$1,000 for an empty box???

[tatans]

Are these the same people that spend $750.00 on a gucci sweatshirt or $195.00 for a white T-shirt??? Recently a shoe maker is selling sneakers for $15.00 that are exactly like the $200.00 in every detail, and yet guys were saying they would rather pay $200.00 and would never put a pair of $15.00 on their feet. I think the message here about $1000.00 for a box is not the question, it's just how much money do these people have to buy this "stuff" and how did they become so wealthy?????

[tomkat-13]

Some items are priced high because they are popular or "HOT" but not in short supply....this item maybe an one of akind and if you have the set it increases your investment highly.......just watch the Antique Road Show when an old toy w/box or some old basket or vase is appraised at Thousands of Dollars!!!.....if this item was a fake the Lionel Collectors would be all over this....When you are dealing with "TOY TRAINS" you reach a lot larger group than say with ho or n "scale modelers". The larger the group, the more competition thus higher prices for rare items......Well thats my  worth.

[on30francisco]

Are these the same people that spend $750.00 on a gucci sweatshirt or $195.00 for a white T-shirt??? Recently a shoe maker is selling sneakers for $15.00 that are exactly like the $200.00 in every detail, and yet guys were saying they would rather pay $200.00 and would never put a pair of $15.00 on their feet. I think the message here about $1000.00 for a box is not the question, it's just how much money do these people have to buy this "stuff" and how did they become so wealthy?????

Some people in the SF Bay area spend over two million for a crackerbox condo in San Francisco, five dollars for a cup of mediocre designer coffee, over $200 for "official" sneakers or spend hundreds of dollars for designer items at Gucci. Some people either have a lot money to burn or are obscessed with status. Their motto is "if it costs more it has to be better." 

If they were into model railroading, brass locos would be considered low class to them. They'd accept nothing but imported (has to be better) locos made out of gold. 

[river_eagle]

that box is fake just so you all know. First of all there was no set numberd that i checked. Second of all when this man said this box was from the sub car wasn't even out yet.

you really should avoid commenting on things yo know nothing about!

#1 the submarine car, #3830 was cataloged from 1960 thru 1963, the set box is for a 1963 set!!!, also a second submarine car #3820 was also cataloged from 1960-1962

2#

This is the Original Set Box for the #19320 (9886) that Lionel made as a Special Offering Uncatalogued Set for Sears circa 1963.

Oh, if you were literate enough to comprehend what you were reading, or had any actual knowledge on the subject.... one can only dream.

[selector]

Where do these idiots get their money? And where are they when I sell stuff on eBay?

So quoth the baseball card collector, the fly tier, the bowling nut, the furniture restorer, and the guy flipping burgers to make ends meet...

[ProtoWeathering]

Where do these idiots get their money? And where are they when I sell stuff on eBay?

So quoth the baseball card collector, the fly tier, the bowling nut, the furniture restorer, and the guy flipping burgers to make ends meet...

The Golfer, The Bass Fisherman, The Airplane owner, The boat owner, The Art collector, The Entrepreneur, The Stamp Collector, The Coin Collector, The Horseman, The Tractor Collector, The Camera Collector, etc, etc.

I could go on forever with spectiallty collectors and enthuseastists of all things that don't interest us. I wouldn't give you two cents for most any of the previous  interests., but I wouldn't say they were nuts until I got a good education in their respective endeavors...

[SteamFreak]

Some items are priced high because they are popular or "HOT" but not in short supply....this item maybe an one of akind and if you have the set it increases your investment highly.......just watch the Antique Road Show when an old toy w/box or some old basket or vase is appraised at Thousands of Dollars!!!.....if this item was a fake the Lionel Collectors would be all over this....When you are dealing with "TOY TRAINS" you reach a lot larger group than say with ho or n "scale modelers". The larger the group, the more competition thus higher prices for rare items......Well thats my  worth.

But is this Lionel collecting craze just another sign of Baby-boomer narcissism as they try desperately to recreate their youths? I had some American Flyer as a kid and have added some pieces over the years, but recently that market seems headed in the same direction as Lionel. If I were seriously into S, I'd buy cars from S Helper and others, not spend $100 on a toy car that never looked good to begin with. And what's the fun of owning something you can't even run without affecting the value? I guess I'm just not a collector at heart. There's only so much nostalgia I can stomach.

