (and MDC) boxcars are 1 scale foot too wide.  Not a big deal until it runs next to an accurate width boxcar are scrapes a loading dock.  This width also carries through to some of the RTR models also, so it isn't a BB issue.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:55 PM

riogrande5761

IRONROOSTER
Somewhere along the way the hobby has been come more critical and serious.  At least in the hobby press, where there seems to be more emphasis on prototype modeling.  I admit, I have moved in that direction myself. 

Paul

Critial and serious in a good way - or to rephrase it, the industry has responded to a demand for more prototypical models.  I am extremely tickled that Athearn has released all of the NICE PC&F box cars for SP, Evergreen and other names.

Guys,I think thousands of us still model good enough/close enough but,we also seized the opportunity to have prototypical correct cars and locomotives..I still use my BB cars at the club and my RTR cars at home.

There's still a place for  less detailed cars in our great hobby and thankfully those are available from several manufacturers at reasonable prices.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:35 PM

IRONROOSTER
Somewhere along the way the hobby has been come more critical and serious.  At least in the hobby press, where there seems to be more emphasis on prototype modeling.  I admit, I have moved in that direction myself. 

Paul

Critial and serious in a good way - or to rephrase it, the industry has responded to a demand for more prototypical models.  I am extremely tickled that Athearn has released all of the NICE PC&F box cars for SP, Evergreen and other names.

cedarwoodron
When I hear other modeler's say that they don't have the time to build kits, it calls to mind the "I want it now" immediate gratification urge of the present generation of youth.

Well, here is a little food for thought.  I'm old fashioned too, but I also am also busy trying to make ends meet in an expensive to live area and don't have a lot of time ... maybe when I retire ... but that will be a few years yet..  I also know that we often want more models than we have time to build, and in the olden days the better quality models were nearly all kits so we tended to build up a backlog of kits waiting to be built - thats so true for me that I've decided to rationalize my collection and sell off a portion of my unbuilt kits because I know I have more than I have time to build.  Thats true for many of us, even John Armstrong, the dean of layout planning, acknowledged this in one of his books I read.

 Maybe I'm old fashioned- no wait, I AM old fashioned, but it personally gives me great satisfaction to take several days to carefully plan and assemble a BB kit. I say plan, because I am always doing something-- no matter how minor- to improve them, be it metal wheels and some weathering, etc. They may not be the super detailed RTRs of today, but for over 40 years, they were a mainstay of the hobby, giving life to many layouts. I always thought a hobby was something to relax with- ease ones blood pressure, get away from the daily routine. But it seems less like a hobby and more like a task, when everything is RTR and you just plug and play to get a layout going. Now, as I enter the world of DCC this fall, I am sure I will find a new form of "plan and assemble" as I convert engines and establish programming for them, but the concept remains the same- taking one's time along the way of life to relax and enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction from kits ... and I think most of us who grew up modeling in the 70's and 80's have by necessity built a lot of kits, myself included.  Eventually I burned out on kit building and now only build them now and then when I get the hankering - I certainly have quite a few built up in boxes still. 

I see the RTR as a good thing for many of us and there are plenty of kits around for those who still want to relax that way. 

The difference for me is that railroads are built, not bought-  Cedarwoodro

You've got to remember that even if you buy RTR train cars, there is no denying that you still have to build the Railroad.  How many people can afford to have a railroad built for you? 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Tampa, Florida
  • 1,481 posts
Posted by cedarwoodron on Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:05 PM
When I hear other modeler's say that they don't have the time to build kits, it calls to mind the "I want it now" immediate gratification urge of the present generation of youth. Maybe I'm old fashioned- no wait, I AM old fashioned, but it personally gives me great satisfaction to take several days to carefully plan and assemble a BB kit. I say plan, because I am always doing something-- no matter how minor- to improve them, be it metal wheels and some weathering, etc. They may not be the super detailed RTRs of today, but for over 40 years, they were a mainstay of the hobby, giving life to many layouts. I always thought a hobby was something to relax with- ease ones blood pressure, get away from the daily routine. But it seems less like a hobby and more like a task, when everything is RTR and you just plug and play to get a layout going. Now, as I enter the world of DCC this fall, I am sure I will find a new form of "plan and assemble" as I convert engines and establish programming for them, but the concept remains the same- taking one's time along the way of life to relax and enjoy. The difference for me is that railroads are built, not bought- I treasure the BBs I find and wish they were back! Cedarwoodron
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, October 21, 2012 12:58 PM

BRAKIE

...

Guys,here's a personal thought that kinda troubles me..

I can't help but miss the old days when the hobby seem more relaxed(not sure what word to use) then it is today..I don't know even at  my age my modeling taste has changed..I prefer RTR over kits but,still enjoy structure kits and a occasional data only  Accurail Kit..

