ANYONE MODELLING THE NEW YORK SUBWAY or any other underground railway system?

[lupo]

Nice to see this old topic kicked back up front! [:)]
new ideas are always welcome [tup]
Nice work dinwitty! like the sound coming out of your website!

[vsmith]

If your modelling the Subway, dont forget to add a couple storm sewers and a couple of alligators poking their snouts thru the grating[:P][;)]

[Anonymous]

This link has some useful photos and infromation on els - including one of the only heavy rail elevated lines: www.oldnyc.com - Enjoy!

[jrbarney]

Admittedly, I didn't click on all the links, but am surprised there was no mention of Images Replicas:
http://www.imagesreplicas.com/hosubway.htm
Maybe, someone could encourage them to make some more runs of the cars that are sold out.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[JBCA]

I've got an HO subway that runs twelve scale miles under my backyard. Of course no one ever sees it because it's a subway.[:D][:D][:D]

[folkestonekeith]

Hi Lupo,
You could model something closer to home - the London Underground - a lot of which is overground!! What many people don't realise is the the London Underground is really two networks - the sub-surface lines (like the Circle, District and Metropolitan lines) which run with large-profile stock just under the surface and the tube lines (like the Bakerloo, Central, Piccadilly, Victoria and Nortern lines) with small-profile stock running in tubes deep underground. On some parts of the system both large and small profile stock share the same lines - like the Distrci and Piccadilly between Acton Town and Ealing Common.
Underground modelling in the UK is starting to gather intererst - it's still a niche market so production is low and prices correspondingly higher but it's something different. Look at the website www.metromodels.net
Keith

[tatans]

I was about to fire a question as to why no one seems to models mass transit systems in NY or Chi? I think the above ground (EL) would be a great system to model, lots of buildings,lots of action in the streets,even have a bit of semi-country out in the burbs. What about the elevation bridge system itself? are these girders and associated above- street -platform works available, as you would need a pile of them? And, what about authentic models of the trains themselves, readily available? thanks.

[dinwitty]

http://www.geocities.com/kidat50/index.html

I will be doing some chicagish modeling including some EL work, no subway, but I plan on some representative model of the freight tunnels, I found the HOn3 mine train which will work fine, but the chicago tunnels were 2 ft, oh well.. 8-}

[Anonymous]

For modelling Boston trolleys, there are two invaluable photo books in the Images Of America series published by Arcadia:
* Trolleys Under The Hub
* Boston In Motion
If you're in the Boston area, a number of bookstores are likely to have these in stock -- Globe Corner Bookstore downtown, Borders up by the malls in Danvers.
Great inspiration!

For a different approach check out this fun T-Trak module:
http://www.t-trak.org/TH-Euro1.html

[mustanggt]

I wish lifelike would make more subway trains, like chicago's El trains, or even an MBTA red line train. Era wouldn't matter, but the newer bombardier cars would be pretty cool....

[MisterBeasley]

I'm planning a subway, loosely modelled on Boston. I got the Life-like R-17's last week for the heavy rail part, and I'll be looking for a PCC-type trolley for the light rail, although I'll probably by non-prototype-compliant and run them over the same lines. Most of the tracks will be underground and invisible, but the stations will be seen edge-on from the side of the layout, with buildings above. I've got to think a bit more about access, though.

Eventually, I want to add an engine-cam video to the front car, so the tunnel and subway station scenery will be "seen" from the motorman's perspective. Part of the challenge is mass-producing "scenery" for the inside of the tunnels.

Yeah, it's a dream, but the lumber for the benchwork is out in the garage, the R-17's are up in the family room on a test track (they're sweet) and my first passengers are in transit on a UPS truck from rocousa.com.

[Leon Silverman]

If you want a system with variety, try modeling the downtown Philadelphia area. In addition to an El, you have subway-surface trolleys which partially parallel the el, until they both cross a total subway line, at which point the subway surface loops around both underground lines for the return trip. The subway surface line has two exits beyond the el with the trolley going off in a total of three different direction.
Add to this confusion, there is a commutor tunnel near the center city intersection where full size commutor trains run. The PRR and Reading railroads had separate downtown terminals. The tunnel connects these formerly separate lines so that the trains now run through center city rather than reversing themselves to back out in the same direction.

