Plastic wheels vs metal

[roypea]

I have a small set up, still under construction and I may read too much in here.  That said, I've looked at all my fairly cheap rolling stock (HO) of about 40 units.  I have about 15 units of passenger heavy weights, truck mounted horn-hook couplers and various wheel sets.  I'm leaviing the subject of the funny looking cars on 18R for the other posts because I have the space that I have and I have always been facinated by passenger cars.  Anyway:

My question(s) is this, are metal wheels obvious?  I know that the shiny ones are metal, but are some of the black ones metal as well?  How do I tell which is which, since I assume they are non-magnetic, right?  Most of the rest of my rolling stock is stuff out of sets or bought used, Life Like and such, my assumption here is plastic wheels and horn hooks all around, but again how do I tell.  The last group of cars are Athern kits with probably McHenry couplers, but what about these wheels?

Sorry to be a little dense, and I did do a search, but I don't think I word my quieries right, I get some pretty incredible, informative, accurate, but off topic results, thus the comment that I may read too much.

Couplers are all being upgraded, but I'm not sure where to go with the wheel sets.

Thanks again for your assistance, this place is incredible for us newbies.

Roypea

[loathar]

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1088353/ShowPost.aspx

Here. We just did a thread on this last week.

[tstage]

Roypea,

Some are obvious (shiny), while others are not-so obvious (black or anodized).  Plastic wheels will become the most obvious when you have to clean your track more often.  Plastic degrades and will dirty up your metal locomotive wheels to the point where they either hesitate or stop frequently.  Metal wheels keep you track cleaner, longer.

Roypea, you can replace just the wheels (instead of the entire wheel set) by popping them out of the trucks.  You also have to be sure you get the correct size.  Most rolling stock will have 33" wheels.  Passenger cars and some modern rolling stock will have 36" wheels.  They also come in ribbed and flat backs.  The ribbed were used on older cars (pre-1937?), before air brakes became standard.

Tom 

[Don Gibson]

iF YOU CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE

by looking, feeling, listening, or biting (popular old coin remedy);

Try a cheap meter, set on 'Ohms'. Some sell for as low as $12 - or less on sale.

They're useful for many things electrical - such as how many volts you track is actually providing @ your location, and your knob setting .

[roypea]

well duh!

the meter test, thanks.

looking at the Mark1's from the previous thread, I noticed they were already the corrected models, like mine.

Thanks

roypea

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Plastic feels like plastic, metal, anodized or not, feels like metal. Even I, with numb hands, can tell the difference.

[NeO6874]

Roypea,

Some are obvious (shiny), while others are not-so obvious (black or anodized).  Plastic wheels will become the most obvious when you have to clean your track more often.  Plastic degrades and will dirty up your metal locomotive wheels to the point where they either hesitate or stop frequently.  Metal wheels keep you track cleaner, longer.

Roypea, you can replace just the wheels (instead of the entire wheel set) by popping them out of the trucks.  You also have to be sure you get the correct size.  Most rolling stock will have 33" wheels.  Passenger cars and some modern rolling stock will have 36" wheels.  They also come in ribbed and flat backs.  The ribbed were used on older cars (pre-1937?), before air brakes became standard.

Tom 

I think ribbed-back whels were oficially banned from interchange service in the early-mid '40s (about '44ish?), however they could still ride on "home" trackage...

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I think ribbed-back whels were oficially banned from interchange service in the early-mid '40s (about '44ish?), however they could still ride on "home" trackage...

One of my first HO train sets in the mid 60's had ribbed-back wheels.

[back_pack]

I think ribbed-back whels were oficially banned from interchange service in the early-mid '40s (about '44ish?), however they could still ride on "home" trackage...

"Ribbed wheels were outlawed for interchange service in 1958." According to Model Railroader at http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=261

Andy

[NeO6874]

ah, very good then

 

now I can make my (planned) layout's time period set in the later '40s-early '50s and still get away with having a few ribbed-back wheelsets here and there. 

[tstage]

I think ribbed-back whels were oficially banned from interchange service in the early-mid '40s (about '44ish?), however they could still ride on "home" trackage...