IMHO the best any of us can do is enjoy the hobby in our own ways.

...

I agree.   Somewhere along the way the hobby has been come more critical and serious.  At least in the hobby press, where there seems to be more emphasis on prototype modeling.  I admit, I have moved in that direction myself. 

But lately I have been buying some MDC/Roundhouse kits, thinking about doing a small retro layout reminescent of the early 70's when a I started in this hobby.

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 642 posts
Posted by RMax1 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:28 AM

I suspect the hobby started growing up when Life Like introduce the highly detailed P2K line and it was a matter of course when accurate RTR cars would be produce.

I agree with this statement.  The Proto lines did a lot.  I tinkered with the hobby for a long time but it was a Proto 2000 RI E8 that made the hobby stick for me.  No longer was I messing with poor running equipment.  I had a couple of Athearn loco's that ran ok  but the Lifelike Protos blew them away.  The details and the quality were outstanding.  The Tyco and Bachmann products just couldn't compare.  The same is true for rolling stock.  Going from Tyco/Bachmann rolling stock to Athearn was light years of a jump and going from Athearn to Accurail and Branchline is another such jump.  I still like some Athearn BB kits and will even modify old Tyco car but the hobby has grown up.  

 My main gripe with the whole Athearn thing RTR or BB is while the rest of the industry grew up a larger part of Athearn stayed in the 60's.  Sure they came out with Genesis but they rarely updated the BB line as far as I could tell.  While I am not a rivet counter some little things bother me.  Every Tyco F was numbered 4015 because that was Tyco's model number for the product.  So if you had a Conrail, BN or Santa Fe F it was 4015 regardless if the road.  This is the train set mentality.  To apply it to Athearn, here is a AT&SF F7  hhmmm....   looks like a all the other roads just different paint.  AT&SF didn't have those features?    Steam generators and wrong back end?  Numbers don't match?  Ah it's good enough because it's painted like a Santa Fe F7!  Today with better detail and loco specific features you have less and less generic trains. 

RMax

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,905 posts
Posted by csxns on Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:24 AM

BRAKIE
RTR cars shows us that modelers are preferring

That is why i buy RTR.BB kits and MDC have long gone from my RR.

Russell

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:31 AM

jeffrey-wimberly

NP2626
I haven't bought any Athearn products (excepting used-older blue box kits) since Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn/MDC out.  I doubt I will spend much money with them in the future, as what they produce is simply not what I'm interested in.

Same here. I like building the kit the way I want it, not having to take apart something that was put together in a factory. Some of the Athearn cars I've come across have grabs and stirrups that seem to break when breathed on hard. I don't like that.

MBK has a on going sale on car kits yet there's no buyers..I see BB and MDC cars passed by at train shows.

I can't help but wonder why that is when we keep seeing discussions on the lack of car kits?

As I mention generic BB and MDC  kits had their day but,the growth of more accurate RTR cars shows us that modelers are preferring super detailed accurate  cars over generic cars..

I think RTR saved Athearn from closing their doors.

I suspect the hobby started growing up when Life Like introduce the highly detailed P2K line and it was a matter of course when accurate RTR cars would be produce.

Guys,here's a personal thought that kinda troubles me..

I can't help but miss the old days when the hobby seem more relaxed(not sure what word to use) then it is today..I don't know even at  my age my modeling taste has changed..I prefer RTR over kits but,still enjoy structure kits and a occasional data only  Accurail Kit..

IMHO the best any of us can do is enjoy the hobby in our own ways.

--------------------------------

Jeff,I notice the same thing about the stirrups on Athearn cars..I now add a tad of glue on the backside of each stirrup.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:10 AM

NP2626
I haven't bought any Athearn products (excepting used-older blue box kits) since Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn/MDC out.  I doubt I will spend much money with them in the future, as what they produce is simply not what I'm interested in.

Same here. I like building the kit the way I want it, not having to take apart something that was put together in a factory. Some of the Athearn cars I've come across have grabs and stirrups that seem to break when breathed on hard. I don't like that.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:20 AM

I haven't bought any Athearn products (excepting used-older blue box kits) since Horizon Hobbies bought Athearn/MDC out.  I doubt I will spend much money with them in the future, as what they produce is simply not what I'm interested in.

CP5415, Did you weather that box car?  What a terrific job of weathering!!! 

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Whitby, ON
  • 2,594 posts
Posted by CP5415 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 6:10 AM

This is an Athearn BB kit, it came with separately applied grab irons, stirrups & ladders. I bought a few of these kits off of one guy ( several different railways & railroads ) about a year ago. The best *** kit i've seen as anyone can build this kit & make it look good.

Yes, it would be nice if Athearn still made a kit like this, I've mentioned it several times here & on Facebook but Horizon is making too much $$$$$ making RTR right now. Oh Well. They are going to make what they can sell, plain & simple. Thank god for train shows.