[Anonymous]

LUPO - thanks for comment re; my post. Brought back memories of my first ten years growing up in NYC. Check out the recommended websites referred to earlier in this 'topic' , esp www.nycsubway.org An incredible amount of useful and fascinating info and tremendous photo archive. Saw pics of IRT, BMT & IND cars I rode, the station at 82nd St/Jackson Heights on Flushing Line where I used to sneak under the turnstyle when I was 7 or 8 to meet my Dad on the platformh when he was coming home from work in Manhattan. There is a good section on the (Hudson) 'Tubes' now PATH trains we used to take to Hoboken when it was too cold to take the ferry. There's even a bit of my old apartment building peaking over the tops of some IRT cars in the 82nd St station; can actually see my old kitchen window! My wife yawned when I showed it to her. . .Anyway thanks for introducing this topic - brought back good memories. Bit more obtuse trivia-there was at least one, possibly more, model railroad shops in shopping arcades in subway station underground. May have been at Times Square or Grand Central Subway Station. . .

[lupo]

Wow Bill, quite some info here!
as I started this topic I was just curious how a subway layout would look, but your idea
about the maintenace and storage yard, the elevated track, steep grades and very tight curves and switches. may be a nice addition to a layout, put it in a corner the maintenace facility on an elevated piece of the lay-out, continuing on elevated track and with a steep curved grade the tracks vanish below ground underneat the rest of the lay-out.
could give a nice perspective in a city lay-out.
I guess the curve-radius for these subway trains could be much closer as for the normal modelrailroad.

LUPO

[Anonymous]

In the '40s and '50s I was living on the fifth floor of an apartment in Queens NY within eyesite and earshot of the elevated portion of the I.R.T. subway that is a 4-track main with both local and express tracks w/ stations approx every 8-10 streets (we called them blocks). Some of the stations were local only stops and the express trains really ripped through those stops. Shortly after tunneling under the East River from Manhattan the trains would emerge into the 'aboveground ' on a fairly steep grade and cross most of Queens going underground just short of Flushing-the end of the line. I remember very tight curves and switches as well as complicated trackage-crossovers, etc. The tracks ran near the sites of the N.Y. World's Fair and Shea Stadium. But what I most remember was the proximity to PRR's Sunnyside Yards and the massive Subway shops & storage tracks closer to Flushing in Corona. believe there was an overpass of the Long Island RR at approx. 72nd St. in Jackson Heights but the mind is fuzzy on that point. The trains ran every few minutes and were incredibly noisy. One could incorporate hidden staging tracks at each end of a layout design (no need for reverse loops) and model the entire system that was 'aboveground' This line is still in operation and the 4 track main is still in use. Now if you could even include a bit of the Sunnyside Yard too. . .The Long Island City area was fairly industralized back then; and probably still is. . . (Haven't been back there in years,) Proto 1000 cars may actually be modeled after the I.R.T. cars in use for several decades but I haven't seen them up close. There were similar 'aboveground' portions of the NYC subway system in Brooklyn and I think in upper Manhattan and the Bronx. At one time there were elevated subways all over the NYC area, esp in Manhattan, but they were removed 50 or more years ago. They used really ancient equipment, not at all like the Proto 1000 models, along 2nd and 3rd avenue in Manhattan-remember not enjoying the couple of rides on the 3rd Ave. El-dirty, dark,and horrible rattan seats. The Proto 1000 cars appear to be much newer than those ever used on those long since defunct elevated lines. Also, keep in mind that not all of the NYC subway equipment was interchangeable throughout the system due to width of cars dictated by station platform clearances. I'd suggest you contact Trainworld since they are right in NYC area or Life-Like for prototype information. Two books I can recommend are - "Building the Independent Subway" by Frederick A. Kramer (Quadrant Press) and "The Brooklyn Elevated " by James C. Greller & Edward B. Watson (N. J. International) - both very well illustrated and informative re: equipment, operations, stations, construction and plenty of period photos. I'm sure there are other similar publications. Suggest you get good at resin casting if you intend to model all that above -street supporting steel work! Another option would be to just have a sound recording of the subway and 'model' only the underground portion of the system! Hope you proceed with your 'subway' layout.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Another spectacular link!!!! Thank you NYSubway18

[NYSubway18]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread, Elliot.

Thanks to MTH, most of us New York Subway fans now model in O, because it was the only scale with readily available subways. They've produced 8 different sets to date, with several more in the works. While the size and lack of space makes it difficult, and HO would have been better - most of us are so deep in now it's too late to turn back just because Proto finally stepped up to the plate. There are those out there that have been doing it in HO for years - all scratchbuilt. Check out this site, and go to the Layouts page.

http://www.monmouth.com/user_pages/patv/railroad.html

[Jetrock]

Trying to beat the Chicago model in the Museum of Science & Industry would be hard indeed--most of the models of the El are small, maybe 6-10 feet, because city modeling and El modeling are very, very labor intensive!