I suppose we should be grateful that there's this much disposable income out there, because it's a sign of a very healthy economy. In leaner times this sort of frivolous purchase would be out of the question for most. Collectible value is set by what people are willing and able to pay, so it's a canary in the coalmine for a recession.

But still, $1K for a BOX?  Sheesh!

[Anonymous]

I just don't get it...why?

But I guess that's the reason I like to keep the boxes all the time!  LOL  Just have to wait about 45 years...

I know some collectibles like first run Star Wars figurines unopened from the 70's will fetch about $600 each but $1000 for box?! *sigh*  Why don't I have a few boxes like that...then my problems would all go away!

[loathar]

Note the last line in the item desciption-(All original "in our opinion")

I did some looking and I can't find any Lionel box that even looks close to this one. They are all shorter rectangles. This is a cube. All the other collector sites selling boxes make a point of showing the printing on the box that says-MADE IN U.S. OF AMERICA and then a round logo under that saying the box was made and printed by the Mead corperation. This box shows no such printing on it.

I did a search for the stock #'s on the box and this E-Bay auction is the ONLY thing that comes up. I can't find any other reference to this set. I'm not saying it didn't exist, but if it's so rare and valuable you'd think SOMETHING else would come up about it. I did find a funny story on a collectors site about an auctioneer shutting down a Lionel auction early and walking out because of the way the collectors were acting.

[Tilden]

I would point out there were six bids on the box and it sold to a floor bidder for $5100.00.  So , if it's a fake, it's a very good fake.  If someone wanted it to complete a set, I wonder what the whole set would go for?

 Still, five grand for a box.....

[BRAKIE]

I would point out there were six bids on the box and it sold to a floor bidder for $5100.00.  So , if it's a fake, it's a very good fake.  If someone wanted it to complete a set, I wonder what the whole set would go for?

 Still, five grand for a box.....

 

If that bidder has a like set that came in that box-I suspect he does at that price-then he will more then likely double or tripple his money.

But,whoa! 5Gs for a box???!!!

[loathar]

Somebody has more dollars than sense.

 

[ProtoWeathering]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

[SteamFreak]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

"Lothar?"

[ben10ben]

Two points-

First of all, don't trash what you don't know anything about. Many people collect Lionel trains like others would collect cars. The prices paid for some of the rare dealer displays would make even some serious car collectors blush-It's a tight market with a limited supply and high demand.

Some postwar pieces are really rare. Logic follows, then, that if a piece is very rare, the proper box to hold that same item is even more rare, since many boxes were destroyed. This is especially true of set master cartons(such as the one for sale in this auction). If you'll read the description, you'll see that it is thought only 200 of these sets were made, and only three master cartons are known to exist. That's pretty darn rare. 

In addition, many of the surviving boxes are in very, very poor condition, to the point where they essentially are useless for holding the trains they were intended to hold. This particular box is in very solid condition. 

Thus, you have a solid box for a very rare set-meaning high dollars. This doesn't automatically make the dirty box that's missing both the end flaps for the 6465 tank car you have in your attic worth thousands-many Lionels, particularly common ones, are only worth a couple of bucks more if they're boxed. It just so happens that this particular one has several factors working for it that make it so valuable. 

Second of all, if you will read the description, you'll note that the item is being offered for sale by Drew J. Bauer.  Mr. Bauer is considered to be one of the top Lionel collectors in the country, and has been buying and selling on Ebay for years. He has built a reputation on this, and certainly wouldn't risk it on selling a potentially counterfeit box. 

The Train Collectors Association also maintains a standing committee which assesses pieces for their legitimacy. It is generally standard procedure for the seller of a high-dollar Lionel item to have the TCA committee look at it and make a determination. Although it is not explicitely stated in the description, rest assured that it more than likely has been determined to be authentic.

[loathar]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

It's spelled LO"A"THAR....

[eeyore9900]

Only 3 know to exist? Sounds like a 1971 Dodge Challenger R/T convertible with a

Hemi.  (2 known to exist if I "remember correctly"-I could be wrong on that)

The final sellling price doesn't surprise me. Collectors in certain circles "know"

the value & rarity of small things that could possibly make a valuable collection

such as the one this box was supposed to come in that much more complete.

