EM-1 first look

[hdtvnut]

I can verify that the Titan Articulated does model the cylinder release sound. So do my MTH steamers. If I remember correctly, the Tsunamis don't. The Titan steam also gives a choice of over 30 whistles. The bad news according to George at ST is that the sound module for the EM-1, sold only thru Bachmann and available very soon, simply has the same articulated sound as the Tsunami Heavy. No refinement of the double chuff at higher speeds. He said they have this problem on a list and could develop a new file later. I say sooner would be better because QSI has them beat in this respect as well as with the cylinder release. Hal

[tschwarz]

selector

The reasoning for the cylinder cocks is not quite correct from my understanding.  Opening them prior to opening the throttle after more than a few minutes of immobility is a precaution for the sake of the cylinders, not just  the valves.   If the sidewalls of the cylinders hold, and the piston is strong enough to cause it, driving condensate against the end-caps will cause a hydraulic ram effect, and it will rupture the cylinder walls or eject the end-caps. 

The cylinder cocks are two taps at the bottoms, and at opposite ends, of the cylinder.  When they are opened in a timely manner, the first inlet of steam to whichever end of the cylinder is open for admission by virtue of valve placement above the cylinder will cause a noisy emission of steam and condensate from the floor of the cylinder.  Because the cylinders are still cooler than the steam being admitted, the next minute or so of operation requires that the cocks remain open to carry out freshly condensed steam that will run down the sidewalls of the still-warming cylinders and piston faces.

The LokSound equipped and QSI equipped locomotives that I have after the initial upgrade in the summer of 2006 all have simulated  whooshing or hissing.  I believe the decoder is meant to count about 20 driver revolutions...I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

Crandell

 

Crandell,

Your description of why the cylinder cocks are opened after the engine stands for a period to time is 100% correct and what you state could happen if they did not open the cylinder cocks is correct as well.  I would not want to be hit by a flying cylinder end cap.  

You are also correct in where the cylinder cocks are located and how they work.  This is also the reason why the do not need to be opened EVERYTIME the engine starts because if it has only been sitting for short period of time there will be no condensate in the cylinders.

Tom

 

[selector]

The reasoning for the cylinder cocks is not quite correct from my understanding.  Opening them prior to opening the throttle after more than a few minutes of immobility is a precaution for the sake of the cylinders, not just  the valves.   If the sidewalls of the cylinders hold, and the piston is strong enough to cause it, driving condensate against the end-caps will cause a hydraulic ram effect, and it will rupture the cylinder walls or eject the end-caps. 

The cylinder cocks are two taps at the bottoms, and at opposite ends, of the cylinder.  When they are opened in a timely manner, the first inlet of steam to whichever end of the cylinder is open for admission by virtue of valve placement above the cylinder will cause a noisy emission of steam and condensate from the floor of the cylinder.  Because the cylinders are still cooler than the steam being admitted, the next minute or so of operation requires that the cocks remain open to carry out freshly condensed steam that will run down the sidewalls of the still-warming cylinders and piston faces.

The LokSound equipped and QSI equipped locomotives that I have after the initial upgrade in the summer of 2006 all have simulated  whooshing or hissing.  I believe the decoder is meant to count about 20 driver revolutions...I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

Crandell

 

[tschwarz]

DigitalGriffin

That said, none of the manufacturers still make a really good steam at low speeds.  If you ever watch a steam engine starting from a standing stop, you will hear very long "Whoooooses" as the cylinders dump steam.  None of the sound decoders to date duplicate this wonderful sound.  We just get a short "Short Chuf <long pause>Short Chuf<long pause>" instead of a proper "Whoooosh <very short pause> Whooosh <very short pause> Whoosh" 

 

I am able to get the sound of the cylinder cocks being opened when my QSI equipped steam engines start out.  After putting in the upgrade chip you can configure the cylinder cocks to automatically open when starting from neutral if the loco has been sitting for 25 seconds.  Then after 16 exhausts or 12 smph they will shut and operate as normal.  I have been configuring this on all of my QSI upgraded steam engines.  