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Sunday, October 21, 2012 5:15 AM

doctorwayne

NP2626

Actually the reasons for the lack of filler at the bottom side wall of the cupola and to the right, side wall-to roof joint was impatience on my part.  One more application of Squadron's filler would have done it. 


Yeah, I was aware of that, but my remarks are in reference to the steel caboose which you posted previously.


Wayne

 The comment on the lack of filler was in reference TO the steel caboose.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:17 PM

NP2626

Actually the reasons for the lack of filler at the bottom side wall of the cupola and to the right, side wall-to roof joint was impatience on my part.  One more application of Squadron's filler would have done it. 


Yeah, I was aware of that, but my remarks are in reference to the steel caboose which you posted previously.


Wayne

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:56 PM

Actually the reasons for the lack of filler at the bottom side wall of the cupola and to the right, side wall-to roof joint was impatience on my part.  One more application of Squadron's filler would have done it. 

Thanks for the compliments!  It really was a fun project.

I have actually broke down and bought one of Fox Valley's B&O wagon-top RTR box cars.  I love this car and wanted one for my railroad and kits simply aren't available so, I bit the bullet and bought a ready to run car.  Didn't pay $30.00 for it, got it from Model Train Stuff for $20.00.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:53 PM

Sorry, Marlon, I must have been composing my last offering when you posed your question.  I've sent you a PM in reply.

Wayne

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:19 PM

NP2626

Here is an Athearn kit for their standard caboose, modified into a 1000/1050 series Northern Pacific Steel Caboose.  Some windows filled and moved, the cupola moved forward, widened to the width of the car body and raised.  Ladders and catwalks moved to the opposite side and the end railings completely re-done.  I add window glass using clear plastic sheet.  I also removed all rivets and molded on grabs and replaced the grabs with wire ones bent from brass wire.  


That's an impressive make-over, as you've completely changed the appearance of that car, even though it still utilises the original body casting. Thumbs Up  I wouldn't have recognised it other than for your description of the work done.

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject!  Fill poorly done at the lower corners of the cupola and at the roof and sides corner on the right side of the photo.  Still I feel the model captures the look of the prototype and probably cost $175.00 less than a brass model and fun to do ta-boot!  This is the first of three of these cabooses I plan to make from Athearn cabooses.  I can only hope the next two will be better!


You're right:  photos don't lie (although I guess that they could be made to). Smile, Wink & Grin
I've never been a big fan of filler putties (probably because I've never had much success using them), but they work well if used where only a light application is needed.  If you're attempting to fill anything deeper than the thickness of a sheet of paper, you'll get better results more easily using solid fillers.  For styrene plastic, nothing works better than styrene, welded in place with solvent cement.  For filling holes, select a piece of strip stock (Evergreen has a wide range of sizes and shapes available) a few thousandths larger than the hole which you wish to plug.  Coat both the plug and the sides of the hole with solvent cement, wait a few seconds, then jam the plug into place.  It should eventually reach a point where it can't be pushed any further.  Set it aside for at least 24 hours before touching it - the material which has oozed out onto the visible surfaces will then be fully hardened and can be removed with a sharp blade.  It will likely not even need to be sanded.  If the hole to be filled is not close to the size of the filler stock which you have on-hand, drill it out to a useable size. 
For large holes, such as windows, cut slightly oversize plugs from sheet stock of a thickness close to that of the original material, then cement in place as described.  Use a metal straightedge to ensure that the visible surfaces are flush with the surrounding area, then set aside to cure.  Do not attempt to clean up spills, oozes, or blemishes while the area is still soft.
Open-edged areas, like the corners of the car near the eaves or the base of the cupola can be filled in a similar manner.  Select material equal to or greater in all dimensions than the area requiring filling, and apply solvent cement to all mating surfaces.  Wait several seconds to allow the material to soften, then press the filler piece firmly into place and set aside until it's fully cured - usually at least 24 hours.  The excess material can then be removed with a knife or files, and should require little or no filler.  A depression in any surface is easier to fill if it's first made into a hole - drill-out small areas to fit your filler stock, or cut out larger areas and make suitable plugs from sheet stock.

I've also used styrene to plug holes in metal cars, like the old Varney car shown below.  It was among the first HO cars I owned, but I wanted to bring its detail level a bit closer to what's available nowadays.  After dismantling the car and improving the tab-in-slot assembly somewhat, I removed all of the free-standing metal grab irons (oversize wire) and pressed-in-place plastic ladders (overly thick), then drilled out the mounting holes to a size slightly smaller than the styrene rod which I wanted to use as filler.  Next, I cut squares of .060" thick sheet styrene, then cemented them to the car's interior using contact cement, a piece behind each hole.  These were then drilled to the same size as the enlarged holes in the metal sides.  Solvent cement was then applied to the .047" filler rod and to the interior of the drilled holes, then the filler jammed into place, through both the holes in the metal car and the styrene behind them.   Once hardened, the excess was sliced off, the plugs and backing styrene secured both to one another and to the metal car.  It was then easy to drill properly-sized and properly-placed holes for new grab irons.  and to add styrene mounting tabs for the plastic replacement ladders.







