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Smoke box color/material?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Kansas City Area
  • 1,161 posts
Posted by gmcrail on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:16 PM

wjstix

gmcrail

I have discovered that the best wayy (for me) to duplicate this color is to use a product called "Neolube" - a suspension of powdered graphite in alcohol.  Painted on the smokebox, it comes out the color of (guess what?!) graphite! Here's an example:

Neo-lube works well for "painting" rail too, it comes out with a flat dark gray that IMHO looks very good. It seems to stay on very well too, I've never had trouble with it peeling off or wearing off.

 

One thing you do need to remain aware of when using Neolube:  it is electrically conductive, so if you're painting rail, be careful not to paint it over any rail gaps.

 

drwayne, thanks for the kudos.  Coming from you, that means a lot!

---

Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

===================================

"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins

===================================

http://fhn.site90.net

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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 12:01 PM

Thanks, Ed.  The 3734 belongs to a friend and, as an avid CNR fan, he's well aware of the history of that loco.  However, he's not a rivet counter, either.  Wink   Many of his locos are models of ones that are either still in existence or were the last ones of their class to be scrapped.  I was unaware, when I added the Elesco to that model, that it was incorrect, but, as they say, "the customer is always right".Smile,Wink, & Grin  I currently have another of his brass locos to paint which is an S-1-a, but will be numbered for different class of Mike.  Of the CNR locos shown, the three Mikes, one of the Ten-Wheelers, and the USRA 2-10-2 all belong to him, with paint and detail work done by me.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Coffin feedwater heater, and will be converting a Bachmann 2-8-0 to DW&P N-2-a, for my own layout. Big Smile

Wayne

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 9:20 AM

Hey Wayne...

I see you have the GTW 3734 under the coal tower! Looks great but the 3734 didn't have an Elesco feedwater heater.

I'm not a rivet counter but I am familiar with the 3734 which was renumbered 4070 sometime around 1956 or so. I worked on the 4070 in Cleveland and it has a Coffin feedwater heater with a turbine pump mounted behind the fourth driver not a piston pump on the side of the boiler.

ED

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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:05 AM

gmcrail

I have discovered that the best wayy (for me) to duplicate this color is to use a product called "Neolube" - a suspension of powdered graphite in alcohol.  Painted on the smokebox, it comes out the color of (guess what?!) graphite! Here's an example:

Neo-lube works well for "painting" rail too, it comes out with a flat dark gray that IMHO looks very good. It seems to stay on very well too, I've never had trouble with it peeling off or wearing off.

Stix
J&J
  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Turner Valley AB
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Posted by J&J on Monday, November 2, 2009 9:55 PM

 Wayne,

 If I ever get it finished and it turns out half decent, I'll post it.

 

Jeff

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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, November 2, 2009 9:32 PM

Gary, nice job on that MDC 10-Wheeler. Thumbs UpThumbs Up

 

J&J

 Wayne,

 Great photos!!!!  And good timing.  As a first try at this, I'm in the middle of a rebuild of an old Pemco 2-6-0 following an article by John Pryke in Model Railroaders August 2008 issue where he rebuild a IHC 2-6-0 for his New Haven.  I'm at the painting stage and found your article.  Keep up the good work...

 

Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff. Smile 

Speaking of Moguls, my first brass loco was a B&M B-15.  While it was a poor runner (I ended-up re-motoring her) she runs very well now, and is a good puller, too.  I free-lance, so I added cab window shades to disguise the arched window-tops, and painted it similar to the steamers of my favourite prototype, the TH&B:

I later acquired an IHC Mogul, and altered it slightly to look more like the B&M loco:

Wayne

  • Member since
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  • From: Kansas City Area
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Posted by gmcrail on Monday, November 2, 2009 4:06 PM

 As most of the previous posters have said, the silvery color is usually due to the graphite in an oil-and-graphite coating the railroads would paint onto the unlagged iron of the smokebox to prevent rust.  While there may have been a few "recipes" out there, according to an old engineer friend of mine, there was usually a barrel of oil & graphite mix kept in the roundhouse, to which a scoop of graphite or a bucket of old oil was added when the level got low.  The colors on the outgoing locomotives would often vary from a dark silvery brown to a lighter silvery color.    In any case, the color would get lighter as the oil evaporated from the heat.

