Today I spent 45 minutes or so at K-10 Model Trains trying to find a engine I wanted. Been wanting to try a Kato or Atlas and found none that really got me wanting it. Plus I was a little put off on having to install detail parts on the Kato engines. I was wanting to stay under $120.00.
Before I left I saw a SD70ACe in the UP/MP Heritage Colors and was very taken with it. I was looking at the none sound version for $149.99, and they had a sound version for $220.00.
On the Athearn site they listed CV fixes for there sound version. Other than sound has there been any problems with this engine? Does the none sound engine come with a decoder?
I all so did not see what size radius it needs. I have 2 18 inch turns left and my BLI GE AC 6000, RSD 15, E-7, E-6's, Erie Build's, SD-7, Dash 9 and big Steamers have no problems with them. But, I never bought a big engine unless they said they would take the tight turn. The 18 inch turns are hidden, so looking funny is not a problem.
On the sound version, are the speakers mounted in the fuel tank facing downward? My GE AC 6000 is side line again because it sucks up rail spikes. If they are facing down, are they prone to sucking up spikes?
Looking forward to what you folks think.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken
A friend of mine has a couple and siad the truck side frames were warped. He contacted Athearn and they told him how to fix and when he tried, he ended up breaking them. He spoke directly to Athean at a recent show and they indicated they would make the trucks right for him. Other than his, I've heard of no issue form others that own them.
Ricky
Thank Red, one of the reasons I am asking. I know Athearn has had some truck and power pick up problems. Sweet looking engine that does not run is not what I am looking for.
Ken Andrew purchased the BNSF version, non sound from K-10 with his Christmas money, he was running it the same day the Crispy was running the Kato Conrail.
There is no decoder installed, there is an 8 pin or 9 pin plug. They are a beast to get apart, and even worse to get back together due to the sand pipes being attached to the body.
One of the number boards was broken off in the box, and easy fix. One of the ditch lights already burned out and looks like it is going to be a bear to replace. Compared to other large diesel it seems to me that this one is a bit of a lightweight. It really struggled with the train it was assigned at K10 and had to cut off half the consist. With your new job, if there is ever a time when you are off at the same time as the boys are off, then Andrew could bring it over and let you try it on your curves.
Two other snippets, the Kato can pull a lot more.
Your buddy at Ulrich already released a retro fit LED lighting kit for the loco, which says something about the reliabilty of the lamps. You know how much I like those lamps!!
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I have one and only in one direction it derails on a Atlas number eight but on the other Atlas number eight it runs ok and the turnouts look fine.And Athearn did say that the warped truck can be fixed without a replacement,But with the unit hard to take apart i will run it in that direction that has no problem.
Russell
Simon, I should get home around 6:00 PM on Sundays if that is not to late? At this point I am off Wednesday and Thursdays. Yep I know how much you like ditch lights, the Dash 9 is pulling a coal drag as I miss type. Or as I call it one eye.
How may cars can it drag and is there any room to add weight? While my days of wanting to pull 60 cars are over, I still think a 6 wheel truck engine should pull 30 cars.
I did see a Kato I liked, but after you told me what a pain Chrisy was to add the detail parts, I backed off of on it. I think it was a SD 70 something in UP yellow or CSX colors.
Ken,
If you want a quality engine that pulls like a clidesdale, get the MTH SD70Ace. I have 4 of them and they all perform great, and very smooth.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Ken, I have two of those units with sound in the BNSF scheme. One unit has a slightly warped truck, but has caused no derailments (yet). I am going to attempt to take it apart and see if I can fix it. I am also going to replace the lights with LEDs.
Will
I'll second the MTH version. Good puller and very smoother with a canon motor. Available in DCC ready now too. I have 2 and love them. The handrails are metal with heavy duty stanchions. Also the lighting is LED so no problem with bulbs like athearn.
Springfield PA
I got one as an early Christmas present and the only issue I have is a burned out ditch light, which seems to be a very common thing. I dont seem to have the warped truck issue as mine handles my couple 18 inche curves and my Atlas Snap Switches in my rail yard with no problem. I did find it to be less forgiving of bad spots in my track which prompted me correct the couple spots and now it runs great.