Wayne
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Clinton, MO, US
  • 4,261 posts
Posted by Medina1128 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:39 PM

NP2626

LOVE the pics of your rolling stock, "Doc". Do you have a link for pics of your layout?

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:19 AM

BRAKIE

NP2626

richhotrain

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject! 

Amen to that.

I have gotten to the point that I am hesitant to post any close up photos because "flaws" that I cannot even see show up in a photo. 

Rich

Too heck with the rivet counters--Full speed ahead! 

People who are critical of others hard work and effort, generally don't show their work because there only real talent is criticism!

I won't critize other modeling since mine is far from "perfect".I will discuss some types of modeling techniques though.

BTW..When I first looked at your caboose photo I thought it was a  wooden caboose kit..Thumbs Up

I still like those old  wooden caboose kits espeically the B&O I-5 caboose by Silver Streak.

I kinda miss those old days.

You want wood kits?  Howsabout Amercan Model Builder's "Laser kits"!  This is their N.P. 1200 series 24 footers which to my eye are the prettiest little cabeeses there ever was!  They have a pretty good selection of road names.  The photo of this one reveals that the side wall of the cupola wasn't down onto the roof gpood enough, when it was glued on.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:01 AM

NP2626

richhotrain

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject! 

Amen to that.

I have gotten to the point that I am hesitant to post any close up photos because "flaws" that I cannot even see show up in a photo. 

Rich

Too heck with the rivet counters--Full speed ahead! 

People who are critical of others hard work and effort, generally don't show their work because there only real talent is criticism!

I won't critize other modeling since mine is far from "perfect".I will discuss some types of modeling techniques though.

BTW..When I first looked at your caboose photo I thought it was a  wooden caboose kit..Thumbs Up

I still like those old  wooden caboose kits espeically the B&O I-5 caboose by Silver Streak.

I kinda miss those old days.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Whitby, ON
  • 2,594 posts
Posted by CP5415 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:13 AM

Nice job on the caboose. To me, it looks like the boys in the paint dept touched up a couple of rough spots by the cupola & were rushed to get it back into service ..... hence the paint mis-match.

Just my observations! ;)

I too miss the BB's. Thankfully there still is Accurail for kits but they don't seem to catch on up here in Canada, at least not in my neck of the woods. This is even after I mentioned them to my LHS.

Oh well!

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:25 AM

NP2626

richhotrain

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject! 

Amen to that.

I have gotten to the point that I am hesitant to post any close up photos because "flaws" that I cannot even see show up in a photo. 

Rich

Too heck with the rivet counters--Full speed ahead! 

People who are critical of others hard work and effort, generally don't show their work because there only real talent is criticism!

So true.

Incidentally, you did a nice job on that caboose.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:24 AM

richhotrain

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject! 

Amen to that.

I have gotten to the point that I am hesitant to post any close up photos because "flaws" that I cannot even see show up in a photo. 

Rich

Too heck with the rivet counters--Full speed ahead! 

People who are critical of others hard work and effort, generally don't show their work because there only real talent is criticism!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:09 AM

NP2626

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject! 

Amen to that.

I have gotten to the point that I am hesitant to post any close up photos because "flaws" that I cannot even see show up in a photo. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, October 20, 2012 5:48 AM

 Here is an Athearn kit for their standard caboose, modified into a 1000/1050 series Northern Pacific Steel Caboose.  Some windows filled and moved, the cupola moved forward, widened to the width of the car body and raised.  Ladders and catwalks moved to the opposite side and the end railings completely re-done.  I add window glass using clear plastic sheet.  I also removed all rivets and molded on grabs and replaced the grabs with wire ones bent from brass wire.