As quoted in the updated QSI manual:

Cylinder Cocks: When a steam locomotive sits idle for an extended period of time, water condenses and collects in the steam chest.  Since water is not compressible and can damage the cylinder valves, the engineer must open special cocks on the steam cylinders to allow the water to be ejected as the piston moves. As the locomotive moves out, clouds of steam and water are propelled out on either side of the locomotive in such a flurry that it sometimes obscures the wheels and valve gear of the engine. Hear the sounds of Cylinder Cocks on the model as the locomotive starts out after it has been idle in Neutral for at least 25 seconds. The Cylinder$1****$2sounds are synchronized to the Chuff and shorten in duration as the loco’s speed is increased. After the locomotive has reached 12 smph or 16 Cylinder$1****$2sounds have occurred, the Cylinder$1****$2sounds will slowly terminate as the last of the water is expelled and the engineer shuts off the cylinder cocks valves.

This all is part of the QSI "Sound of Power" and although it might not sound 100% like a real steam locomotive is does sound pretty good to me.  I was like you in that I did not like that a steam locomotive would start up without the sounds of the exhaust from the cylinder cocks.

To help out the Cylinder Cocks arming after Start Up and/or after 25 seconds in Neutral can be set using CV 51.2.

Just my observations.  I can't wait to get my hands on a Titan.

Tom

 

[DigitalGriffin]

I'll have to agree with you about the Tsunami's sounding "stacato" like at the higher chuff rates.

From what I can tell, the steam cut off (Johnson bar controlling the valve cutoff) isn't accurately modeled.  As a result the sound is cut off too early.  Their algorithm should account for the train running in "company mode" (early cut off/most efficient use of steam) at higher speeds.

So far only the QSI Revolution (with software update) /Titan accurately models the steam valve cut off modification.  But programming the QSI is such a pain in the DUCKASS.  And it does sound noticeably better to me, but only at higher chuff rates.

That said, none of the manufacturers still make a really good steam at low speeds.  If you ever watch a steam engine starting from a standing stop, you will hear very long "Whoooooses" as the cylinders dump steam.  None of the sound decoders to date duplicate this wonderful sound.  We just get a short "Short Chuf <long pause>Short Chuf<long pause>" instead of a proper "Whoooosh <very short pause> Whooosh <very short pause> Whoosh" 

I'm still waiting for a decent quilable whistle (AKA playable whistle) too.  Only Lionel/MTH seem to have done a good job at this. :-(

Too see (or rather HEAR) what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxndjtviVg

 

[hdtvnut]

The decoder is Soundtraxx, as etched into the bottom side. The sound module will also be Soundtraxx. It will be interesting to hear this sound if ST developed it especially for the EM-1 with a good articulated sound. Although the Tsunami Heavy Steam has settings for articulated engines, IMHO the sound is only decent at low speed; higher, it degenerates into a staccato noise. ST told me it is a limitation and explained the why. I like the Titan Articulated, and plan to replace ST Heavies in my articulateds with it. I have it tuned for the EM-1 in RTC mode now, a long, annoying job, both because I wasn't familiar with setting RTC PID parameters and because they are triple indexed. If you want them, email me. I'll save the Tsunamis for single engines. I also want to audition the Soundtraxx EM-1 module when available; if it is as good as I expect, I hope ST will make an aftermarket Tsunami version. Hal

[richg1998]

One user wanted to dim the headlight a little as he though it was too bright. That cannot be done until the sound decoder is installed according to a reply from Bachmann.

Also curiuos on how used will install their own decoder as the connection I hear is 21 pin. Have not looked at which companies sell a 21 pin sound decoder.

Rich

[richg1998]

I did read in the Bachmann  forums about the 21 pin decoder. Just curious what the inside will look like.

