OK I know the evil of a 18" turn and a Big Boy should not be on it, but a last I still have one. Tender starts to tip with a modest drag of around 19 cars. They are easy rolling stock and meets NMRA specks. I have but the tender on the scales yet but 99% sure it will be in speck.
On the other hand my BLI Class J will drag its brains out on the same line. I have gone up to 40 cars with no string? My BLI M1a will drag 30 cars with no string. Remember I and posting about the tender's not the rolling stock!
All my other Steamers have 8 wheel tenders where the Big Boy has 14 wheels. Could that be the problem?
I know, get rid of the 18" turns but I do bench work slowely.
If I add weight to the tender how do I weight down the axles? If I open the tender where would you add weight? From the manual looks like there could be room on the speak box.
Thanks folks.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken wrote: OK I know the evil of a 18" turn and a Big Boy should not be on it, but a last I still have one. Tender starts to tip with a modest drag of around 19 cars. They are easy rolling stock and meets NMRA specks. I have but the tender on the scales yet but 99% sure it will be in speck. On the other hand my BLI Class J will drag its brains out on the same line. I have gone up to 40 cars with no string? My BLI M1a will drag 30 cars with no string. Remember I and posting about the tender's not the rolling stock! All my other Steamers have 8 wheel tenders where the Big Boy has 14 wheels. Could that be the problem? I know, get rid of the 18" turns but I do bench work slowely. If I add weight to the tender how do I weight down the axles? If I open the tender where would you add weight? From the manual looks like there could be room on the speak box. Thanks folks. Cuda Ken
A little weight in the tender would probably help on your 18" . I installed a tsunami in one of my Genesis tenders and you can find a fair amount of space for weight if you are cleaver.
By the way, the Union Pacific has some of the same problems with the centipede tenders on tight curves like Y's. I have one picture in Laramine of the 844's tender with the right rear tender wheel on top of the rail. It took an hour or more to get it back on the track.
As a band-aid approach, adding weight is going to help, but the question is, "How much?' As in, how much weight, how much will it control its rise up onto the rails? I have never towed more than 10 cars behind my Lionel Challenger, but when I looked at the reviews and tips on Tony's Train Exchange about that particular model, the reviewer said he removed a single block weight from the tender since it was metal and already quite beefy. I did the same, and have not had problems.
Perhaps I should place all my heavyweights and all my rolling stock behind it and see what happens.
Have you checked to see if the coupler on the tender hits the end of the coupler box when you go around the curve? Also, is the tender coupled to an ore car or short hopper car. These cars will not swing out as much on a curve as a longer car would. If coupling the tender to a longer car would solve the problem and you want to still pull short cars, then shifting the coupler box closer to the center by only a 1/16th of an inch might solve your problems. There would be other methods (such as taking a smalll amount of material of the sides of the shank) that might remedy the situation.
Tender weight, definitely - the BLI tenders tend to be quite heavy, solid metal bottom plus two large speakers. But also check the couplers, and make sure the truck is not pushing against the tender due to extreme swing. The fixed wheels should have side to side play to help negotiate tighter curves, but 18" might be pushing it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hmm,
I understood it that he had a BLI J, not that the 4000 was a BLI.
I have a NYC S-1b Niagara with centipede tender... it doesn't like anything tighter than 22" curves without modification (removal of the last axle...)
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Ken:
Centipedes are very tricky little devils, due to the 4-10-0 wheel arrangement. You've got 5 sets of wheels under basically one truck, and there's only so much side-play that can be built into them. I've got 3 locos with Centipedes, one Genesis Rio Grande 4-6-6-4, and two brass Akane Yellowstones, and even on wide radius curves such as my Yuba River Sub (34"-36"), I have to be kind of careful as to how many cars I put behind those powerful locos without getting a 'stringling' effect in the tenders on several of my curves on steep (2.4%) grades at speed.
I'd really say that 18" radius is cutting it VERY close with any kind of long train, and with that small a radius, I don't think weighting the tender is going to cure it very well. Your only other alternative might be to subsitute rimless wheels for the second and third sets of the fixed truck on the tender.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I had a Bachmann Niagara that had problems with derailing. I reomoved the center wheels of the tender and it stopped derailing. Problem was the engine keept derailing so I returned it to K-10 trains and used it as the down payment on the BLI Class J # 611 a week before they became cheap!