It's amazing to me, that per John Allen, photographs show all the little flaws in a subject!  Fill poorly done at the lower corners of the cupola and at the roof and sides corner on the right side of the photo.  Still I feel the model captures the look of the prototype and probably cost $175.00 less than a brass model and fun to do ta-boot!  This is the first of three of these cabooses I plan to make from Athearn cabooses.  I can only hope the next two will be better!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, October 19, 2012 11:44 PM

Of the currently-available kits, I like Accurail and Bowser.  Red Caboose are nice, too but limited in scope, and Branchline are mostly too modern for my modelling era.
Athearn kits are still abundant at train shows, but I much prefer used Athearn (built or unbuilt) and even moreso, used Train Miniature - they can often be had for a couple of bucks and, for what I have in mind, broken details, missing parts, and poor paint jobs are of little consequence.  I'm interested in building something, so I usually get a lot of "modelling" for my couple of bucks.  Granted, I do spend money on details, material, paint and lettering, etc., but I end up with a decent-looking car and, usually, something unique.
One of eight used Athearn boxcars, various roadnames and condition:


An Athearn kit, new in the box, only $3.00 at the hobbyshop.  The trucks cost more than twice that, but the cost for material to modify it was only a couple of bucks - lots of modelling for not much money, and a totally unique caboose:


MDC kit, new in box at hobbyshop for $2.00:


Train Miniature, used, four bucks at a train show.  Seen here, it's been heavily modified:


I'll buy so-called r-t-r, too, but only if the price is decent or the car is one which I especially want and is otherwise unavailable.  Here's a Walthers r-t-r car that got added and corrected details, a different number, and, of course, weathering:


Likewise for this TrueLine CPR caboose - $15.00 slightly used.  Supposedly r-t-r, I disassembled it completely to add window shades, then stripped the lettering (and inadvertently the paint on the sides, too. Bang Head  I also painted all of the end detail - platforms, railings, ladders, etc., then re-lettered the car for one of my own roads. 


For me, stuff like this keeps the "modelling" in model railroading. Smile, Wink & Grin


Wayne

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Friday, October 19, 2012 7:36 PM

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

I feel your pain, keith9824!  One of my biggest enjoyments is building kits.  Although the Athearn kits made up the majority of my earlier Freight car roster, I have sold most of them off on Ebay and replaced them with Accurail, E&BT Shops, Branchline, P2K and other more detailed kits.  There is very little RTR stuff on my railroad and I like it this way.  People will say they like the RTR stuff as it gives them more time to build other things.  Whatever, I guess if you like building you like building and it really doesn't matter what your building.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Friday, October 19, 2012 7:16 PM

riogrande5761

With the large quantities of kits at train shows year after year, it doesn't seem the bb kits and other varieties are getting all built that fast.  The way I see it, many of us collected lots of kits, and simply ended up with more than we had time to build. 

I agree. I think there's a pretty good supply of BB out there.

I have my doubts about the potential for appreciation for BB in the short term, say the next 50 years.Grumpy It'll take that long for all of us to die and bequeath all the BB and other stuff to our heirs, most of whom will head straight to ebay if they're smart.Wink

Just saying there are multiple lifetimes of supplies of BB floating around at any one time. Now good stuff like kits from Red Caboose, P2K, the Branchline Blueprint series, Westerfield, etc, that's what I think is where there is some potential.

I'm sure there are dealers who will try to corner the market, advertising-wise with declarations of "vintage" BB stock, but with very little effort anyone can locate their own life-time supply of BB to hold and appreciate for what it is, for it'll likely not appreciate, fiscally.Clown

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • 805 posts
Posted by narrow gauge nuclear on Friday, October 19, 2012 11:58 AM

When I was in HO from about 1959 until 14 years ago,  I only bought Athern BB kits.  I still have everyone I every bought and built, stored away.  Unfortunately for my wallet, HOn3 is such that a microscale kit for a simple 30' gondola car is $36.00.  They are very well done but come with about 50 tiny parts for you to add if you "want it all".  Blackstone cars are the very best RTR but a long caboose lists for $80.00 and a single passenger car can be about $100.00.  Ouch! 

Blessedly, my short line is not one to be loaded with rolling stock.  La Belle is still a nice cheap way to go in wood, but Rail Line HOn3 cars, when in stock, and bought from M.B. Klein are $12.79 for a 30 foot, snow white plastic boxcar....no wheels....no couplers and no decals, but a baggie full of tiny parts just line Micro Scale.  The detail is excellent, though.  Rail Line doesn't have many offerings and what they have in their literature is not always what's on hand.

Looks like a lot of scratch builds are going to be in the works, but that's always been part of HOn3. What few passengers there are on my road are riding in a to be scratchbuilt long combine caboose at the end of an ore train or on a galloping goose.

Remembering when BB kits were just fine and came virtually ready to run. (Nothing to buy but glue, no painting and no decaling.)

Richard

Richard

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, October 19, 2012 11:41 AM

G Paine
If you model a road name that is not on the "top line" list, you have to buy a RTR, figure how to take it apart without busting it, then strip, paint and decal it for what you want.

That is one thing I would not want to do with a high price car since the Chinese hasn't figured out how much glue is needed to hold a tiny part on and that includes to little to get the job done-I've seen both.

However,all is not lost since some manufacturers inculde undecorated kits in their runs.

