TheK4Kid wrote: riogrande5671,First I shouldn'thave said Atlas switchews are "junk", I was just tired and frustrated at the time!I slowly ran my Bli engines -a T1 Duplex, an M1a, and M1b, and a J1 trhough the code 100 #6 switches, and YES, I can "SEE" exactly what you are talking about, the wheels "drop down into" as if they just hit a "pot hole".
riogrande5671,First I shouldn'thave said Atlas switchews are "junk", I was just tired and frustrated at the time!I slowly ran my Bli engines -a T1 Duplex, an M1a, and M1b, and a J1 trhough the code 100 #6 switches, and YES, I can "SEE" exactly what you are talking about, the wheels "drop down into" as if they just hit a "pot hole".
Thank you, thank you, thank you! heh heh. Atlas code 100 turnouts basically have a pot hole! LOL The frog is blunt and leaves a wider gap that other more expensive turnouts which have a sharper frog that sticks out more and leave more rail to ride on and a smaller gap.
What I see as being the problem is the "gap" between the "frog point" and the rail is slightly too long, not giving support to the wheels, and they "drop down" just as you described.I did however also find the guard rail on one side was higher than the rail next to it, not much, but just slighlty.
Yep, and any rail or frog that is slightly high can be filed down but the pot hole will still be there.
My mistake when I bought the switch was listening to one of the so called "expert train guys" at a LHS who recommended the #6 switches.I also have some other Atlas switches on the layout, and they too have the "pot hole" but ot as bad as the #6 switches.
The #6 turnouts are longer and will have a longer gap too. That is logical. I used only #6 or larger because I wanted my longer base engines and cars to run more smoothly through them and they aren't "That" much bigger than #4. In the olden days when I was a teen, I remember my Athearn SD45 with 6 axles and it didn't like #4 turnouts at all. So I vowed after that to use #6 as a minimum.
Anyway, the guy at the shop may have perceived you as a beginner and/or not wanting to spend alot on expensive turnouts and recommended Atlas. Frankly, Atlas are fine for novices and people on a tight budget. I used them on my first large garage layout and they did the job. I still use them in staging tracks where visibity is low and I don't care about looks as much, so I use all code 100 in staging on my 2nd layout, all dismantled now.
So I'll replace a couple of them and observe the results. Thanks for your input, I apprecaite it.TheK4Kid
TheK4Kid
Lots of good choices. Peco are very nice and make a US prototype now. They used to be European only.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
What I see as being the problem is the "gap" between the "frog point" and the rail is slightly too long, not giving support to the wheels, and they "drop down" just as you described.I did however also find the guard rail on one side was higher than the rail next to it, not much, but just slighlty.My mistake when I bought the switch was listening to one of the so called "expert train guys" at a LHS who recommended the #6 switches.I also have some other Atlas switches on the layout, and they too have the "pot hole" but ot as bad as the #6 switches.
So I'll replace a couple of them and observe the results. Thanks for your input, I apprecaite it.
Jim,
All your suggestions are great but the bump in Atlas code 100 #6 turnouts I experienced was a result of the larger gap at the frog in their turnouts. My garage layout had only Atlas code 100 and I watched trains go through my code 100 #6 turnouts and could clearly see the wheels drop down into the wide gap caused by the blunt frog. Look at a Shinohara turnout and the gap is much smaller and there isn't the room for the wheel to drop down into the gap. Its like a mini pot hole. In real life you feel it when riding a passenger car as they pass through turnouts. I observed this bumping effect on all my Atlas code 100 #6 turnouts. The frog was level and all that. It is because they are blunt.
Basically Don Gibson is correct.
To the original poster. Here is the deal. Atlas turnouts are the cheapest "non toy trainset" turnouts on the market. As is most often, you get what you pay for. If you want higher quality, then I suggest you spend more and buy Walthers, Shinohara, Peco or Tilig or Micro Engineering. They cost more but they don't bump either, or it is virtually inperceptable.
I've run Atlas code 100 turnouts, they bump yes, but generally and with a little fine tuning they are very reliable. The bump is caused by the gap (pot hole if you will) because the molded frog is so blunt compared to the better quality turnouts.
Moral of the story, spend less, get cheaper lower quality, spend more, get better smoother etc. Atlas doesn't make junk BTW, but they do offer turnouts which cost nearly half the better quality turnouts. If you can't afford the better brands, then Atlas turnouts can be made to operate reliably for sure. But they look cruder and you'll get more bumping too.
WHEEL BOUNCE: Is the frog too high, or the flangeways too wide and the wheels drop down?
Atlas turnouts are prefabricarted with with compromised tolerances for beginners equipment - at least mine were. Relacing them (with better turnouts I found the eventual answer.
Try a MICRO ENGINEERING or WALTHERS (code 83), or SHINORARA or PECO (code 100), and I think you'll see the difference. Do they cost more? Yep.
They're better made.
Before you 'rip out the switches', a few questions:
The 'bump' going through the frog can be caused by:
I just found an Atlas Code 100 #6 turnout at the club where the metal frog casting was too high, and trains were 'bumping' as the passed through it. I turned off the DCC track power and used the fine cut mill file to 'level' it, in place. Why the track laying crew did not find this last year when laying the track is beyond me. I suspect we have a few other 'installed' turnouts with the same problem. Maybe the turnouts were pulled from the plastic tie molding process too fast and the frogs 'lifted' as the plastic cooled.
I fear that you may have to replace the turnouts that you "Dremel'ed" - making the flangeway deeper has nothing to do with the problem. Any RP25 flange should run through a Code 100 or Code 83 frog casting.
I have 46 Atlas Code 100 turnouts and 10 Code 83 turnouts on my home layout. A little 'dressing' with a file of the points has been the only issue. I did have to replace one of the Code 100 turnouts after a self-inflicted 'meltdown' when I shorted an old twin-coil switch machine(all have been replaced with Tortoise 'stall' motors now).
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Hey TheK4Kid,
Make sure that the height of the frogs are the same as the railheads. Often, on the atlas switches, the frog height is a little greater than the height of the rails. Also make sure the top edge of the points are sharp. If they are rounded or uneven, when the wheels hit them, you have a derailment. Check the guard rails for any defects and file any excess plastic/metal.
Paul
Hi guys,
I have about 12 Atlas switches on my layout so far, and on some of them, as my engines ( BLI Steamers) the wheel flanges will "bump up" as the second set of drive wheels enters the frog. I have used a dremel and deepened the grooves, and this helps but my engines still rock back and forth crossing the switches. I have read PRO and CON for Atlas switches, and I'm about ready to tear them all out and replace them. Going into my freight yard, I was very meticulous with my track laying, getting everything straight, level ,etc, but my engines and cars derail and my engines sometimes short out.
I'm so tired of the hassle of individually modifying each switch to eliminate problems, I feel like Atlas switches are nothing but low quality junk!Any suggestions?