"Ribbed wheels were outlawed for interchange service in 1958." According to Model Railroader at http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=261

Andy

Okay.  Well, that begs the question then: When did flat-back wheels make their introduction onto the prototype?  And, once they were introduced, was there a decision made or a timeline drawn that said either:

1. All NEW cars manufactured from this point on would be outfitted with flat-back wheels?
2. All EXISTING cars could still use ribbed-back wheels only up to a certain date? (1958, in this case)
   

This would help fill in the picture a little more clearly for me.  Thanks.

Tom

[NeO6874]

Did a quick search around, found these descriptions on Kadee's website (so I trust their accuracy) 

The Bettendorf T-section truck was introduced in the '20s (Prior to this was the Andrews truck, ca. 1900(ish)).  It was all cast metal, and used ribbed wheels.  The Bettendorf Double Truss truck was introduced in the '40s,had smooth-backed wheels, and was the "replacement" of sorts for the Andrews truck (retired from Interchange Service in '41) .

So with that, I would conclude that all cars made from the '40s on (well, up to the introduction of the ASF roller bearing ones) used these trucks - so the "dividing year" between ribbed-back and flat-back wheels would be probably '40-'42 or so.  At least for new cars, the older ones could have probably been retrofitted with either the T-Section truck (still ribbed) or the Double Truss at the RR's discretion. 

 

Edit: In the '20s there was also the Vulcan Double Truss truck, and the PRR had their own style/class of truck (the 2D-58 50-Ton Freight Truck).   Both styles of truck still used ribbed back wheels.

[loathar]

Cool. This has answered some questions I had about wheels.

When did they stop using friction bearing trucks? Would you have seen any of these in the late 70's early 80's?

[NeO6874]

The Double Truss truck (again, according to the little blurb Kadee has about it) was not retired from Interchange Service until 1993.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I'm not sure when friction bearing trucks went out of service, but here's info on when roller bearings were introduced by the Timken Roller Bearing Company. They commissioned the construction of a boxcar  in 1943 that was first seen at the 1948 Chicago Rail Fair as a demonstrator. It was a rolling advertisement for a new way of reducing friction - roller bearings. The car's trucks lacked the then common axle journal boxes, with the bearings mounted on the axles between the wheels. The first locomotive to use roller bearings made by Timken was Timken 1111, a 4-8-4 built by ALCO in 1930. It operated in regular service on the Nickle Plate until it was retired in 1957 and scrapped.

[tstage]

Found out from the following link that roller bearings became a requirement on all NEW freight cars in 1963:

http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=210

Tom 

[loathar]

Thanks Tom

I wonder how that applied to cars that were rebuilt after 63? I would think you would still see friction up to the early 80's.

[BRAKIE]

Thanks Tom

I wonder how that applied to cars that were rebuilt after 63? I would think you would still see friction up to the early 80's.

Indeed you did but,as the cars went through the shops for  the older trucks was replace with the new roller bearing trucks..A era came to a end with the roller bearing trucks..That was the era of the car knocker.

[doctorwayne]

Roypea,

Some are obvious (shiny), while others are not-so obvious (black or anodized).  Plastic wheels will become the most obvious when you have to clean your track more often.  Plastic degrades and will dirty up your metal locomotive wheels to the point where they either hesitate or stop frequently.  Metal wheels keep you track cleaner, longer.

Tom 

If your plastic wheels are out-of-round, or not square on the axle, replace them.  However, I've personally seen nothing to indicate that plastic wheels cause dirty track, despite numerous threads on this topic.  My current layout, a DC-powered, around-the-room style in about 550 sq. ft., has been in operation for about 15 years, with probably 90% plastic wheels, and the only time I have ever cleaned track is after having done scenery in an area.  The trains, usually steamers, run without hesitation, at prototypical speeds, and with lots of switching activity, too.  The newer metal wheels do roll better than most plastic ones, although that's not something that concerns me too much. 

Wayne

[Anonymous]

iF YOU CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE...use a magnent.

 

I think one is as good as the other, I have both as well as horn and Kadee type couplers. All of them work for me.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

iF YOU CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE...use a magnent.

 

I think one is as good as the other, I have both as well as horn and Kadee type couplers. All of them work for me.

Not all metal wheels are magnetic. For example, nickle plated alloys, nickle silver wheelsets.