Hey all,
I am pondering using a speedometer to help me speed match my trains so I can MU them for big inclines... this includes diesels and steamies! Anyway, here are two viable options (besides using a ruler, stopwatch and ol' arithmetic!) that I came up with.... just wondering if any of you use these or have other options?
http://www.cp4e.com/trsped.htm
http://www.trainspeed.com/TrainSpeed1.htm
I look forward to all of your thoughts/input!
Brian
I use a Fleischmann Tachowagen, which appears functionally similar to the unit in first of your two links. It is also towed behind the locomotive, and gives readings in scale kph (as it is made in Germany).
From experience, I would always opt for something that you can tow, and not an item you place trackside - the latter means that you only get a read-out every time it passes by, whereas if the equipment is mobile, you get a constantly accurate readout to work with, in a far quicker time.
I use my tachowagen to successfully load the same 28-step speed curves into all my locomotives -one of the great things about DCC is that ALL of locomotives, of whatever make, can run in consist with any other, once their speeds are balanced in this way, via CV29 Bit4-1.
Brian M
I have one from "Model Railroad Technologies" that I got from Caboose Hobbies in Denver. $79.00. It can do HO or N scale. It has a "tunnel" that can be set anywhere over the track. As the train runs through it measures the speed. I love it. We had a lot of fun with it at our last open house. I set it over the track where the public could see and we played "guess the speed of the train".
http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=45422
Brian,
Those speedometers seem like a lot of wasted effort if you are speed matching DCC locomotives. Usually just run them 'uncoupled' and see what happens. Here is my way of speed matching. I try to get most of my freight engines to run at a maximum speed of about 70 scale mph. Here goes:
CV02 - Vstart - Starting voltage(Set it to just start the engine as the throttle is notched up)
CV05 - Vmax - This one sets your maximum speed for the engine(throttle maxed out).
CV06 - Vmid - I set this one so that the engine runs about 30-35 scale mph.
If you have momentum or speed stabilization/BEMF turned on, you may need to adjust those CV's as well. I have a 'measured' timing distance and adjust CV05 until the engine is running about 70 scale mph. Setting CV02 is just a matter of adjusting the value so that the engine stats moving as I advance the throttle.
I keep a log of all my settings using Decoder Pro. That way, if I pick up a new P2K GP9, I can use the prevoius settings for my other ones and start there. Once I have the engine 'in the ball park', I do the MU test with the engines uncoupled to see if they are matched. You can figure an HO scale 60 mph as about 12" per second.
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Thanks for the input. I think the speedometers help match speeds better than any CV table alone, but perhaps this is just me and my relative newness to DCC (only 2 years of using it!)... Again, I appreciate all the input. I will have to try out Decoder Pro too... I don't have a computer hooked up (yet) but it sounds fun!
With all due respect to jrbernier and wjstix, using only two CVs (plus momentum in 3 & 4) to adjust the mid and start speeds is very "rough and ready", and will not give you nearly as much running similarity as you would by inputting a whole 28-step custom speed-curve using CV29 Bit4-1 and then CVs 67 through to 94.
This allows you to give each speed step a specific speed, so that each locomotive you own (irrespective of manufacturer) will run at an identical speed at each speed step. This is why a wagon towed behind the locomotive IS so useful - you decide upon a specific set of speed levels you require for all your locomotives, and then adjust each loco to match each selected speed at each point in the 28-step curve, using the read-out from the towed wagon to adjust things accordingly. It's best (obviously!) to do this on a loop where all the track is constantly visible, so that you can always see the read-out.
As an example, using this method, all of my locomotives will run at a scale 8mph at speed step 5, 12smph at step 7 etc. That is something you cannot achieve simply by using one start point, one mid point and one max point, especially with the different running characteristics of different manufacturer's motors.
So the statement "a speedometer would only help you match the top speed basically" is incorrect. You will still have to adjust momentum individually too, with this method, but that is not too much of a problem, and takes only a couple of minutes to match them up, using a "master" locomotive.
This method obviously takes a wee bit longer than just using three CVs, but provides an almost perfect match. I reckon I can input a 28-step speed-curve into a locomotive in 20 minutes. My BLI and IM Cab-Forwards, Bachmann consolidations, Athearn Genesis and Proto F7s, Proto SD7s, SD9s, GP9s, FA/Bs, 2-8-8-2s and Trix mikados ALL run at identical speeds right through the 28 steps.
Brian;
Check out my link in my sig....On the bottom of the page, I have a great MPH calculator that works for all scales...
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
I personally use the very complicated and complex IGAI system which works very well for me. IGAI stands for "I GUESS AT IT"!...
Tracklayer
To quote Red Green, I use the most advanced and accurate tool I have: my eyes.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I used to inspect equipment for the club, for locomotives I made a 10 foot mark and timed it for slow, mid, and high speeds. Then the operator had an engine card and could estimate the running speed based on throttle position.
I tried to make a speedometer car but the project waffed, never finished it. I decided doing a speedometer isnt really the big deal that it needs to be or could be, its a nifty oh thats cool, but I don't thinkl for the model I will be trying to run at required "35mph" limits than to guessimate my speed. I think its an interesting idea if you have one to use to work the mind how fast your really going, but I will use my eye as my speed guess. I know when my train is slow, and fast...
I use
Or I would, If I could find mine again...
25 bucks at walmart/target/hobbytown USA
-Morgan
Flashwave... how do you convert the readout to scale mph when you use that "gun"???
IronGoat
You can do it by timing the train as it goes around the layout. My last layout's continous run loop turned out to be very close to one scale kilometer in length, so it was easy to work out speeds in KPH (If at train took 1 minute to go around the loop, it was going 60 KPH; two minutes = 30 KPH etc.) and then convert that to scale MPH's.