I have discovered that the best wayy (for me) to duplicate this color is to use a product called "Neolube" - a suspension of powdered graphite in alcohol.  Painted on the smokebox, it comes out the color of (guess what?!) graphite! Here's an example:


---

Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

===================================

"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins

===================================

http://fhn.site90.net

J&J
  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Turner Valley AB
  • 2 posts
Posted by J&J on Monday, November 2, 2009 3:41 PM

 Wayne,

 Great photos!!!!  And good timing.  As a first try at this, I'm in the middle of a rebuild of an old Pemco 2-6-0 following an article by John Pryke in Model Railroaders August 2008 issue where he rebuild a IHC 2-6-0 for his New Haven.  I'm at the painting stage and found your article.  Keep up the good work...

 

Jeff

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:36 PM

Oil and graphite would be the most common. Paint would tend to peel off the smokebox and firebox because of how hot they got in operation.  

Stix
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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:37 PM

dti406

On NYC steam engines my custom painter friend would paint the locomotive Flat Black and then mask the smokebox and firebox and then apply Krylon Satin Matte finish (Slightly Shiny). This would give the appearance of a locomotive painted and the heat destroying the shiny finish on the paint.

He also used Scalecoat's Graphite and Oil paint for smokeboxes and  fireboxes, a practice I have continued when painting locomotives.

Rick

For painting steam locomotives, I use Floquil paints, applied with an airbrush.  I like to mix three or four shades of black, starting with Engine Black.  For the cab and tender body, I lighten it slightly with the addition of some Reefer White.  This “lightened black” is further lightened by the addition of some Grey Primer, used on the boiler, smoke box front, pilot, cylinders, appliances (pumps, compressors, etc.) and tender deck.  This colour is further altered with the addition of some Roof Brown to create a “grimy black”, suitable for the running gear and frames of both loco and tender.  Finally, for the smoke box and firebox, I add some more brown and, often, some Caboose Red or Reefer Orange.
These colours are applied to the loco (dis-assembled to whatever degree necessary) without masking, although I do use a card or piece of paper to shield adjacent areas, as required. 
After the paint has cured for several days, it’s ready for lettering.  I generally use dry transfers, so no clear coat is required of the flat Floquil paints.  When using decals, I airbrush only the areas to be decaled with a fairly shiny semi-gloss finish - usually the cab sides, tender sides and rear, and air tanks and cylinders if they’re to receive lettering for test data.  This finish, of course, is allowed to harden fully before applying the decals.
Once the loco has been lettered, I apply various clear finishes, again, applied without masking.  The cab and tender sides and rear get a spray of fairly shiny semi-gloss, while the boiler, smoke box front, pilot, cylinders, and appliances receive a coat of “less-shiny” semi-gloss.  An even flatter semi-gloss is applied to the running gear and frames of the loco and tender.  The tender deck and interior of the coal bunker get an overspray of Dulcote, while the firebox and smoke box get no clear coat, as, to my eye, the dead flat finish of Floquil gives the effect that I want.
I usually re-assemble the running gear, then lightly weather it and the bottom of the boiler before re-assembling the entire locomotive and tender.  I don’t weather my locos too heavily, so I usually also install any window glass and headlight and marker lenses at this time, but if you like heavy weathering, it may be best to leave the glass and lenses until after weathering.
For weathering colours, I again use Floquil, mixed to whatever I think looks appropriate:  I usually use at least four or five different colours or shades of colours, and all are thinned, using lacquer thinner, about 70% to 90%.  It’s much easier to build up layers of different colours than it is to try to remove “too much”.  For “soot” along the boiler top and cab roof, straight engine black, thinned severely, works well for me.  The running gear is weathered with the loco moving in the spray booth, either under its own power or pushed by hand, with the motor disengaged.

