I asked this somewhere already and got a bit of insight and feedback and link to some reading, thank you to those that took a minute to help. (excuse my ignorance in the forum as I'm totally new to this HO model railroading and related sites).
My boys and I have set up a new HO train set. We have already expanded it a couple times to cover two 4x8 boards. Now I have put in a reversing loop and need to understand how to wire it up. I have the 8'-10' of reversing loop insulated at both ends. Per the previous advice, I bought a package of four DPDT switches (Miniatronics Corp. 5amp 120vAC/28vDC) from the LHS (I hope they are right...they look like the schematic I saw).
Now, do I wire up one DPDT switch to just the reversing loop? Or, one DPDT switch to the reversing loop and one to the main railroad line? Not really sure how this all should work.
Any advise? Any links or drawings you can share with me.
I'll try to attach the scematics I found...they didn't have any real instructions other than the pic. But maybe you could mark them up to show me what I'm suppossed to be doing here.
Thanks a ton
CooHead
Shoot, how do I attach a picture?
If you google wiring a DPDT, you'll find diagrams showing how to use them.
The central two terminal posts are for power to the DPDT, and they are directly from your bus.
Choose which of the outer pairs you want, and wire that pair to the individual rails within the gapped reversing loop..in other words, somewhere along the rails between the gaps. The other two posts are to be wired to the first outer pair that we just talked about, but cross the wires diagonally to the opposite post...kitty corner.
Does that make sense? The switch is designed to reverse polarity when you go from extreme one side to extreme other side as you throw the toggle. So, you want one of the outer pairs to be polarizing the rails one way, and when you throw the switch, the wires from the other pair will be activated, but you cross them to provide the change in polarity, which will travel along the feeders from the other side's terminals to the rails.
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/wiring.html
Great, thanks.
That schematic from .org was what I was pointed to earlier. It gets me pretty far and makes some sense. But as you can see, that picture shows two DPDT switches, each wired a bit differently. Am I suppossed to have one DPDT switch on the whole main line of my railroad and another DPDT switch on the turn-around loop? When the train is on the turn around loop, I'll flip the DPDT switch that controls the entire lay-out so it's ready for the train to come back on line going the other way. Once it's on the main line (running the opposite way) I'll throw the DPDT switch on the turn around loop so it's ready for the train to come into it when I want to go back the other direction. IS that how it works? Two DPDT switches?
Or
Main railroad on standard controller hook up and just the turn around loop on one of these DPDT switches?
Thanks for taking a minute of your day to help me here.
You only need one DPDT toggle switch, connected to the track within the turnaround loop; however, while the train is in the loop you must stop it, throw the toggle switch, and also reverse the power pack's direction switch so the main layout's track is reversed, and then proceed through the loop.
When you reverse the polarity to the turnaround loop's track your train will run backwards if you don't reverse the direction on the power pack.
I see your confusion. They are showing one switch, thrown in the two different directions to show how it works. So here's the thing, if you put the DPDT on the reversing section, when you throw the switch you have to change the direction of the loco from the power pack at the same time, or it will turn around. (We could go into how DCC handles this, but that's probably for another day).
EDIT: What he said
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
AWESOME!!Thanks Guys!
Makes perfect sense now. Just the fact that I have to stop the loco, flip the switch that controls the turn-around section of track and throttle up the loco in the opposite direction throttle to net same direction outta the loop...when it gets to the main line, the controller throttle will be "the wrong way" which is what I want.
Great thanks
I'll go hook it up now :) (excited)
I'm obviously a rookie here. I'm pretty good at E R/C planes and helis and cars, but the HO trian set is new to me and the boys. But just like when I started R/C some years ago and found a site like this for R/C, I asked and learned a lot.
If it's not to rudimentry for ya'll, I'll ask another question: I remember a car de-coupler device years ago when I was a kid and had a big HO train set. It was a little insert in a straight section of track. It consisted of to little spring steel wires. When the train (anc couplers) backed over the spring steel wire rods, it "un coupled" the cars. Stop there and pull away and leave the cars. It didn't uncouple if going forward. We had one at the start of each dead end spur and could back some cars onto the spur and leave them there.