Tom, do you think removing a few axles would help? Do they make un flange wheels for the tender?
For the heck of it I stuck 2oz of wheel weights on the tender coal load and it has helped. Dropped the drag down to 19 cars and is doing well. But why have a Big Boy pull a Heavy Mike's light load?
On the car behinde the Big Boy, it is a 54' cover hopper by Tyco that has Kadee #5's chassis mounted NMRA coupler height, worked trucks with PK33" wheels and little over the NMRA weight specks.
Thanks for all the fine answers.
Hum, 2 pounds of lead shoot. Cuda Ken
cudaken wrote: I had a Bachmann Niagara that had problems with derailing. I reomoved the center wheels of the tender and it stopped derailing. Problem was the engine keept derailing so I returned it to K-10 trains and used it as the down payment on the BLI Class J # 611 a week before they became cheap! Tom, do you think removing a few axles would help? Do they make un flange wheels for the tender? For the heck of it I stuck 2oz of wheel weights on the tender coal load and it has helped. Dropped the drag down to 19 cars and is doing well. But why have a Big Boy pull a Heavy Mike's light load? On the car behinde the Big Boy, it is a 54' cover hopper by Tyco that has Kadee #5's chassis mounted NMRA coupler height, worked trucks with PK33" wheels and little over the NMRA weight specks. Thanks for all the fine answers. Hum, 2 pounds of lead shoot. Cuda Ken
Ken--
Removing a few axles might help, but you probably wouldn't like the looks of the tender with them missing. Instead of a 54' car behind the tender, though, you might want to try a regular 40-footer. Maybe a boxcar with good weight--like Accurail, retrofitted with 33" metal wheels (P2K's fit very well, so will Intermountain, and the Intermountains have a little more 'heft' to them.).
As to the tender--I can't remember the wheel diameter right off the bat (I think 36", but I could be wrong), but you might check with NWSL--they carry replacement wheel sets for just about everything, and they might also put out blank (rimless) wheelsets. Also, just removing two sets of wheels might affect your pickup, since I know that my Challenger picks up from both sets of drivers PLUS some of the tender wheels. It might get a little complicated, but you may have to go that route to keep the tender from 'stringling.'
Like I said, even on my wide-radius curves, I have to be careful. Just seems to be the nature of the beast.
I will try a 40' box car, have one that I used on long drags that is a round 3oz over NMRA standers. On a side note my M1A is doing a 40 car darg, Athearn should hang there head in shame. Little M1A wopping on a Big Boy.
cudaken wrote: I will try a 40' box car, have one that I used on long drags that is a round 3oz over NMRA standers. On a side note my M1A is doing a 40 car darg, Athearn should hang there head in shame. Little M1A wopping on a Big Boy. Cuda Ken
Now, now--your M1A tender, long as it is, has TWO swiveling trucks, remember. Your centipede doesn't.
Actually, I've run into this before. I have a Rivarossi Allegheney that can pull the paint off the walls, and if you count the wheels on the tender of the 2-6-6-6, it has the same number as the Centipede. But the wheels are split between two swiveling trucks, instead of a 4-wheel swiveling truck and a fixed 10-wheel trailer. Now, I'm not saying that the plastic Allegheney will pull more cars than my two brass Yellowstones (no contest, BTW), but it's the setting of the wheels on two tenders of equal length that work either for or against your particular radius.
I've also thought of another possible solution--get hold of a little reamer called "The Tool" and very carefully work on the 3 center wheelset holes of your Centipede casting. Even widening as little as 1/32" from them might improve your center wheel flexibility in that fixed truck portion of the Centipede enough to cure the problem. But be VERY careful. One or two turns will probably do it.
Tom I have a T-100 Exxact Scoket Tool. Guess it is the thing. Use it to clean out the boosters so PK wheels roll free. Tonight while I was cleaning the wheels, the tender wheels did feel tight comparied to my rolling stock. But it could be the power contacts that makes them tight.
I am a little afraid to pull it a part and do anything to it, worried about voiding the warranty and all.
Just did a very light pull with no weights and there was no string for the member that asked if it did.
Big Boy still has the stock Bachmann spring loaded coupler on it. But I don't see that making the tender tip.
If I have it all over to do again I might not have bought the Big Boy. But it was my quest and still glad I have it.