Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I have a Shinohara curved turnout from wayback and, without measuring, I would think that those radii are far too small. The inside curve might just make 24".
Don't forget that if you want to throw a spur off to the left in a right hand curve you can do so with a right hand turnout - using the curved track as the "main" and the straight as the spur. If you do this you sometimes have to go up a number to get the connections you want, This looks good without the complications of a curved switch.
For a crossover on a curve combine a RH with a LH.
You also get an advantage that you can use some of the really sharp switches... so long as you locos and stock will get round them.
I must have been one involved in that discussion back several months now. I used #7.5 which were supposed to be 32"/26"...although I honestly can't recall the details when I called and was dealing with the fellow. He looked it up while I was on the phone, and I felt confident that they would be very close to what I needed for my minimum 28" on the main and 24" elsewhere for the sake of my 2-10-4. When I got them, and inserted them where I needed them along broad curves, I found that the inner (diverging) routes were closer to 22-23", quite unsatisfactory.
They came in what I feel were proper packaging, and their numbers were printed as #7.5, so unless he misread his information catalogue, I feel that the advertised radii were not correct. So, I had to cut the small web sections between the ties on the inner route, and on the outer, I cut the power strips, and had to remove small sections in the cut webbing under the outer rails on both routes. That allowed me to force both curved sections outward, past the frog, to extend the radii. It worked quite well...I think I got my inners to just over 24", and the outers are close to 34". No probs with frog angle, either.
The radii of Walther's Shinohara curved turnouts as listed in the 2007 catalog are incorrect.
Example: a number 7.5 curved is listed with 28 inch inside and 32 inch outside radii. Don Z called Walther's about this and the person admitted they were wrong and they had not updated this yet. Don made measurements of each to determine the correct radii. They are:
#7 is 20.5" inside and 28" outside
#7.5 is 24" inside and 32" outside
#8 is 30" inside and 37" outside
Regards,
Tom
Tom Bryant_MR wrote: The radii of Walther's Shinohara curved turnouts as listed in the 2007 catalog are incorrect. Example: a number 7.5 curved is listed with 28 inch inside and 32 inch outside radii. Don Z called Walther's about this and the person admitted they were wrong and they had not updated this yet. Don made measurements of each to determine the correct radii. They are:#7 is 20.5" inside and 28" outside#7.5 is 24" inside and 32" outside#8 is 30" inside and 37" outside Regards,
Thanks Tom. If the #7 has a 20.5" inner, do you know what the inner of a 6.5" is? I guess I could always redo the whole curve if I have to.
I can't speak to the #8 curved turnouts, but I do have examples of the #6.5, #7, and #7.5 at various locations on my layout. The curves of all these conform to the listed measurements when I rechecked them just now against my set of Arbour Models track templates, which come in various radii and which also match up with the curves I've laid out with a radius bar/compass. For my new staging yard, I dropped the #7.5 right into an existing 28" radius curve. It fit perfectly and the diverging route matches with the 32" curve template.
I've got four Sinohara code 100 curved turnouts on my RR--#8's. Outside radius matches perfectly with my 36" max radius, inside radius is about a 32". All work extremely well, but you have to do some sliding along the track to position the frog properly. So far, they've been operating about 6 years without any major problems, but be sure to clean the points about twice a year with contact cleaner--they have a tiny bronze slider that contacts UNDER the rail when you throw them, and they can get picky.
But I've never had a derailment on them, even with their unusually long frogs.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
That puts me in number 8 Curved territory then; what with that inner radius being more than 28"
How many degrees of curvature out of a full circle are those going to take?
Safety Valve--
I'm not quite sure I understand your question, but I would think it would depend pretty much on your outer radius. My inner radius is 34", but even with the 32" inner radius on the turnout, I simply add a piece of 'transitional' flex-track 4-5" long to bring the inner radius back to 34". It's hardly noticeable. And as I said, since my outer radius is already 36", the curved turnout doesn't interfere at all.
But I would think all of this is going to depend on both your inner and outer radii. As I said, I hope I understood your question, but I might not have.