Also I am seeing Tsunami Technology for the decoder. Some say NOT a Tsunami decoder but has Tsunami Technology on board. Not sure if the waters are being muddied. Bachmann is not forth coming with much info and the info seems to be scattered. The Bachmann rep at the forums is usually quite cryptic with his replies.

Rich

[Fergmiester]

I guess I'll have to get me one of those pups... Nice!

 

Fergie

 

[hdtvnut]

Rich, there is a Soundtraxx Silent DCC board with a 21-pin header for a sound module which I don't think is available yet; all wires to the two interface connectors, etc, are black, but there are ID symbols on the board. Crandell, I agree the Loksound has great slo-mo; I put one in a LL 0-6-0 a few weeks ago and the two together are outstanding. I have another one I'm tempted to try in the EM-1 just to see what I might hope for from the Titan when settings are right. Hal

[bogp40]

cudaken

 Found this video on U Tube. While I love the music, wish it had a sound decoder in the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pokF3gqafDk

 Good looking engine!

 Cuda Ken

Thanks, Ken.  Mine should be along sometime soon.  It does look quite nice doesn't it?

[cudaken]

 Found this video on U Tube. While I love the music, wish it had a sound decoder in the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pokF3gqafDk

 Good looking engine!

 Cuda Ken

[richg1998]

Very nice. Now open the tender and let us see what is inside. I am wondering if Bachmann is using the NMRA recommended color wires/what type of connectors?

Rich

[hdtvnut]

The engine runs smoothly enough in STC mode, but so far, I have not had much luck with the RTC. I tried to follow all steps as given in the latest reference manual to set up PID, but get lurching up to about step 25 or 30. However, Erik, I left the "I" alone so far, so probably need to try it. Hal

[fisker76]

Hal-

The first place I would look into are the PID settings, most likely 'I'. It is extremely rare on QSI decoders to have the BEMF cause surging. And this is after hundreds of installations and decoder tunings....

Erik

[UncBob]

Mine came today and it is indeed a smooth runner

 

Runs OK on my 22 radius but a lot of overhang

 

 

Anyway I bought it for my Articulated collection in my display case not to run on my layout

Wish Bachmann would do an Allegheny for the price of the EM1 as an alternative  to the overpriced Rivarossi

 

I would get one tomorrow

[selector]

If it does stop the lurching, I would suggest you need to figure out how to restore the BEMF function for proper acceleration in CV3 and to configure the various parameters that allow you to take advantage of the capabilities afforded by active BEMF.  It works wonderfully in Tsunamis if people take the time to get into the book and to fiddle with values in CV's 209 and 210.  LokSounds seem to come wonderful...eh, Tom?

Crandell

[cacole]

Turn off BEMF in the Titan decoder if it is on by default, and that should stop the lurching at low speeds.

 

[hdtvnut]

Hi Betty. Will do if time permits. Ran into a snag with the QSI Titan installation. With default settings, the slow speed op is marred by surging (or loping), so I'm guessing that the original Soundtraxx DCC board uses a lot of feedback to control the motor. It did a little better on DC than with the Titan (no surging), but was somewhat difficult to start, and slowed on curves and grades more than originally. I will have to download the tech reference for the Titan to work with the PID settings, etc. and see if it can do as well as the Soundtraxx; otherwise, the Titan may end up in one of my LL 2-8-8-2's. More later. Hal

[CB&Q Modeler]

please to post video when QSI conversion done.

 

BETTY

[hdtvnut]

Received my Bachmann HO EM-1 Saturday. (B&O 2-8-8-4). I have always liked the Spectrum series for looks, not always for drive mechanisms. But this one is a winner. The drive is smooth down to creeping speed. No shimmy or extra noise. It easily pulled ten cars plus caboose up a 2.5% grade with hardly visible slowing. There seems to be no traction tire, and there are no blind drivers. The engine comes with DCC, speaker, and 21 pin connector for a Tsunami-type sound module add-on. However, I also bought a QSI Titan "articulated" decoder, so plan to install this instead. Hal