I aqsked the LHS lady for something like this and she was stearing me to a whole electronic/magnetic system and specific couplers. I remember the simple mechanical thing that the couplers ran through.
Any advice on what they heck I'm trying to remember? A lot has changed in 30 years.
Thanks all.
Try running your train manually through the reversing loop. You can do it if you are quick. Just wire up both loops with DC power and ram across the cutouts. You will begin to see what is needed switchwise. It is a more difficult problem to design a reversing loop where you can enter from EITHER direction. If you stick with entering from just ONE direction, you can buy a simple DC reversing circuit and wire it in, or you can install the switches. Then you wont have to throw any switches. If you want to enter the loop from EITHER direction, things get a bit more complicated, but it can be done. Done with switches, you really need lights to tell you if the reverse loop is different or the same (although its possible to memorize it, I guess). With DCC, reversing loops are actually simpler, BTW.
Anyway, try running the train through the loop "manually". You will have to reverse the transformer as you cross ONE of the cutouts. The other you will not have to reverse it. It changes, depending on how you enter the loop.
Have fun!
You're talking about an uncoupling ramp for horn-hook couplers. I don't think anyone uses them anymore. Horn-hook couplers look hideous and tend to derail a train when you try to push it backwards because of the way they exert sideways pressure on the car. Most of us change out the horn-hooks for Kadee, McHenry, or one of the other brands of knuckle couplers. That's what the local hobby shop is trying to tell you.
I just looked through the Walthers 2006 HO catalog and cannot find an uncoupling ramp for horn-hook couplers. Atlas makes a piece of track with a device called a "Dead-End Uncoupler" but it doesn't look like the old uncoupling ramps that could be placed anywhere on the layout.
Yea Pilot, it's making sense now. I had a couple minute and ran downstairs and put the powered rail connectors through the track and table. Put the isolating rail connectors on both ends of the turn-around loop track. Got called up for tacos. Now to CubScouts.
But tonight I'll wire it up. Totally makes sense now.
CA. I guess I'm remembering old time stuff in regard to theose switches :) I'll upgrade at some point and get the magnetic uncouplers.
Thanks guys.C
CooHead wrote: AWESOME!!Thanks Guys!Makes perfect sense now. Just the fact that I have to stop the loco, flip the switch that controls the turn-around section of track and throttle up the loco in the opposite direction throttle to net same direction outta the loop...when it gets to the main line, the controller throttle will be "the wrong way" which is what I want.
You don't have to stop, just throw both the DPDT and the reverse switch at the same time.
Really?! I'd think it would have to perfectly timed to reverse the controller and flip the switch simultanously to net continued, smooth "forward" train movement. Seems it would have to be PERFECT timing.
Vail...you messin with the newby?
:)
Coo
Don't try throwing both switches with power applied to the track unless you like buying and installing new motors, because you could easily burn up a motor from the sudden power surges through the toggle switch and controller's reverse switch. Stop the train and then reverse the polarity and your trains will last much longer.
On my DC-powered layouts, I've found it MUCH simpler to use Atlas' reverse loop switch called a Controller. It provides for two-cab operation and comes with wiring and use instructions.
To use it, the reverse section is electically aligned with your mainline. Your train enters the reverse loop. WHILE THE TRAIN IS IN THE REVERSE LOOP, you flip the mainline switch to change polarity ON THE MAINLINE! The train exits the reverse loop with the mainline polarity now changed to match the direction of the train. You do not have to stop in the reversing section and flip multiple switches!
DCC is much simpler, but it costs a LOT more for the reverse module than the DC Controller.
Darrell, quiet...for now
dgwinup wrote: On my DC-powered layouts, I've found it MUCH simpler to use Atlas' reverse loop switch called a Controller. It provides for two-cab operation and comes with wiring and use instructions.To use it, the reverse section is electically aligned with your mainline. Your train enters the reverse loop. WHILE THE TRAIN IS IN THE REVERSE LOOP, you flip the mainline switch to change polarity ON THE MAINLINE! The train exits the reverse loop with the mainline polarity now changed to match the direction of the train. You do not have to stop in the reversing section and flip multiple switches!DCC is much simpler, but it costs a LOT more for the reverse module than the DC Controller.Have fun!Darrell, quiet...for now
Am I right that that is switching the mainline polarity just for that cab? The only trick then is that the reverse loop is now matching the mainline from the opposite direction from before, so if you want to enter from the same direction as you just did you need to switch the reverse loop polarity before you get back.