Tom Bryant_MR wrote:The radii of Walther's Shinohara curved turnouts as listed in the 2007 catalog are incorrect. Example: a number 7.5 curved is listed with 28 inch inside and 32 inch outside radii. Don Z called Walther's about this and the person admitted they were wrong and they had not updated this yet. Don made measurements of each to determine the correct radii. They are:#7 is 20.5" inside and 28" outside#7.5 is 24" inside and 32" outside#8 is 30" inside and 37" outside Regards,
Thanks Tom, this is valuable information.
Joe
Thanks Tom this is really great info.
This rather supports what I thought for a while. The #6.5's (I orignially had three on my mainline - I eliminated one because it caused too many problems) appear much tighter than the 20" inner radius published. I suspected they were closer to 18" and this would appear to confirm it.
twhite wrote: Safety Valve--I'm not quite sure I understand your question, but I would think it would depend pretty much on your outer radius. My inner radius is 34", but even with the 32" inner radius on the turnout, I simply add a piece of 'transitional' flex-track 4-5" long to bring the inner radius back to 34". It's hardly noticeable. And as I said, since my outer radius is already 36", the curved turnout doesn't interfere at all. But I would think all of this is going to depend on both your inner and outer radii. As I said, I hope I understood your question, but I might not have.Tom
You understood me well enough. What I did not express was the fact that I will have to find room with these huge turnouts. Im determined to make the curves in the plan work in some way and if I gotta use these monsters to do it, so be it.
I think it's pretty much agreed that Shinohara built their radii to match the outside curve, and inner radius 'is what it is' - (or if you have multiples), they 'are' what they 'are'.
cwclark wrote:Also keep in mind that Shinohara is a code 100 rail and Walthers is the code 83....made that mistake before...chuck
Don Gibson wrote: I think it's pretty much agreed that Shinohara built their radii to match the outside curve, and inner radius 'is what it is' - (or if you have multiples), they 'are' what they 'are'.
That's what I was wondering. If the inner on a #6.5 is closer to 18" that will be too tight. Looks like I'll have to change my 24" curve to something bigger and go to the #7 or #7.5. I can just wait till I get the turnout and modify the track to fit it. That turn is one that kinked when the weather warmed up so I'd have to do some MOW work on it anyhow. Now if I can find a shop that has one in stock....
I found http://www.traintrack.net/ to be helpful when I was highly needy of a double-slip turnout (or thought I was,...it sits on my shelf still).
Give blue-ridge hobbies a call. Also, Internet Hobbies had the #7.5's that I used.
Safety Valve wrote: That puts me in number 8 Curved territory then; what with that inner radius being more than 28"How many degrees of curvature out of a full circle are those going to take?
Safety Value, the #8 WS curved turnout is a little over 18 inches from the points to the end of the "straight thru" leg. On a 37 inch circle that 18 inches would consume about 29-30 degrees.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Comment from your resident tracklaying fanatic...
This whole discussion is the best argument I've seen lately for building your own turnouts from raw rail on wood ties!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on hand-laid specialwork)
rrebell:
Walthers has has imported (and has exclusive distribution on) Shinohara-made code 83 turnouts, that are DCC 'friendly', period (Insulated frog).
Shinohara's OTHER distributer imports the code 100 & code 70 power-routing types. There are contracts to honor, and renewal date options.
If WALTHERS decides to contract their Code 83 elsewhere, they can ... and if Shinohara decides to NOT renew, they can - after the contract is fulfilled.
MY GUESS is -whether the Code 83 contract will be renewed or not- that Shinohara may change their design to insulated frogs, or jumpered frogs (like Peco), with new pricing. (Our declining dollar buys less and less).
CURRENT BUYING HABITS seem to favor 'dead frogs' for simplicity's sake. Atlas' & Kato's turnouts use all 'dead' frogs, and engine makers are now producing engines with improved wheel pickup.
Re 'Curved turnouts: "Numbered" turnouts are a creation of our NMRA. Overseas makers use METRIC dimensions and curetures that don't exactly match ours. They work.
Even 'numbered' turnouts are approximate. The NMRA 'numbered' products are a ratio of departure, but the only curved part are the points. TWO different makes of switches will use the same number, but still have different point lengths. How is that?
I repeat: The only curved part of a numbered turnout is the points.