Now I am confused. We use the term "gauge" to denote the space between the inside parallel rails and scale as a ratio of model to prototype.
In the case of 1:29, why is it not called 1:29 scale? Isn't this actually G-scale?
Jimmy
Alex
Orignally, G was 1:22.5. It was developed by LGB in Germany. The idea was to use #1 scale standard gauge track as narrow gauge in a larger scale. Meter gauge is popular in Germany for narrow gauge so using #1 scale standard gauge track required a scale of 1:22.5. In this country meter gauge isn't popular so the more convient 1:24 was used. But both had narrow gauge locomotives and cars. Aristocraft was started to provide standard gauge cars that were about the same size as the narrow gauge cars already being used. This required a scale of 1:29. Some folks decided to use the track for 3 ft gauge which led to a scale of 1:20.3 which Bachmann supports. This along with the orginal 1:32 for #1 scale means there are five scales using this track gauge. (There's also a small group using it as 2 ft gauge or approx. 1:13 scale).
So what is G scale? The NMRA defines it as:
The term G is uses to refer to range of scales developed to be able to be operated together, typically in an outdoors setting, for example a garden. G models all use the same wheel and track profiles to facilitate interchange.
Enjoy
Paul
Large Scale is a term for any scale larger than O scale. There are several scales that run on #1 gauge track (45mm) that are commonly referred to, erroneously, as G gauge. Remember in the 50s and 60s when the word "gauge" was used in place of the word "scale?" (eg. HO gauge, N gauge) As you stated, the word "gauge" denotes the spacing between the rails. True G scale has a ratio of 1:22.5 and was first made by LGB to represent European meter gauge, although many modelers use it to model three foot narrow gauge. Trains modeled to the ratio of 1:32 represents accurate standard gauge on #1 gauge track. The scale 1:29 is a compromise that was made so standard gauge trains could be ran next to G scale narrow gauge trains and still look acceptable. In the world of Large Scale, the track gauge (usually #1 gauge) determines the scale. Fortunately, some manufacturers are making an effort to sort out the confusion of scales that use #1 gauge track. Today, the only acceptable use of the word "gauge" in place of "scale" is when referring to O or S Hi-Rail. "O gauge" and "S gauge" refer to trains that run on three rail O and two rail S tinplate (aka. Hi-Rail) track respectively.
Here is a list of some of the mishmash of scales that use #1 gauge track:
#1 gauge - 1:32 - accurate for standard gauge
1:29 - compromised scale so standard gauge trains look acceptable next to G scale narrow gauge trains
1:24 sometimes referred to as H scale. Compromise to represent three foot gauge. Actual gauge is 42 inches.
G scale - 1:22.5 - accurate for meter gauge but commonly used to model three foot prototypes.
F scale - 1:20.3 - accurate for three foot gauge. Gaining in popularity due to support from major manufacturers like Bachmann. Very accurate scale models.
7/8 scale sometimes called M scale. Accurate for two foot gauge. Models are VERY impressive but HUGE.
Thanks for your replies. I understand better now and is able to differentiate between them.
Hi IRONROOSTER
The NMRA definition of "G" is not worth the words used to express it and serves only to further confuse what "G" is.
At the moment in any of the scales mentioned it is not possible to build a model railway of the form represented on this forum, in any of the scales mentioned with out resorting to a lot very severe kit bashing and a heck of a lot of scratch building.
it might be possible in the future if the manufacturers get their collective acts together and standardise on one scale for all.
They don't even put the scales on the box what does that tell you.
A lot of mix and match goes on because of the above in an attempt to get a decent length train that looks right that is the reality for the garden railway crowd of which I am one before any one accuses me of bias
regards John
John Busby wrote:Hi IRONROOSTERThe NMRA definition of "G" is not worth the words used to express it and serves only to further confuse what "G" is.At the moment in any of the scales mentioned it is not possible to build a model railway of the form represented on this forum, in any of the scales mentioned with out resorting to a lot very severe kit bashing and a heck of a lot of scratch building. it might be possible in the future if the manufacturers get their collective acts together and standardise on one scale for all. They don't even put the scales on the box what does that tell you.A lot of mix and match goes on because of the above in an attempt to get a decent length train that looks right that is the reality for the garden railway crowd of which I am one before any one accuses me of biasregards John
Bachmann is promoting what is referred to as F scale with a ratio of 1:20.3. This represents accurate three foot gauge. This scale is starting to become standardized in this country as other manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon while slowly abandoning the mishmash of other Large Scales.
It's absolutely true that there needs to be many more standards implemented for Large Scale, especially track and wheels, to ensure compatability between different brands of manufacturers.
