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"Long time gone" - switching long spur lines.

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"Long time gone" - switching long spur lines.
Posted by Dave-the-Train on Sunday, April 29, 2007 1:46 PM

My interest is mid 80s so I'm looking at a local with cuts of cars for various sidings, spurs and even the far end of the trip and beyond.  It's still "caboose on the back" working.

Several set-outs and pick-ups have already been made at straight forward sidings and short spurs.  The RR is doing pretty well (for a change) so there's 40 or so cars in the consist.

The train arrives at a long spur for which it has two cuts to set out way down the spur before bringing back a single cut of cars.

My question is this:-

What are the scenarios for dealing with both parts of what is going on...

1. Most of the train needs to be left behind (maybe the track is poor on the spur)

2. The loco(s) and cuts of cars need to work the spur.

I know that the left-behind part of the train might occupy the Main (with permission) or be put in a siding.  It may even be left in the start of the spur.

BUT... what goes on about crew for working the switch moves along the spur?

Would both parts of the train need a caboose... or?

Do they ride the loco(s)?

Is the caboose taken along the spur?  (In which case what is done about looking after the train left behind - especially if it is left on the Main)?

Would there ever be two cabooses - allowing for the crew to be split... maybe conductor staying wth the train while brakemen go along for the switch moves?

I guess that there's several ways of doing it.  My era is specifically the 1980s and (as usual) I'm somewhere west of Chicago...

Any ideas, memories, Rules, whatever from anywhere would be interesting...

TIA

Cool [8D]

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Posted by jimrice4449 on Sunday, April 29, 2007 2:00 PM
Been there.  Done that.   If the switching at the end of the spur involved trailing switches, the caboose would be left behind (and, chances are, with the conducter who would work on his wheel report).   If the switching involved facing point moves, the cars would be shoved, ALWAYS w/ the junior crewmember (which tended to be me) dangling from the front of the first car to flag crossings and line switches.
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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:23 PM

Dave,Heres the way we would handle that on the PRR/PC and later on the C&O under Chessie/CSX.

We would leave the cars we didn't need in a passing siding.We would not leave cars sitting on the main for any reason because the amount of work we would be doing..We would take the caboose with us rather then leave it behind.Also if we was making a shove the cabin/caboose would be place as the end car on the  shove.That way we could protect the shove and use the caboose whistle at crossings along with flag protection..Also recall hanging on cars for any length of time and your arms and legs give out.Now on the other hand on the PRR we would ride the roof of the car or inside of a gon.Some would sit on the top edge of the gon as well.Of course this was a big NO-NO.

Also on the PRR we would use 2 cabooses if we had several reverse moves to make.

Every conductor I work with went with us up the industrial spur.You see if there was a problem he could take care of it and of course he would have to give account of his where abouts in the event of a accident or derailment.

I  can hear it now:

Superintendent:And where was you at Conductor Brown when the derailment happen?

Conductor Brown..Well,huh,I was huh, sitting in the caboose 5 miles from the accident..

Superintendent WHAT??!! YOU WASN'T WITH YOUR TRAIN???!! Shock [:O]Angry [:(!]

 

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by dehusman on Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:19 PM

Depends on what you mean by a "long spur". 

Normally if it is less than a mile they will just take the engines and cars to be spotted back on the spur.

If there are runarounds or situations where they can drop cars by at either end and its more than a mile, they may not take a caboose.

If they can't drop cars by, there aren't runarounds and its well over a mile back on the spur, they may take the caboose.

If its over a mile and there aren't any grade crossings they might not take a caboose.

There wouldn't normally be two cabooses.  They might have the engineer, and both brakemen, if they had 2 brakemen, work the spur and the conductor might stay on the caboose.  Or they all might go down the spur.  Could work either way.  If they had only 1 brakeman they probably took the conductor and brakeman down the spur and left the rest of the train unmanned.

Dave H.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:13 PM

Dave H,For the record on the PRR/PC we had 5 man crew.Engineer,Fireman,2 brakemen and conductor..On the C&O we had a 4 man crew..Engineer,2 Brakeman and Conductor.

2 cabin cars was used on the PRR on at least 3 urban locals in Columbus(Oh).The normal was one on other urban locals.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:49 PM

Since D-the-T said he was in the 1980's, west of Chicago, I was going by typical crew sizes then and there.  There were very few "full crews" by then, most had gone away. 

During the '80's the cabooses started to disappear.  By the end of the '80's the cabooses on through freights were pretty much gone west of the Mississippi.  They were retired as fast as the railroads could get shipments of EOT's.  Every other small town along ended up with a caboose in the town square bu the 1990's.

Dave H.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Monday, April 30, 2007 5:34 PM

I guess also there could be some confusion based on terms.

When you say "spur", in my mind that implies a relatively short track
(mile or less) used to serve industrial customers.  In some prototype
timetables spurs may be called "business tracks".  A little bit longer is
an industrial lead which can be several miles long, but is primarily for
serving industrial companies on spurs off the industrial lead.  It is a
fairly "new" term (post 1970's).   There are branches, which can be
hundreds of miles long, but are usually a secondary route.  Some roads
call them "secondaries".  All the lengths are relative and there is no
firm definition as to which is which, unless they are designated as such
in the timetable.

There are "subdivisions" which are portions of a division, normally major
routes.  Some roads have both branches and subdivisions, some only
subdivisions.  And just to confuse things, industrial leads, branches and
subdivisions all have main tracks.  Don't confuse main track with "main
line".  Main line is a slang term for a primary route.  It is very rarely
used by prototype N American railroads.  Main track is the track or tracks
that runs through yards and between stations.  So even though someplace
isn't a "main line" it can still have a "main track".

If you are talking about the CNW double track east-west line west of
Chicago, I doubt that in the 1980's a train would have left the rear
portion sitting on the main "for a long time" to go switch industries.
There were just too many trains, somewhere in the 30-50 trains a day
(total both ways) range, more if it was in the commuter district. Probably
if it were more than 20 min or so, the train would have to clear the main.
 Since that was current of traffic ATC (automatic train control) cab
signal territory with no wayside signals, it wasn't just a matter of
swinging the trains over to the other main like CTC.  They had to get
permission to run against the current of traffic, etc.

Any particular place west of Chicago you are focusing on?  Chicago to
Clinton, Clinton to Boone, Boone to Mo Valley?

Dave H.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 8:06 PM
 dehusman wrote:

Since D-the-T said he was in the 1980's, west of Chicago, I was going by typical crew sizes then and there.  There were very few "full crews" by then, most had gone away. 

During the '80's the cabooses started to disappear.  By the end of the '80's the cabooses on through freights were pretty much gone west of the Mississippi.  They were retired as fast as the railroads could get shipments of EOT's.  Every other small town along ended up with a caboose in the town square bu the 1990's.

Dave H.

Tell me something I don't know..FRED stole my job.Evil [}:)]Angry [:(!]

I was using the PRR as a example as I am sure that lasted well into the CR era as it did during the PC years.I have no doubts other roads may have use 2 cabooses on urban locals to include the CSX merger roads.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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