"Completists" with $ (& most have have it) sometimes will pay big $ for the

strangest thing for the above reasons. Like those who collect original "Sun"

records. (the label Elvis, J.Cash, J.L. Lewis 1st recorded for) There are some who

want a complete run of Sun releases from the 1st in 1952 to the last in 1966.

There were a few releases that didn't sell well (especially in the early years) &

those do get big bucks at the record auctions. The music on them may or may

not be the best-doesn't matter-having a complete run is these guys goals & will

pay dearly for it.

& I mentioned an old Mopar muscle car at the beginning of this post. Another

factor (especially with restoring older cars) is if a part that's needed in the

process hasn't been reproduced. I own a 1970 Dodge Coronet (not a big block

or Super Bee, Mopar guys) & when I first got it redone, a LOT of parts for

restoration weren't being reproduced, but that's changed considerably in recent

years. But one that still hasn't been (to my knowledge-been out of the circle for

awhile) are the fender lip moldings. Those, if found in good condition, will get a

king's ransom for.

Just my 2 cents worth-I thought ben10ben pretty much summed things up. 

[snagletooth]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

Oh, the irony. That's worth more than that box.

[ProtoWeathering]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

Oh, the irony. That's worth more than that box.

 

Note to Snagletooth: I take PayPal. 

[snagletooth]

Somebody has more dollars than sence.

You detractors ought to look up the word hubris and then Lothar should look up the term "spell check".

Oh, the irony. That's worth more than that box.

 

Note to Snagletooth: I take PayPal. 

[Railfan1]

$5,100

[snagletooth]

$5,100

WHAT, it's up to 5K?! That's way out of my price range. And after all I went through to get it insured. That's really upsetting. I was going to be moving soon and needed a new box to live in. Darn it.

[Dave Vollmer]

$5100.  I don't know whether to laugh or be sick.

I would imagine my entire layout with all of its trains, scenery, electronics, etc. is close to $5100.

$5100 for a box.  An empty box.  It's not like it has the Lionel logo all over it or pictures of the trains that would have been inside.

$5100 more dollars and all of my motive power/DCC/sound needs would be met for my lifetime.

[SteamFreak]

$5100.  I don't know whether to laugh or be sick.

For a little perspective, here's a blurb from Wikipedia:

Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich

On November 23, 2004, a grilled cheese sandwich that contained the likeness of the Virgin Mary was sold for $28,000 in an eBay auction by Diana Duyser from Hollywood, Florida. Duyser explained, "I made this sandwich 10 years ago. When I took a bite out of it, I saw a face looking up at me - it was Virgin Mary starring (sic) back at me. I was in total shock." She kept the toast surrounded by cotton wool, in a plastic container on a stand. Duyser claimed that although a decade old, the toast has not shown any sign of mold or crumbling, which she considered as "a miracle". She also believed its mystical properties have brought her blessings, including a $70,000 win in a nearby casino. The sandwich was purchased by the online casino, GoldenPalace.com, which is known for its publicity stunts. The company said that they planned to undertake a world tour with the sandwich and then sell it, with proceeds going to charity. [3] The pan that was used to make the sandwich was sold on eBay.

 

Proof that there's one born every minute; in fact the sandwich outdoes the cardboard box by $22,900 worth of crazy. Be aware, though, that this is purely an uninformed layman's opinion, as I am not a expert in the value of divinely inspired grilled cheese.

[Anonymous]

I suppose it's another example or micro economy at work where price is determined by supply and demand.

Talking about toast and eBay, few years back if you remember, a flag claimed to be the only flag survived the 9/11 was sold for $340,000 on eBay.  But I think there a lot of outrage etc eBay later removed it.

[Dave Vollmer]

$5100.  I don't know whether to laugh or be sick.

For a little perspective, here's a blurb from Wikipedia:

Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich

On November 23, 2004, a grilled cheese sandwich that contained the likeness of the Virgin Mary was sold for $28,000 in an eBay auction by Diana Duyser from Hollywood, Florida. Duyser explained, "I made this sandwich 10 years ago. When I took a bite out of it, I saw a face looking up at me - it was Virgin Mary starring (sic) back at me. I was in total shock." She kept the toast surrounded by cotton wool, in a plastic container on a stand. Duyser claimed that although a decade old, the toast has not shown any sign of mold or crumbling, which she considered as "a miracle". She also believed its mystical properties have brought her blessings, including a $70,000 win in a nearby casino. The sandwich was purchased by the online casino, GoldenPalace.com, which is known for its publicity stunts. The company said that they planned to undertake a world tour with the sandwich and then sell it, with proceeds going to charity. [3] The pan that was used to make the sandwich was sold on eBay.