Scatch building and kit bashing, as well as RTR, are strong points of Large Scale since its large size makes it easy to do for all.
I agree. But the definition reflects current usage which is very confused. IIRC, the NMRA tried at one time to promote a different designator for each of the scales, but was unsucessful. The points you list (especially the one about manufacturers not identifying their scale) are why I don't consider modeling in G.
If I am not mistaken, 1:29 is 3 times the size of HO. Makes converting drawings, plans, etc. easier.
Bachmann
Big Haulers and some rolling stock 1:22.5
Spectrum series and some of the other rolling stock 1:20.3
LGB
1:22.5
some of the newer modern equipment is coming in close to 1:29
Aristocraft
Modern equipment 1:29
Classic series 1:24
USA Trains
1:29
MTH
1:32
Marklin
Hartland Locomotive Works
1:24
Accucraft
Depending on the line either 1:20.3, 1:24, 1:29, 1:32
F is actually standard gauge 1:20.3
Fn3 is narrow gauge 1:20.3
GearDrivenSteam wrote:BachmannBig Haulers and some rolling stock 1:22.5Spectrum series and some of the other rolling stock 1:20.3LGB1:22.5some of the newer modern equipment is coming in close to 1:29AristocraftModern equipment 1:29Classic series 1:24USA Trains1:29MTH1:32Marklin1:32Hartland Locomotive Works1:24AccucraftDepending on the line either 1:20.3, 1:24, 1:29, 1:32
Good list. One thing, according to USA Trains home page they also make 1:24
"Ultimate Series" is 1:29 Scale "American Series" and "Work Trains Series" are 1:24 Scale
Unfortunately, on their web site they don't always identify which series a car is in. Also some of their cars appear to be shortie versions, but again are not identified as such though they are listed as 14 3/8" long. Not clear if other dimensions are reduced as well.
on30francisco wrote: Today, the only acceptable use of the word "gauge" in place of "scale" is when referring to O or S Hi-Rail. "O gauge" and "S gauge" refer to trains that run on three rail O and two rail S tinplate (aka. Hi-Rail) track respectively.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
R. T. POTEET wrote: on30francisco wrote: Today, the only acceptable use of the word "gauge" in place of "scale" is when referring to O or S Hi-Rail. "O gauge" and "S gauge" refer to trains that run on three rail O and two rail S tinplate (aka. Hi-Rail) track respectively. I am going to take a "Picky! Picky! Picky!" exception to the above cited quote.If I interpret your moniker correctly you are into On30 modeling; you use HO Gauge every time you tell someone that you model On30 or that you are an On30 modeler. Your scale is 1:48 (O Scale) and your gauge is 16.5mm (HO Gauge). You model O SCALE utilizing HO GAUGE. We do not express it this way but technically you are an OnHO modeler because HO Gauge gives you a track gauge of 31 3/16 inches, close-but-no-cigar to 30 inches. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that if you are ask what On30 indicates you would respond that it is O Scale running on HO Gauge track!HO Scalers run into the same situation using N Gauge track. They call their scale either HOn2½ or HOn30. They could, technically, be called HOnN modelers.So also with N Scalers utilizing Z Gauge track.Those knowledgable of model railroading will usually understand what we are talking about but "scale" is often used where "gauge" would be more appropriate. Do I do this? Yes! I order N Scale track. My hobby shop, however, insists on pawning N Gauge track off on me!Some years ago there was a modeler in St Louis - I believe it was St Louis - who used TT Gauge track to represent standard 3 foot narrow gauge. This gave a scale of 4mm equals one foot; old timers will recognize this as OO gauge; 4mm is the standard scale for HO Scale in the mother country far beyond the pond where they utilize HO Gauge (16.5mm) track and call things HO/OO. So, if you are using 4mm scale and utilizing TT Gauge track then you are an OOnTT modeler. The next time you are out at your club tell everyone that you are considering changing scales and modeling Oh-Oh-N-Tee-Tee and see what kind of response you get; this is sure to get at least one member to run out for another 12-Pack of Oldfrothnslosh!
You're right except for one word you omitted. I say "I'm in On30 that runs on HO standard gauge track." The same goes for HOn30 which uses N standard gauge track or Nn3 which uses Z standard gauge track. With Fn3 (1:20.3), the custom is to say it runs on #1 gauge track. Since #1 gauge is one of the oldest scales still in use, the common use of the term "#1 gauge" in place of "#1 scale" has become commonplace to mean 1:32 standard gauge track (45mm), like Kleenex is a generic term for tissue.