All of this gets to why I think DCC is really easier for starting out, and not hugely more expensive, but I don't really want to get into that discussion here!
Hi Coolhead,
As Darrel says, the DCC reverse loop modules are expensive ($40 each), but dpdt switching on a DC reverse loop requires perfect timing and can burn out motors, if you are not careful. We are planning a layout for the Hamburg Michigan Historical Museum that has two independent reverse loops at each end of the double track, As they say on the Reverse Loop Module package,"Reverse loop modules are primarily intended for DCC",(in which the loco direction of travel is independent of the track polarity. Since this railroad must run automatically, without any "Engineer" present, DCC is the only possible choice. My own DCC layout has six reverse loops and three wyes, each of which requires a Reverse Loop Module, so that four to six trains can operate independently. Someone may be able to help you with the required wiring for using a reverse loop module on a DC system. As to the question about uncouplers, I find that the Magnetic uncouplers are great. These two inch long strip magnets fit between the rails, and have "side to side" poles. When you stop a pair of freight cars over the strip, and back up slightly, the uncoupler opens. One can then gently push the car backward down the track (without it recoupling). The spring in the coupler returns the coupler to it's central position, so that it will only recouple by gently ramming the two cars together. Good luck Bob
Bob
Make life easy on yourself, DO NOT reverse the polarity to the loop if you are running DC.
Reverse the polarity of the MAIN LINE while the engine is in the loop. No hesitation, no timing issues and you can have a loop at each end.
It only takes one switch.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
larak wrote: Make life easy on yourself, DO NOT reverse the polarity to the loop if you are running DC.Reverse the polarity of the MAIN LINE while the engine is in the loop. No hesitation, no timing issues and you can have a loop at each end. It only takes one switch.Karl
That's what I thought, Karl, but when the topic seemed to lean toward DC ops, I just let them talk it out between them. My reply was geared toward DCC....obviously a bias.
Yea, that's how I was guessing it would work before I found this users group and asked. I guess it could still work that way and might even have some side benifits. But it is a bit more involved with two DSDP switches (one for main line one for turn around loop). It would net uninterrupted flow of the train to switch the main when on loop and loop when on main. I did get a package of four switches, so I might just hook it up that way.
But first, I'll wire up a switch to the loop section of track. Stop the train while in there, throw the DSDP switch and "reverse" the trian controller to continue to come around and outta the mountain. No big deal to stop in there and throw a switch and reverse direction on the controller.
If all goes well, I'll put a DSDP into the main layout power feed lines too. Then, whilst the train is in the mountain and on the loop, I'll throw the DSDP for the main line and the train can just continue running. At some point when it's out and about on the main line, I'll have to remember to throw the DSDP for the turna round loop so it's ready to accept the train whenever I want to go through the turan-around loop again.
Thanks all. Makes sense now. Good to have found this site and know there is a place to ask these newby questions. Like for the couplers. I'll have to look into upgradeing those to have the uncoupler option. Already thinking I'll probably get a better engine and controller at some point...the included ones in the $124 kit are pretty cheesy...but work for the boys and I.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Well, we can close this thread :)
It works fine :) Thanks all. Kind of a pain to solder those six little wires onto those six little leggs on the back of the switch...but all works well. I do have some soldering experience from my main hobby of electric R/C planes. I have a 8 planes and have had another dozen over the years (had is not an uncommon term in R/C flight).
Now I see how you might want a reversing loop at each end of a lay-out. Once I go through the reversing loop, I'm kinda stuck going that way. But it's all good. I'm learning. You all are helping. Thanks.
Just thought I'd give some feedback. I always like it when I help somebody in the RC Groups site on planes and they post back that it works (always post back when it's not working...but don't always hear when it does work and all is well).
So thanks to anybody and everybody that helped. I'm sure to be back here for some other issue that has me stumped in the future.