BTW an easy way to measure your mainline is to make up a train of cars and juggle the cars of varying length around until you come up with a train that is say 3' long. Then you can push the 'train' around the layout one trainlength at a time until you've gone all the way around the layout. Then multiply the number of trainlengths by 3' or however long the train is. That way, you don't have to try to use pi to calculate the curved tracks. Once you know how long the mainline is, it's pretty easy to convert that to scale miles, and then to calculate how fast a train is going if it takes x amt of time to go around the layout once.
Of course, you can just mark of a shorter distance on the layout and do it that way, but the longer the 'sample' is you take, the more accurate the result will be.
Isn't how each locomotive performs under load, and the size of that load, going to have a big impact?
I have been debating how I want to approach speed matching, and wondering how useful it would be outside of a MU of identical locmotives since once you put some cars behind the loco its speed is going vary from model to model, or so it would seem to me.
chris
johncolley wrote:Why the need for "gadgets"? I'm lucky, I guess, because I use mostly all 40 footers and all I have to do is count seconds for 2 cars to go past a tree, signal, building, or any other object. Real 60 mph = 88 ft/sec. HO is 1/87 scale and 40 foot cars are about 6" over the couplers, eh? So 2 cars = 1 foot and 1 second = 60 mph approximately, which my late '40's/early '50's freights would never do. But the rest is very simple math....2 sec= 30mph, 3 sec=20, 4 sec=15, 5 sec=12, 6 sec=10, 8sec=7 1/2, 10 sec=6, 12 sec=5. Enjoy! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
Good idea, John.... I have all 40 footers also, so that'll work just fine!!!
Thanks, Bob ( IronGoat )
Brian M wrote: With all due respect to jrbernier and wjstix, using only two CVs (plus momentum in 3 & 4) to adjust the mid and start speeds is very "rough and ready", and will not give you nearly as much running similarity as you would by inputting a whole 28-step custom speed-curve using CV29 Bit4-1 and then CVs 67 through to 94. This allows you to give each speed step a specific speed, so that each locomotive you own (irrespective of manufacturer) will run at an identical speed at each speed step. This is why a wagon towed behind the locomotive IS so useful - you decide upon a specific set of speed levels you require for all your locomotives, and then adjust each loco to match each selected speed at each point in the 28-step curve, using the read-out from the towed wagon to adjust things accordingly. It's best (obviously!) to do this on a loop where all the track is constantly visible, so that you can always see the read-out.As an example, using this method, all of my locomotives will run at a scale 8mph at speed step 5, 12smph at step 7 etc. That is something you cannot achieve simply by using one start point, one mid point and one max point, especially with the different running characteristics of different manufacturer's motors.So the statement "a speedometer would only help you match the top speed basically" is incorrect. You will still have to adjust momentum individually too, with this method, but that is not too much of a problem, and takes only a couple of minutes to match them up, using a "master" locomotive.This method obviously takes a wee bit longer than just using three CVs, but provides an almost perfect match. I reckon I can input a 28-step speed-curve into a locomotive in 20 minutes. My BLI and IM Cab-Forwards, Bachmann consolidations, Athearn Genesis and Proto F7s, Proto SD7s, SD9s, GP9s, FA/Bs, 2-8-8-2s and Trix mikados ALL run at identical speeds right through the 28 steps. Brian
Exactly what I am trying to do!!! Thanks!
Glad I could be of Help, Brian. It's worthwhile spending the time doing it.
Interesting thought. How much did the whole thing cost you? Any pic's of it to share so we could view/get an idea? And, do you remember which magazine/year? (I will search on this!)
Brian M wrote: Glad I could be of Help, Brian. It's worthwhile spending the time doing it.Brian M
I agree... I have some 3.3% grades that require double or triple heading for any real train length... I find consisting them at the base of the hill gives some interesting operations, but you have to have them well matched to get them to work! I have an FA-FB set that works well, (same motor, same decoder, so duh....pretty easy, even for me!). BUT, I just got a GP7 and H16-44, as well as a RSC-2 I would like to have the option of consisting on or two.... I think the time you pay to do it up front RIGHT will make it easier later...
Yes - doing proper 28-step speed-matches allows complete universality of being able to operate any loco with any other.
It is interesting that, in this world-wide, but US-oriented site, there are but two of us (myself and Mike Ruby - see above) independently advocating on behalf of the 28-step speed curve - Mike lives about 4 miles from me, on the other side of Plymouth, in the UK, we both are members the local US Model Railroading club, and I know him well. As can be gleaned from his own answer, he knows how do lots of stuff I couldn't even begin to grasp, but even I can readily custom speed-curve my whole loco fleet using the towed speedo.
My system:
"Looky there, Bubba--that loco's movin' on down the track FAST!"
or
"Let's see what Tim Taylor and some Binford Tools can do to speed up this one."
My thoughts:
One Speedometer is 'fixed', the other mobile. Matching engine drive's gearnig with DC is problematical as you can 'comparison select', but not 'change'.
DCC allows some modifications, but you haven't stated that you HAVE DCC, or which brand therof, therefor I am assuming you don't.
With DC, your best bet is to buy multiples of the same engine, from the same manufacture, and from the came production run. I have three Kato SD-45's, two from the same production run (which run together) and one a year older, which doesn't.
Manufacurers change motors, lighting circuits, etc. People buy DCC to give them increased control - or is it simpler wiring? Individual speed control is one of the benefits of DCC - I think.
IronGoat wrote: Flashwave... how do you convert the readout to scale mph when you use that "gun"??? IronGoat
There's a switch reads "scale"
Also, I saw the Toys R Us in Ohio had booku of them for 7.76 Some Sound decoders will actually tell you the speed.