Here are some examples:

Athearn Mikado -


Athearn Mikado -

Various brass steamers -


Some Bachmann -


And a modified Proto USRA 0-8-0 -

Wayne

 
 
 

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Posted by twhite on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:17 AM

I use Floquil 'Graphite' mixed with a bit of Floquil Old Silver to get the medium gray appearance of the graphite that Rio Grande used on many of their locomotives during the WWII era.  Later on, the Rio Grande tended toward aluminum. 

Tom

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  • From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
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Posted by dti406 on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:08 AM

On NYC steam engines my custom painter friend would paint the locomotive Flat Black and then mask the smokebox and firebox and then apply Krylon Satin Matte finish (Slightly Shiny). This would give the appearance of a locomotive painted and the heat destroying the shiny finish on the paint.

He also used Scalecoat's Graphite and Oil paint for smokeboxes and  fireboxes, a practice I have continued when painting locomotives.

Rick

 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

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Posted by Dean-58 on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:00 AM

As said above, most smokeboxes and firebox sides and bottoms aren't lagged, so the heat changed the color of the paint.  However, from the late 1800s into the 20th century many RR companies dolled up their locos with shiny paint, extra brass, etc.  Some companies, such as the B&O, used Russia Iron boiler jacketing and many fancied up the smokeboxes with graphite coatings.  Russia Iron ranged from a bluish tinge to a sort of silver gray, and there were several good articles in MR and RMC 20-30 years ago to tell you how to achieve this---including using a vintage VW color called "Polar Silver," which is no longer available but was once sold in touch-up spray cans.

Someone once wrote in to MR's "RPO" (letters to the editor) with an old formula he found for graphite coating for smokeboxes that involved the graphite, something called plubago, and several other ingredients.  Floquil made it easy for us when they brought out a lacquer called (strangely enough!) "Graphite"---or was it called "Smokebox Graphite"?  At any rate, any old photos you see of Turn of the Century steam locos which seemed to have smokeboxes painted silver, it was probably some form of graphite, as aluminum paint didn't become available until well after 1900.  Incidentally, many photos in "B&O Power" show what appears to be locos painted "Grimy Black," with much lighter gray on the fireboxes and running gear and a few modelers, such as Paul Jansen. achieved this interesting affect.

Dean "Model Railroading is FUN!"
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Posted by AlreadyInUse on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:04 AM

doctorwayne, thanks for the great tutorial on boiler insulation. To learn more about it, I googled "boiler lagging" and came across this site that describes the construction of a 1/8 scale live steam three truck shay. I found the article and the associated links fascinating. (He ended up using cork lagging.)

http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/Shay/shay.htm

 

You can never have too much glue
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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:28 AM

On most locomotives, only the boiler is covered with insulation, called lagging, made from blocks of either asbestos or magnesia.  This is then covered with sheet metal and then painted.  The smokebox and firebox, however, were usually not lagged, as most railroads felt that the added expense was not required where heat loss was of lesser importance.  Paint applied to these uninsulated areas was exposed to much higher temperatures, resulting in a much different appearance.  Some roads, like Southern Pacific, applied aluminum paint to these areas, while other roads used a mixture of oil and graphite to better withstand the heat.  Norfolk & Western, among others, did apply lagging to these areas on many locos, resulting in a more uniform appearance over the entire length of the boiler barrel.

In the photo below, you can clearly see the difference in finishes between the insulated boiler area and the uninsulated smokebox.

Wayne 

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  • From: Michigan
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Smoke box color/material?
Posted by AlreadyInUse on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:50 AM

Why is the smoke box on some steam locomotives a different color material or paint? Did this reflect a modification?

You can never have too much glue

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