My method has been to take the easy way out..Surprise

I use Accurail data only kits..Wink

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Chamberlain, ME
  • 5,084 posts
Posted by G Paine on Friday, October 19, 2012 11:21 AM

peahrens
How do Accurail, Bowser, Roundhouse, etc stack up in terms of detail, paint job, etc?  I like the few Accurail and Bowsers I've built so far but haven't compared closely to say one is "better" than another. 

Accurail and Bowser kits have better detail than the old BB kits, also don't forget Branchline kits and RTR which was bought bay Atlas, and sold under their name.

My big problem with RTR is you are stuck with what the manufacturer decides to produce, which is fine if you model the more popular railroads. If you model a road name that is not on the "top line" list, you have to buy a RTR, figure how to take it apart without busting it, then strip, paint and decal it for what you want. That was the big advantage of the undecorated BB kits - problem was they never sold well and disappeared from the market before the kits went away.

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, October 19, 2012 10:05 AM

peahrens

Are the Roundhouse kits people mention relatively new, or just the older kits floating around?

Just the older kits.

Roundhouse was purchase by Athearn and the line of Roundhouse cars has been upgraded to RTR with separately applied grab irons, thinner stirrups and metal wheels.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • 2,314 posts
Posted by don7 on Friday, October 19, 2012 10:05 AM

MisterBeasley

I miss them, too, but there are alternatives.  I just found one a week ago at a train show.  I buy Accurails and Roundhouse kits.  Since I model the Milwaukee Road, I bought a number of the rib-side cars from the little ad in MR.

As I've become a better modeler, I've learned to appreciate better models, so not having Blue Boxes doesn't bother me as much.

Roundhouse is no longer making kits as I understand, is that correct? As Athearn and Roundhouse are both owned by Horizon.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Posted by peahrens on Friday, October 19, 2012 9:53 AM

I'm back to the hobby this year and like building the simple kits.  I bought pretty much one of each type 40' freight Accurail kits and a number of Bowser as well, plus a sample of others (Intermountain, etc) to try.  And I pick up some BB kits at shows.  I add metal wheelsets and Kadee couplers.

Are the Roundhouse kits people mention relatively new, or just the older kits floating around?

How do Accurail, Bowser, Roundhouse, etc stack up in terms of detail, paint job, etc?  I like the few Accurail and Bowsers I've built so far but haven't compared closely to say one is "better" than another. 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Knoxville, TN
  • 2,055 posts
Posted by farrellaa on Friday, October 19, 2012 9:23 AM

I too have built my share of BB kits and still have a few to do. Well, I will actually sell the unbuilt ones as I now don't think they have the detail level and quality that I want. The stirrups and ladders are too thick and the printing isn't razor sharp like the newer laser printed ones are. I have removed some stirrups and replaced them with formed brass ones, but the rest ot the model just doesn't have it in my opinion. I like the Accurail kits and just built my first P2K kit; much better quality even if they take a bit more time. I also have a lot of old Train Miniature kits that are probably a little better than the BB but not like the newer ones. I am in my 70's now and don't have the time for all the assembly so I am gradually getting more of the RTR ones that have great detail and metal wheels, just need Kadee's and some weathering.

     -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,484 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, October 19, 2012 8:21 AM

Greenway Products has an extensive line of ice bunker beer reefers based on the Athearn BB model.  I hope they will still have a channel to get the base models for these.

I've used other BB reefer kits as the base for a couple of my own custom reefers to serve industries on my layout.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Tampa, Florida
  • 1,481 posts
Posted by cedarwoodron on Friday, October 19, 2012 8:08 AM
Let the others pass by the swap meet tables with the BBs! I always stop, check for what's there and usually leave with 2-3 kits! Sometimes you can get several built BBs for $10, such as 3 or so. They may have been assembled and just used as "rolling stock filler" on someone's layout. I get them, disassemble them and clean them up- Kadees and metal wheels, repair a blemish or missing grab, paint the weight flat black and all of a sudden, I have new and interesting inventory. I keep a good stock of unbuilt kits, for it gives me comfort to know I always have a new project immediately at hand. The Athearn BBs may be passé to others, but I consider them as a valuable resource. Cedarwoodron
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, October 19, 2012 6:09 AM

Hi,

I too have a soft spot for the Athearn BB and those companies that used them as base kits (i.e. Bev-Bel).   I began my collection about 1960, and with KDs and metal wheelsets, and a coat of Dull-Cote, they are terrific layout cars.

While they are no longer made, there are plenty available on Ebay - built or unbuilt.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, October 19, 2012 5:38 AM

Generic BB cars had their day and that day has pass.There are lots of kits out there if one attends train shows,Accurail,BB,Bev-Bel/Athearn,Roundhouse,Bowser among others.I've seen built BB cars with metal wheels and KD couplers sell for $5.00 while built BB with the X2F coupler was selling for $3.00  or 2/$5.00

Here's the rub..I seen BB kits 3/$10.00 and people walk right on by.I've seen Accurail kits ignored while RTR was flying off the dealers table..