 

Proof that there's one born every minute; in fact the sandwich outdoes the cardboard box by $22,900 worth of crazy. Be aware, though, that this is purely an uninformed layman's opinion, as I am not a expert in the value of divinely inspired grilled cheese.

I remember that.  Not to start a religious debate, but since no one can really be sure what the Virgin Mary looked like, I've always wondered how people can see the faint outline of a woman's face and declare it be the Virgin Mary.  I would tend to imagine with all of the trouble in the world, God and His family have better things to do than appear in a sandwich!

Nevertheless, it seems that there are too many people in this world with a fistful of cash and no brain at all.

Why, I earned several hundred dollars on leftover HO junk I couldn't sell at a train show by selling it on eBay.   People were willing to pay more for my used stuff than they would pay for new.

[okiechoochoo]

So you think $1,000 or $5100 is high.  Folk, there is a 1937 set box only for sale on ebay now with an opening bid of $10,000.00.  The box still has Lionel sealing tape on it.  Actually, I am a Lionel collector and although, I personally, would not pay that for a box, I fully understand why many who can would.  If they have the original set in really nice condition, this box will double the value of the set.  The first thing you have to realize is that people like me are not model railroaders, we are collectors, we could car less if the locomotive has the correct number of rivits etc.  It is a totally different way of enjoying a hobby.

[Dave Vollmer]

So you think $1,000 or $5100 is high.  Folk, there is a 1937 set box only for sale on ebay now with an opening bid of $10,000.00.  The box still has Lionel sealing tape on it.  Actually, I am a Lionel collector and although, I personally, would not pay that for a box, I fully understand why many who can would.  If they have the original set in really nice condition, this box will double the value of the set.  The first thing you have to realize is that people like me are not model railroaders, we are collectors, we could car less if the locomotive has the correct number of rivits etc.  It is a totally different way of enjoying a hobby.

Roger that!  Spending over $5000 on a box certainly is a totally different way of enjoying the hobby!

Now, if this box mated with the set will fetch more than the simple some of what the collector paid for each, then it was a very wise investment.  That's the only way I can justify this in my mind.

Of course, I've worked with many, many soldiers and airmen who don't make close to that in an entire month, trying to support their families while serving their country.  The idea of spending that all on an empty box is a tough one to wrangle with.

But it's not my place to tell people what to spend their money on.

[loathar]

$5100.  I don't know whether to laugh or be sick.

For a little perspective, here's a blurb from Wikipedia:

Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich

On November 23, 2004, a grilled cheese sandwich that contained the likeness of the Virgin Mary was sold for $28,000 in an eBay auction by Diana Duyser from Hollywood, Florida. Duyser explained, "I made this sandwich 10 years ago. When I took a bite out of it, I saw a face looking up at me - it was Virgin Mary starring (sic) back at me. I was in total shock." She kept the toast surrounded by cotton wool, in a plastic container on a stand. Duyser claimed that although a decade old, the toast has not shown any sign of mold or crumbling, which she considered as "a miracle". She also believed its mystical properties have brought her blessings, including a $70,000 win in a nearby casino. The sandwich was purchased by the online casino, GoldenPalace.com, which is known for its publicity stunts. The company said that they planned to undertake a world tour with the sandwich and then sell it, with proceeds going to charity. [3] The pan that was used to make the sandwich was sold on eBay.

 

Proof that there's one born every minute; in fact the sandwich outdoes the cardboard box by $22,900 worth of crazy. Be aware, though, that this is purely an uninformed layman's opinion, as I am not a expert in the value of divinely inspired grilled cheese.

Hey SteamFreak-I've still got that Lionel AIR for sale if your interested. I'll make you a great deal on it!

[SteamFreak]

Not to start a religious debate, but since no one can really be sure what the Virgin Mary looked like, I've always wondered how people can see the faint outline of a woman's face and declare it be the Virgin Mary.

Very true. If the sandwich had looked like the real Virgin Mary, that woman probably would have kept stuffing her face.

Hey SteamFreak-I've still got that Lionel AIR for sale if your interested. I'll make you a great deal on it!

Send me a PM. Let's talk $.