A friend tried his brand new SD70ACe last night, only to have it derail several times in less than one lap around our club layout. The left rear wheel on the forward truck is not sitting on the rails but is suspended approximately 1/16th of an inch above the rail. Does anyone have an easy fix for this or should he return it?
The ditch lights are really iffy, Ken. I have the Genesis cousin, the SD75M in warbonnet. If a ditch light goes, it is a replacement...not a repair unless it is a wire or solder. If it is the bulb, the whole unit must be replaced. Or, so my repair guy told me.
The handrails are fragile!!!
These long engines don't like rails that are not dead even with each other. They'll take super-elevation, but just a bit at a time...gradual! Curves where the outer rail has been allowed to dip a fraction will produce a derailment at the leading truck.
Once you get them detailed, decodered, all the niggling bits sorted out, they run quietly and well.
Crandell
skagitrailbird A friend tried his brand new SD70ACe last night, only to have it derail several times in less than one lap around our club layout. The left rear wheel on the forward truck is not sitting on the rails but is suspended approximately 1/16th of an inch above the rail. Does anyone have an easy fix for this or should he return it?
Roger,
That sure sounds like a warped truck to me, which others have had. I would tell your buddy to return it and get your money back.
Starting to think I may pass, don't like fixing new stuff unless it is a must have for me. But sure is pretty.
Motely can you adjust the volume on the MTH version? What F fuctions can you control?
Thanks for all the answers folks.
CudaKen...
The Athearn SD70ACe is a pretty nicely detailed model and looks very good - when the parts are not falling off.
The assembly quality, i.e, poorly done paint, sloppy glue smears, etc - have plagued a lot of these since the release.
I went ahead and bought all the UP versions, but had to spend about 2-3 hours on each, on average, to get everything as it should be - both cosmetic and mechanical.
I'm not so enthusiastic about future purchases.
But the MTH ComfortCab verisons in UP and BNSF roadnames have been pushed back till April -which is disappointing.
There has been an emerging problem with the Truck Sideframes, being warped and with all axles not touching the 'ground' - this creates derailments, mainly occurring on turnouts.
I believe that Athearn is well aware of the problem and I've heard from several hobby shops,that Athearn is in the process of determining what to do about it.
There has been some speculation among hobbiests that Athearn is going to re-tool the truck sideframes, presumeably on future releases - but that is not something I've confirmed - yet.
If so, Athearn will probably be glad to replace defective sideframes, in the event that they, in fact, do offer new ones.
I have a few fellow modelers that have sent their models back to Athearn directly for truck replacement -if there's a problem with them, I'm not sure this will solve anything unless they do have a replacement now available.
I haven't experienced any problems with mine in that regard -at least not yet.
If you intend to buy one and are considering the sound feature, my advice is to just get the sound -equipped versions.
The reason is that, as another poster already mentioned - the removal of the shell is a nightmare -very tight fitting due to the design of the chassis detail strip being glued to the body sill.
Expect damage to paint and a likely possibility of breakage of the sand lines it is nearly inevitable. These parts are made of Celcon, like the handrails, and do not hold paint well - you will be repainting the lines and other parts.
Soundtraxx was kind enough to provide a set of CV changes, that would enhance the sound of the factory installed sound decoders.
For those who have sound versions and want to improve the quality and volume of the soundfiles, here is a list of the CV's to adjust that should maximize the quality of your sound -equipped engine:
CV 128 to a value of 235
CV 129 to a value of 255
CV 130 to a value of 85 ( I prefer 55-60)
CV 131 to a value of 150 ( I prefer 165-170)
CV 143 ------------- of 60
CV 153 ------------- of 7
CV 156-------------- of 165
CV157--------------- of 140
CV158--------------- of 160
CV 159-------------- of 145
CV160--------------- of 200
CV 161-------------- of 8
CV 162-------------- of 180
CV 163-------------- of 32
CV 164-------------- of 32
CV 169-------------- of 10
If you make a mistake, just reset CV8 to a value of 8 which returns to factory default. I recommend a power-off and back on after 10 seconds for a full reset.