I just can't get teary eyed over the demise of the BB kit..I  built more then my fair share over the years and usually found problems like warp floors,frames and weights.The coupler was usually to low or in some rare cases to high.

What I love about the RTR car is the ease of switching out KD wanna bes for either KD or Walthers ProtoMax coupler and 99.9% of the time the coupler height is spot on..I use either a roof brown or rail brown paint marker to paint the wheel face..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, October 19, 2012 3:59 AM

riogrande5761

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

No need to miss them.  Visit a large train show in your area and you can find lots of them at the vendor tables and pick up a box full to keep you busy.  I see lots at the shows every time I visit.

I also see lots of them at shows usually in the $5-$10 range.  Some of the smaller shows have them for $5 and under.  I have also found old Roundhouse locomotive kits for $35.

As others have noted, the market for kits seems limited and bargains are available.  For modeling on the cheap and for those with some time they are a good way to get started or grow the fleet.

Good luck

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,257 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, October 19, 2012 3:16 AM

Gidday, . While I miss the BB kits times have changed,  I would just add my vote for Accurail kits. 

Just a few irrelevant observations from New Zealand.

rrinker and riogrande5761. Its already starting to happen  here, A dealer snapped the remaining stocks of "new" BB kits and, because of their "rarity" is selling them currently at 1 1/2 times more than when they were on the LHS  shelves. The same happened with MDC "Roundhouse" kits , ( they got to 3 x) !!!. On our equivalent of "Ebay" I also note that there seem to be a lot of dreamers with what I consider over the top prices.. I certainly am not buying.

While I have bought some RTR, and appreciate why others prefer to do so, my " LHS' owner doesn't like to stock kits because they just don't sell that well. I find that a bit sad. (He will order stuff in for me as required). For me kits offer far more bang for my buck.

Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • From: Dartford, Kent, England
  • 84 posts
Posted by jdobo on Friday, October 19, 2012 12:32 AM

I find the ready to run range is more work than the blue box kits because you have to disassemble them before you can weather them, add weight,  change the wheel sets and couplers etc. Then reassemble them just like a blue box kit.

Regards Jon.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:14 PM
  • rrinker

     Until they all get built, there will be unbuilt ones traded on eBay and at train meets. Grab'em while you can. I'm sure some joker is putting some aside unbuilt so they can be 'collector's items" in a few years - you'll see it on ebay sure as the sun rises - "Vintage Unbuilt Blue Box Kit" starting bid $100.

With the large quantities of kits at train shows year after year, it doesn't seem the bb kits and other varieties are getting all built that fast.  The way I see it, many of us collected lots of kits, and simply ended up with more than we had time to build.  But some years ago, that was the only way you could have a decent quality fleet of rolling stock because back then, the RTR stuff was mostly toy like.  Now that we've had a large supply of good quality RTR stuff on the market for years, many of us are looking at our collections with realistic eyes and saying "you know, I"m never going to build most of these" and we are selling them.

There seems to be this romantic notion about kits.  Well, thats fine but there are alot of folks who don't have the time to build hundreds of freight cars, and the train shows I've gone to in Syracuse NY, Springfield MA, Indianapolis IN, Rochester NY, and recently Timonium MD - the tables are packed with kits and for cheap prices including lots of Athearn blue box.  Why?  Again because there are many people who realized they didn't have time to build them all and put them up for sale.  That, and many buyers don't want to get many more kits because they already have more than they will build ,so they aren't flying off the tables.  We are happy to rebuild our fleet with more prototypically based RTR stuff and part with kits we know we will never build, not after 10 or 15  or 20 plus years of sitting on them still unbuilt.

So based on my observations, my guess is we will continue to see Athearn bb kits, as well as other brands in liberal supply at major train shows for years to come.  I don't expect we will see them selling for $100 on Ebay for quite a long time yet.  Yes, I realize at your local hobby shop Athearn is no longer shipping blue box kits.  Get in your car and go to the next big train show in a city near you and you ought to be able to find enough kits to keep you busy.

 

In the meantime, there is Accurail, so far still committed to making kits, pretty much just as easy as BB, sometimes just slightly more difficult. And perhaps more importantly in these days of overseas manufacture - Accurail kits are made in the USA.

                    --Randy

Yes, as far as LHS being able to stock the shelves, Accurail is helping keep that end up so you can visit your LHS and/or order them in.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:53 PM

When I first started in the hobby about 10 years ago I really liked the BB kits. They were a cheap and easy way to populate my roster, and I made a point of bringing them up to NMRA standards as others in the thread have done. I had a ball with them!