[Anonymous]

I think the Chicago El & Subway would be extremly cool to model. 90% of it is above Ground & you would have to model Wrigley Field into it also. It would take forever but it would be very cool when done.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by elias

plexiglass streets would be cool so u could see the whole subway system

A cool idea for "cut and cover", I wonder what the mayor would say?[swg][swg][swg]

I know you were just thinking of modeling, but its fun to think BIG sometimes.[:D]

[AntonioFP45]

Elias, Good idea!

[;)]You got something there.

How about just plexiglass over the subway tunnel & station portion only and have pre-cut gray styrene or plastic streets already painted to resemble concrete that would neatly fit on top of the plexiglass for whenever we want to hide the underground view.

Plexiglass cutaway models in museums are common. Just a thought, but I really think it's doable!

Thanks again![:)][8D][^]

[:D][8D]

[Anonymous]

plexiglass streets would be cool so u could see the whole subway system

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

[:)][:D][8D][;)]Thanks for the kind words, Big_Boy_4005.

[:)][8D]I hope that Lupo reads this thread again and goes to the website. It is pretty impressive and offers so many good ideas for anyone thinking about building an urban theme for his or her layout., regardless of scale.

God Bless!

Thanks Antonio, great website and thanks all others for your posts, I had no chance to reply earlier because of a major @#$% up with my ISP, no internet connection for allmost 3 days!
Bigboy4005 was right about the me and UP but as I was reading my MR mag I found these newyork subway set and I wondered how a lay-out from someone modelling an subway system would look like. I am a very curious guy.
As I am still in the planning phase, I rule out nothing, there are some great ideas around, special the work Maureen is planning!
I am looking forward to the first pics of your layout!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

Hi Maureen,
do you got your inspiration from LOTR?
does your layout resemble any of the structures used in that film?
must look cool!
makes me curious!

We started design and planning at the end of 2000, before any of the movies came out. We're not trying to model the vision of the movies. There's a great LOTR tradition where each artist creates their own vision of what the world looks like. And plus, we're modelling the early steam age (and the first electric trolley in the big city), several hundred years after the time of Tolkein's story.

Our plan is to get a website up shortly after we have the first track glued down. First table frame is up (Hobbiton/Gray Havens module), pink foam is rising, track is on hand.... If life doesn't keep intervening, at some point we'll actually have trains running. [:I] But the delay in trackwork has worked out well. We now have Atlas code 55 (N) that wasn't available when we started, and we have better DCC options available now. We'll buy the DCC system immediately after track is laid to have the most current options.

We've been working on structures steadily all along, so the scenes will fill up pretty rapidly once the trackwork is laid and tested. Right now we're polishing up some fun structures for Hobbiton, putting shopfronts and pubs in arched arcade walls.

We now have all of the kits on hand for Gray Havens, Hobbiton, Bree, Rivendell, and Mirkwood, and some for Esgaroth, the Iron Hills, Mordor, Lorien, and Minas Tirith. Many are complete or near-complete. All the unbuilt ones have already had their kit-bashing worked out, sketched, and measured; so we know their exact footprints and how they will fit into the scenes.

Cheers,
Mo

[Big_Boy_4005]

Antonio, Lupo is a big UP fan, I think this was more of a rhetorical topic for him, but a fun one just the same. [swg][swg][swg][tup]

[AntonioFP45]

[:)][:D][8D][;)]Thanks for the kind words, Big_Boy_4005.

[:)][8D]I hope that Lupo reads this thread again and goes to the website. It is pretty impressive and offers so many good ideas for anyone thinking about building an urban theme for his or her layout., regardless of scale.

God Bless!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Excellent website Antonio!!! Thanks.
http://home.att.net/~sctransit/NYCMTA1.htm

Uh oh, I SAW GRAFFITI !!!!

[:D][:D][}:)][:-,][:-,][:-,][:P][swg][swg][swg]
For more graffiti check out these topics.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12825
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12463

[AntonioFP45]

[:)][:D]Lupo,

If you haven't already, go to your search engine (I use MSN) and type in
New York City Model Transit Association. I think you will really like it.

Featured is a very impressive club layout featuring the El / Subway system. Lots of nice closeup shots. Even though it's O-scale, you will pick up a lot of great ideas! You can e-mail them and ask if the club or any of the club members have additional info that they will e-mail you.

Hope this helps!

[lupo]

Hi Maureen,
do you got your inspiration from LOTR?
does your layout resemble any of the structures used in that film?
must look cool!
makes me curious!