I hope this helps.
While the Athearn engines are really well detailed, I'm not real impressed with the quality for a top of the line engine -the MTH version, while having a few of its own shortcomings(don't know of one that doesn't), is IMO, is better engineered and performs much better.
I'm planning to do a 'HEAD-ON' comparision review of both engines with side by side photos and pros vs. cons of each, in the near future.
Both models are well done examples of the prototype so its a matter of what you consider the better buy.
Thanks,
I have the MTH version and looked at it side by side with the Athearn. The Athearn bent railings was the first noticed difference. Of course the sound is no where near as good as the MTH since the baffling isn't good. The speakers are in the main body. So, I bought the MP Heritage from MTH, it was my first MTH and it is great. BTW, it has metal handrails.
The MTH also has the function controlled couplers which work OK on large radius track. Only issue with MTH is that you can't reconfigure all the CVs since it's really DCS not DCC. Also, to get to all of the functions, you will need more than the 12 or so on a lot of cabs.
So, my next SD70ACe will probably be the non sound MTH and I will add the Soundtraxx decoder. I really like the controllable couplers, but sometimes on 26" R there are issues. On my 36"R I haven't had problems.
Richard
cudaken Starting to think I may pass, don't like fixing new stuff unless it is a must have for me. But sure is pretty. Motely can you adjust the volume on the MTH version? What F fuctions can you control? Thanks for all the answers folks. Ken
Here's a link to the MTH website online instructions, it will answer a lot of your questions. Yes you can adjust the volume and many other things.
http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/download/instruction/80dl15194i.pdf You will have to copy and paste. 28 functions, including the front and rear couplers.
LInk to MTH MP/UP heritage unit
http://www.mthtrains.com/content/80-2007-1 There's a video on this too.
I sent an inquiry to Athearn this morning about the levitated wheel and was very pleasantly surprised to get a response (see below) within three hours or so. It sounds fairly straigtforward so we will give it a try tonight.
Thank-you for your inquiry. We regret to hear about the problem that you have encountered with your locomotive. Please note that there are some options for you to consider in order to correct the problem with the trucks. There is a technique to fix the problem but it is difficult to explain it in this format. First you must remove the trucks from the engine. Place the trucks on a flat surface. (A piece of glass is the best thing to use for this.) Look to see if all the wheels are touching the surface. If they are not then it is a matter of twisting the truck to bring all the wheels into proper alignment. Put each end of the truck in between your thumb and index finger (of each hand) and gently twist/tweak the truck with one hand going one way while the other one goes the other way. Then check to see if all the wheels are touching the surface of the glass. If not try it again with slightly more pressure. Another option is to take the engine back to the place of purchase and exchange it or get a full refund. One last possibility is to send us the trucks and we will either fix them or replace them (when we get new ones in stock) for you. If you should decide to send the trucks back to us please send them to:
Athearn Trains
2883 East Spring Street Suite 100
Long Beach, CA 90806-6834
Attention: Repairs
Be sure to include a note on an 81/2 x 11" piece of paper describing the problem along with your name and shipping address. We recommend that you ship it via UPS or any other carrier that offers a shipment tracking service.
Yes you can control the sound, and the really cool thing is, you can control the volume on the fly! Using F7 it steps through the levels of sounds.
I have an NCE Power Pro and I can use all 28 functions supported by MTH.
Thanks for all the answers.
I deiced to pass on the SD70ACe rather it be Athearn or MTH. While I found the color scheme to be attractive and I do have a few modern diesels I decide to stick with pre 70's engines.
Decide to spend the funds on repairing some of my older engines. Bought 6 new motors for my F units and BL2's and may need new motors for 2 SD50's. $220.00 would buy me 1 new engine, or get 8 older one back on the rails.
Thanks for all your time and interest.
For alittle over three hours last night my friend and I managed to coax the shell off the fram, remove the trucks and twist them pwe the instructions fri=om Athearn. What a job! This is a loc that is definitely not made with much thought given to access for repairs/modifications.