They are still available at the train shows but the problem now is that the road names and car types are rarely suitable for my purposes. Also, with some experience under my belt I realize that the quality of things like the printing leaves a lot to be desired. The lettering is often very dim.

As others have said, Accurail has good stuff.

The other kit mfr that I would like to see back is LifeLike P2K. Their kits were a lot fussier than the BB ones but with practise they produced decent models, at least in my opinion. Not craftsman but not crap either. Yes the grab irons were a pita - thank goodness they provided extras.

I have purchased lots of RTR where the road name and car type suited my needs and I am quite happy with them, but had I had the choice or kits vs RTR I would have chosen the kits just for the pleasure of building something. That's a very personal choice - I like working with my hands.

Anyhow purchasing more rolling stock is a moot point for me now. I am saving my money so I can actually start to build my layout.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 1,001 posts
Posted by jerryl on Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:51 PM

Accurail makes or made great outside braced box cars. I just add metal grabs on the side & top, metal wheels & Kadee couplers. Can't beat it for the price.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,484 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:36 PM

I miss them, too, but there are alternatives.  I just found one a week ago at a train show.  I buy Accurails and Roundhouse kits.  Since I model the Milwaukee Road, I bought a number of the rib-side cars from the little ad in MR.

As I've become a better modeler, I've learned to appreciate better models, so not having Blue Boxes doesn't bother me as much.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:22 PM

 Until they all get built, there will be unbuilt ones traded on eBay and at train meets. Grab'em while you can. I'm sure some joker is putting some aside unbuilt so they can be 'collector's items" in a few years - you'll see it on ebay sure as the sun rises - "Vintage Unbuilt Blue Box Kit" starting bid $100.

 In the meantime, there is Accurail, so far still committed to making kits, pretty much just as easy as BB, sometimes just slightly more difficult. And perhaps more importantly in these days of overseas manufacture - Accurail kits are made in the USA.

 

                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, October 18, 2012 8:08 PM

keithh9824

I miss the athearn blue box kits i loved them most of my trains before i sold them where athearn blue box starting over again and finding some out there just wished they would come back

No need to miss them.  Visit a large train show in your area and you can find lots of them at the vendor tables and pick up a box full to keep you busy.  I see lots at the shows every time I visit.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:53 PM

As others have written, try Accurail kits.  I think they are a good replacement for the blue box kits, even a little higher quality, IMO.  I'd put them in the same level of detail group as Atlas trainman and Walthers mainline.

Most of their kits are models of older era cars.  I wish they would offer one or more cars of newer era.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Kansas
  • 808 posts
Posted by jamnest on Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:42 PM

I am trying to build a fleet of cars for operating my layout.  I subscribe to the "Good Enough" philosophy which includes at least KD couplers, weight to NMRA standards and metal wheels.I have been buying Athearn BB kits and Roundhouse kits on Ebay, but because they are out of production the price is climbing.

Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,255 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:23 PM

I'm with Dan.  Even though their product line is more limited, I like Accurail much better.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Clearlake, California. USA
  • 869 posts
Posted by Lake on Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:18 PM

jerryl

Probably won't see them again while they can spend 3 min. assembling them, add metal wheels & sell them for 3 times as much.  Also Ready to Run is more popular than kits today. Gives you more time to play computer games!

For me, ready to run gives me more time for operations. I spend my extra time on scratch building structures and scenery, etc. And the MRR forums of course!

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:23 PM

I used to pick up several blue box kits every time I went to the LHS. About the only place I see them now is Ebay.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: San Diego
  • 954 posts
Posted by stokesda on Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:02 PM

Blue box is OK, but Accurail kits have much better deail and aren't that much harder to assemble. I believe Accurail is still cranking out new kits. I'd be super happy if they'd add a little more variety to their lineup, to include PS covered hoppers, modern tank cars, centerbeam flats, etc.

Kit nostalgia aside, I can appreciate the value of a decently-detailed and reasonably-priced RTR model. I've got a backlog of a couple dozen kits that will probably take years to get to. My free time is at an extreme premium right now, and what little bit of hobby time I have is focused elsewhere. RTR is nice because I can run trains immediately and spend my limited modeling time on layout construction or loco detailing. If I had to scratchbuild or kit-assemble everything in this hobby, at this stage in my life I'd probably just give up and stick to railfanning.

Dan Stokes

My other car is a tunnel motor

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Peoria
  • 89 posts
Posted by keithh9824 on Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:41 AM

Unfortunatly that is true i just loved putting them together passed the time and got lost in doing it

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 1,001 posts
Posted by jerryl on Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:32 AM

Probably won't see them again while they can spend 3 min. assembling them, add metal wheels & sell them for 3 times as much.  Also Ready to Run is more popular than kits today. Gives you more time to play computer games!

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!