We were able to complete the disassembly and reassembly without breaking anything but did some monor damage along the way. Some of the wires leading from the decoder to the cab/nose were glued to the uderside of the shell roof. In order to get enough separation to remove the trucks we had to pull the wires away from the roof and in the process left 3/4" ir so of the wire insulation on the roof exposing the copper wires. And one of the wires pulled out of its plastic retainer clip. Shrink tubing and a little soldering fixed those oooops'.
We finally got the trucks removed and twisted them per the Athearn instructions, checkin their flatness on a small piece of glass. Initially this was very successful although we had to twist them much harder that I would have imagined. Nerve wracking to think that the whole thing might snap in your fingers!
Once we had the trucks level, we reassembled everything. This was faster and less stressful than the disassembly but still a challenging task, especially trying to keep track of the sanding tubes so they didn't wind up somewhere inside the chassis. None of them broke off or disappeared but they will need some touch up paint.
That's the good news. But...ultimately the fix was no successful. The trucks sit better than they did but they apparently have some memory of their former warped life (perhaps there is a life lesson here). By the time we got it back together and running on the track, some of the warping had returned. They ride better than previously but still derail too often at turnouts.
It is a real shame. The engine runs very smoothly, the sound is good and the paint and details are excellent but it just won't stay on the tracks. I don't know what my friend is going to do: keep it and keep fiddling, send it to Athearn for replacement trucks (when, if ever, they are in stock), or return it to the original vendor for a credit or refund. Were it me, it would be on its way to the vendor already. Over $200 for an engine that won't stay on the tracks does not fit my business model. But it was an interesting experience.
By the way on the MTH loco's you cannot adjust the individual sounds. The only sound control is the main volume using F6
You can adjust the main volume with any 28 function throttle.
If you want to spend about $180 for the MTH hand-held commander, and the Track Interface unit, it will allow you to access the individual sound volumes, turn on and off individual sounds and will eventually be able to make programming changes via the track interface unit and your computer.
I bought one a few years back and its been a good tool because I update so many models for people. But it a lot of money to adjust sounds- I don't recommend buying it for what you want to do..if you're going to go MTH, for your needs, Id get a DCC ready one and have the decoder added.
HF1
I all ready have one pain in the caboose Engine to take a part, a BLI GE AC 6000. It is on the RIP track now because it sucked up a rail spike into the speakers. Must be something about the shape of the engines far as it being hard to take the shell off.
I just thought I'd throw my $.02 worth in.I have both mth and athearn aces.Both sound both BNSF.The mth doesn't have correctly painted underframes.It is molded grey not painted silver like it should be. The number on the cab isn't quite right and it lacks the detail of the athearn.It does run and pull well but the their dcs system is hard to figure out on dcc.
The athearn definitely has sound issues(too quiet).I'm working on the proposed fix at the moment.The detail is quite good and mine doesn't have any glue on it.One thing to keep in mind is that the more detail the harder it is to work on so there is a trade off.The shell comes off easier than the mth IMHO but yes care must be taken and some touch up of the sander lines will be expected.So far mine runs well but does not have the pull power of the mth but also IMHO neither pulls like it should considering the prototype.The athearn also has awesome detail and all the colors/printing are more correct than the mth.
I guess in my opinion athearn and mth both have things to work on and for that kind of money both should be right out of the box.I think that if athearn is willing to fix problems on units already purchased than it's a toss up.In order to fix the problems I encountered (and am picky about) the athearn is an easier fix.Disassembling the whole loco to paint the underframe is no small task and the dcs deal isn't favorable.Buy the mth without sound and add it plus other road names are more correct than the BNSF versions.Buy the athearn and possibly deal with some sound/running issues.
Also just received intermountain es44ac's BNSF.Ran them yesterday for a few laps.Great runners so far and the non sound unit comes decoder equipped and it matches the sound unit in speed out of the box.They look great but the speed steps and sound needs a little tweaking as the horn sound is too quiet out of the box but that's easy to deal with.Detail is really good and I'm still figuring out all of the functions.Headlights,ditchlights and numberboards are all separate.Excellent! Kadees are already installed.I need some time but so far I'm impressed with these.
Al Mann
There's also another thread running now in the electronics section that has recommended settings for the Athearn Tsunami decoder.